Thoughts on « why men cheat » video

[Etherial Cat]

22 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

 

The real premise here is that most men (70%-90%) will choose polyamory inevitably given the opportunity (or they will "cheat"), and even a greater percentage will find it hard to resist.

The premise here is that this assumption is false, not true.

The whole discussion has been revolving around this for pages now.

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Polyamory sounds attractive when you're leaving in a fantasy world but when you actually actualize it, it becomes a nightmare.

While I've never been into a polyamory myself, I've had to deal with situations of having multiple men being into me in the past. And managing others people expectations, potential heartbreak and desires is one of the worst experience I had romantically.

The human drama makes it terribly difficult to be authentic and you feel like an elephant in a china shop. Next to it, monogamy is a walk in the park. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Etherial Cat]

20 minutes ago, Kshantivadin said:

The entire premise of TRP gender dynamics is that females capitalise on their attraction in their youth and then settle down when older and their attraction capital is waning - which is what makes a lot of men feel cucked when they contemplate this.

Yes. 

I think that an important point to contemplate regarding this aspect is that physical attraction peak is occurring when a female is very young and totally inexperienced.  And it's only normal that at the beginning one makes poor choices which get refined with maturity.

So it's not because of the fact that the attraction capital is waning that they pick up another type of guy eventually. It's mainly because you don't do the same choice at 20 than you do at 35.

[Gregory1]

23 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Polyamory sounds attractive when you're leaving in a fantasy world but when you actually actualize it, it becomes a nightmare.

You only say and believe this because you are a woman. Thinking and feeling like this is wired in your genes.

Just imagine feeling the exact opposite way and you know what most men feel like (of course also wired in their genes)..

For men polyamory isn't a nightmare, it's heaven. Opposite way for most women mono is heaven - in both cases the genetic ground is determining what feels "right / wrong."

There is nothing right or wrong in mono / poly. It just is what it is.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gregory1

[Preety_India]

My dad never cheated on my mom.

Hmm.

Ladies don't believe bullshit. Lots of men who don't cheat. Choose the keepers and the ones who respect your loyalty.

All this "men will be men" are pure excuses for not doing inner work.

Everyone can control their biological impulses.. Emotional impulses are even stronger.

Be with men who are sensitive to woman's needs. The rest can be ignored because they won't bring you happiness.

 

 

[Humble]

By the world social status, 2% percent of men cheat vs 13 % of women.

The biggest thing for a woman I think is worrying about if a man truly values her presence and some instincts are natural because of what woman or man wants to be valued in a relationship. Having a relationship is to grow in self and as well grow in friendship to be able to communicate and understand how the other feels.  I don't believe that the man is looking for a variety of women they have a problem committing to just one person at a time in their life. A lot of us jump into relationships verse trying to find who we really are vs understanding the opposite sex.

I really believe people can grow on you and some people just become convenient because of the things they might accept. It is a difference between a girl to a woman and a boy to a man.  Do you really know what love is to want to be loved by someone  Love is unconditional you take the good with the bad you build on both sides it's having God at the beginning of the relationship? 

I don't believe everyone you come in contact with is designed to be in a relationship.  You can say it setting high values for yourself or you can say I don't want to repeat the same cycle. You have to be able to love yourself before you can love someone. Sometimes it takes you to lose what was good to end up with shit to understand what you had.  A lot of us mimic what we see verse changing what we see in our life for instincts, Some women meet men and men meet women having a fear of being alone and not really taking the time to get to know the individual to see if you have the same goals in life. Sometimes we move right with living  with each not knowing if we are compatible  in spirit  but outstanding at sex 

This brings on the spirit of Lust like who they are in bed but can really be committed to that one person because your intentions were never right from the beginning.

Every woman knows what she wants in a man and a man knows what type of woman he wants.  I really believe that a man finds a good woman he will come just work on you while God is working on him so he will know how to love you. And when God sends him to you you will know because the way he loves God he will love you, in the same manner, he would do nothing to hurt you.

But also like reading his secret obsession it very interesting bit.ly/35JN8qN

 

 

 

[Etherial Cat]

6 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

You only say and believe this because you are a woman. Thinking and feeling like this is wired in your genes.

Just imagine feeling the exact opposite way and you know what most men feel like (of course also wired in their genes)..

For men polyamory isn't a nightmare, it's heaven. Opposite way for most women mono is heaven - in both cases the genetic ground is determining what feels "right / wrong."

There is nothing right or wrong in mono / poly. It just is what it is.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I am a woman.

I've been reading books about polyamory and multiple partner relationships. And I also know some people who have been engaged into them.

A good exemple of a guy who thought polyamory would be awesome is Neil Strauss, the author of "The Game". In his book "The Truth" he engages in a relationship with several girls and he start pretty fast to completely hate it.

Another exemple is how the prophet Mohammed had issues managing his multiples wives and ended up only recommending up to 4 wives instead of the dozen he had at some point.

