Struggle to make sense out of "other" humans.

[Vynce]

Im writing this to get a deeper understanding of what "other" humans really are. Precisely how awakened people say they are imagining me, even though there is just one source of imagination. But let me explain. 

I became fully conscious of how im imagining my body, other humans, plants, animals and basically the whole universe in order to discover my true self again via creative doing/being. That means that there is just one infinite consciousness, who imagines all that through my direct experience. So right now in that moment im the only existing consciousness in the entire universe imagining you guys interacting with me. 

But what happens if we sit site by site and take some powerful psychedelic to experience infinite consciousness again? Who imagines who? Obviously its me imagining you, but you can tell me how you imagined me. Thats so paradoxical and twisted. Its the dog chasing its tail and i dont know what part of the dog is the truth. 

Quote

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Vynce said:

Thats so paradoxical and twisted.

Not a bug but a feature.

Oneness is paradox.

[Windappreciator]

Hey, you! Yes, you idiot. Stop imagining my suffering!

[WaveInTheOcean]

20 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Hey, you! Yes, you idiot. Stop imagining my suffering!

Like talking to yourself I see?

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

Im writing this to get a deeper understanding of what "other" humans really are. Precisely how awakened people say they are imagining me, even though there is just one source of imagination. But let me explain. 

I became fully conscious of how im imagining my body, other humans, plants, animals and basically the whole universe in order to discover my true self again via creative doing/being. That means that there is just one infinite consciousness, who imagines all that through my direct experience. So right now in that moment im the only existing consciousness in the entire universe imagining you guys interacting with me. 

But what happens if we sit site by site and take some powerful psychedelic to experience infinite consciousness again? Who imagines who? Obviously its me imagining you, but you can tell me how you imagined me. Thats so paradoxical and twisted. Its the dog chasing its tail and i dont know what part of the dog is the truth. 

Not paradoxical at all.

No, it's not me imagining you, and you imagning me. This is dualistic ego-thinking.

Only the ego needs to understand things with words/language.

Only the ego makes distinctions.

Only the ego creates the illusion of 'things' it can control or manipulate or posess.

(Truly there are no things, no nouns, in this world; only motion).

The ego thinks in difference and opposites. Can't see that every polar opposite 100% imply each other (=are identical, ultimately).

Hate IS Love.

Bad IS Good.

Down IS Up.

Death IS Life.

Ego IS God (:D)

YOU are ME.

I am YOU.

There is no 'site by site'; this is a division of your field of vision into objects. Like our bodies are really separated. Lol dude, they aren't! Look! No, really: LOOK: there is NO separation. Every separation (distinction) & difference you assign (ego assign) to 'experience/awareness' is exactly that: imaginary, conceptual, thought-like, illusory, historical: PLAY. ☯️ ???? ♾️

Our bodies are one, totally connected through spacetime, like a painting is ONE: all colours, background, foreground connected by the fiber, fabric and structure of the canvas: ONE.

We are One. It's We imagning 'you' and 'me', but truly there is ONLY *We*! 

"Obviously its me imagining you, but you can tell me how you imagined me. Thats so paradoxical and twisted."

... becomes (IS!): ...

"Obviously it's We imagining 'me' (We), We imagining 'you' (We). That's obvious as fuck (ehm, just not to the ego, oops)."

...

You trying to understand Oneness with words is like me smashing my forehead towards my keyboard when I should make my homework assignment.

It doesn't work:D

But after some time smashing my head into keyboard, I realized I have to write it.

You have to let go of the need to understand reality with your mind.

There is so much more wisdom hidden in the heart and body.

Let go being addicted to understanding.

Ultimately speaking, there is nothing to understand, but experience to be had.

The more 'the experience' is contaminated by ego (thoughts) the less you truly understand (understand as in *feel* (❤️) & *intuition* (body)).

Edited June 30, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Windappreciator]

15 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Like talking to yourself I see?

You have defeated yourself.

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

You have defeated yourself.

Okay, so how did you defeat yourself?

"So I* like talking to myself, I see?" 

"So We** like talking to Ourselves*, We see?"

How did We defeat Ourselves?

****

Edited June 30, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Nahm]

That dog doesn’t have ‘parts’. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

That dog doesn’t have ‘parts’. 

Haha , touche. Mic drop.

???

[Fran11]

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

Who imagines