So polygamy is certainly not "heaven" even from a man's perspective. It is several times more obligations, troubles, jealousy and drama. And your attraction towards these partners is often not exactly equal, but you've got to be fair.

There is also something very disturbing to see your partners suffer romantically because they don't feel loved, honored and cared for enough.

 

 

[Arcangelo]

8 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

Yes, of course there are, but they are rare.

extremely rare

[Harlen Kelly]

@Gesundheit2 Based.

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

The premise here is that this assumption is false, not true.

Can you point to any reputable statistic or study (not how you feel or what you believe) that shows that most men (most means over 50%) would not choose to engage in a sexual encounter if given the opportunity?

Or is that merely a feeling you have?

Edited July 4, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Polyamory sounds attractive when you're leaving in a fantasy world but when you actually actualize it, it becomes a nightmare.

While I've never been into a polyamory myself, I've had to deal with situations of having multiple men being into me in the past. And managing others people expectations, potential heartbreak and desires is one of the worst experience I had romantically.

The human drama makes it terribly difficult to be authentic and you feel like an elephant in a china shop. Next to it, monogamy is a walk in the park. 

Yes, there are certain challenges in polygamy. But we are not talking about that here. We are not even talking about polygamy in the first place. It seems you're thinking about something else entirely when you're presenting your opinions.

We are talking about male's authentic sexual desire, which is called polyamory. Polyamory is the essence of and a prerequisite for polygamy, but it's not the same. Polyamory is simply the desire for a variety of sexual partners, regardless of relationship. And it is a real instinctual thing that is prior to ideology, insecurities, and all rationalizations. I've been wrecking my head around it for years without being able to crack its code. And I'm a spiritual dude. It's mysterious and inexplicable.

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Polyamory sounds attractive when you're leaving in a fantasy world but when you actually actualize it, it becomes a nightmare.

Unless you're judging open relationships, explain why they exist if they're such a nightmare.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Another exemple is how the prophet Mohammed had issues managing his multiples wives and ended up only recommending up to 4 wives instead of the dozen he had at some point.

The 4 wives limit in Islam is not a recommendation from Mohammed. It's a Quranic line that you are not allowed to cross, probably for logistic reasons. Keep in mind that in those days, they used to reproduce a lot. So it's not merely about managing the wives, but also the children. Plus, they were allowed to own any number of women from battles, so this example doesn't exactly help your point.

Furthermore, before Mohammed, there was no limit on the number of wives. A man was allowed to marry any number of women he wanted to. And the more the better, because more wives equals more political relations between the tribes, which practically translates into more power to his tribe.

I've studied the history of Mohammed's life thoroughly and never heard of his issues with his wives. The conclusion here sounds more like an assumption on your part.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Etherial Cat]

24 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Gesundheit2 Based.

Can you point to any reputable statistic or study (not how you feel or what you believe) that shows that most men (most means over 50%) would not choose to engage in a sexual encounter if given the opportunity?

Or is that merely a feeling you have?

So, regarding statics and studies.

I don't navigate through life or on this forum to back up all my claims with academics. Actualized.org is a post-rationalist environnement which use models that flies well over current studies and the discussions in here are not slowed down by playing the game of stage Orange research and quotations.  And usually, stage Orange paradigms are short sighted

Not to mention that some university produce some bullcrap which is oriented towards proving backgrounds for diverse interests and claims. 

That said, If you've got studies on the matter, you are free to share them with us.  The burden of proof to reverse what several other members including males have said about their experience is on you, not on me.

--

And then my point regarding the premise was that Gesundheit had chosen a new one out of the blue which is not making sense when you argue agains't someone's point to me. But whatever.

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

The burden of proof to reverse what several other members including males have said about their experience is on you, not on me.

If you truly believe that most men don't cheat and that you choose wisely, that means you should never experience jealousy. Is that your experience? Be honest, because if not, it probably means that deep down you know what we're talking about, whist using a bunch of rationalizations to ignore it.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Etherial Cat In other words, you adopted this ideological position based on merely unsound beliefs and not any tangible information or observation. Very predictable and unsurprising.

By the way, being post-rational does not equal being anti-intellectual, being uninformed or even worse, forming maps of reality based on no tangible observations.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Etherial Cat]

55 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Yes, there are certain challenges in polygamy. But we are not talking about that here. We are not even talking about polygamy in the first place. It seems you're thinking about something else entirely when you're presenting your opinions.

We are talking about male's authentic sexual desire, which is called polyamory. Polyamory is the essence of and a prerequisite for polygamy, but it's not the same. Polyamory is simply the desire for a variety of sexual partners, regardless of relationship. And it is a real instinctual thing that is prior to ideology, insecurities, and all rationalizations. I've been wrecking my head around it for years without being able to crack its code. And I'm a spiritual dude. It's mysterious and inexplicable.

Unless there is some actualization through actions, which turns polyamory into something more than just ideas or emotions, I don't see a problem with it. Everyone here seems agree that men (and women by the way) feel some various degrees of sexual attraction for other people that their partners. 

But the whole point of the conversation here is cheating.

So, granted that we are taking cheating as an action which leads to juggling between partners while being in a relationship (whether it is named or factual), we are crossing the line of sole polyamory for a relationship with multiple partners.

5 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

 

The real premise here is that most men (70%-90%) will choose polyamory inevitably given the opportunity (or they will "cheat"), and even a greater percentage will find it hard to resist.

Your counterexample is silly because you don't know how well you will hold yourself the next time an opportunity presents itself to you. You barely did it only once and now you're generalizing it as the truth that all men should follow or otherwise they're lazy or weak or whatever. But you can't even guarantee yourself probabilistically speaking.

Seems like here you were talking about polyamory in the context of action. It's not talking about it as a simple desire.

[Etherial Cat]

30 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

The 4 wives limit in Islam is not a recommendation from Mohammed. It's a Quranic line that you are not allowed to cross, probably for logistic reasons. Keep in mind that in those days, they used to reproduce a lot. So it's not merely about managing the wives, but also the children. Plus, they were allowed to own any number of women from battles, so this example doesn't exactly help your point.

Furthermore, before Mohammed, there was no limit on the number of wives. A man was allowed to marry any number of women he wanted to. And the more the better, because more wives equals more political relations between the tribes, which practically translates into more power to his tribe.

I've studied the history of Mohammed's life thoroughly and never heard of his issues with his wives. The conclusion here sounds more like an assumption on your part.

Yes, he did have numerous issues with his wives. I've watched a few documentaries on his life and one was on his relationship with his wives. So I'm not basing my thoughts here on assumptions, but on a source.

All you need to do is google it and there are plenty of content on the matter.

[Etherial Cat]

28 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Etherial Cat In other words, you adopted this ideological position based on merely unsound beliefs and not any tangible information or observation. Very predictable and unsurprising.

By the way, being post-rational does not equal being anti-intellectual, being uninformed or even worse, forming maps of reality based on no tangible observations.

As a lawyer, do you think I've gained my credentials with anti-intellectualism and poor logics?

Stop acting like you've got a monopoly on rationality. You're making no-sense. 

You sound like you're just out of intro to scientific thinking 101 and piss off everyone with your newly found knowledge.

[Gesundheit2]

@Etherial Cat

3 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Unless there is some actualization through actions, which turns polyamory into something more than just ideas or emotions, I don't see a problem with it. Everyone here seems agree that men (and women by the way) feel some various degrees of sexual attraction for other people that their partners. 

But the whole point of the conversation here is cheating.

So, granted that we are taking cheating as an action which leads to juggling between partners while being in a relationship (whether it is named or factual), we are crossing the line of sole polyamory for a relationship with multiple partners.

Seems like here you were talking about polyamory in the context of action. It's not talking about it as a simple desire.

It's not as simple as it sounds...

There are various things to consider here that might explain why that desire can turn into action:

• This desire for variety is rarely talked about during the initial phases of a relationship. The woman usually assumes that the man will be loyal only to her without actually addressing his true authentic desires.
• The woman does not even want to admit that possibility to herself, let alone encouraging her partner to confess about it. What if polyamory was his true authentic desire? Does that mean the end of a potentially good relationship? Even worse, what if it he wasn't aware of his desire but she awakened him to it? Doesn't that sub-communicate a submission of some kind on her part?
• The man assumes that he will not need another woman next to the one he's committing to. He doesn't know himself fully yet.
• The average male is not conscious enough to know himself fully. Therefore, the desire for variety will manifest later after fulfilling the more basic desire for sex.
• Thanks to feminism, the norm nowadays is to have only one partner. This makes the discussion suggested above more awkward and less likely to happen.
• Even if that discussion takes place, the man won't likely be able to tell the truth (assuming he knows himself fully), because that'll hurt his chances with the current woman, and therefore take him from monogamy down to "no gamy" 

There are probably more points to consider, but that should be a good start for a discussion.

[Gesundheit2]

47 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Yes, he did have numerous issues with his wives. I've watched a few documentaries on his life and one was on his relationship with his wives. So I'm not basing my thoughts here on assumptions, but on a source.

All you need to do is google it and there are plenty of content on the matter.

Please share those documentaries/sources. The only issue I'm aware of is the one with his wife Aisha where she was accused of cheating before she was declared innocent by Allah through Quranic revelations.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Gesundheit2 said:

Please share those documentaries/sources. The only issue I'm aware of is the one with his wife Khadija where she was accused of cheating before she was declared innocent by Allah through Quranic revelations.

I don't think it was Khadija. It was Aïcha.

The documentary was in french, but I can send you a link. I'd need to go through a few of them though to see which it was exactly.

[Gesundheit2]

@Etherial Cat Yep, I confused between the two names at first. I quit Islam a few years ago and information started to get confused.

It's fine, I'm not good in French anyways.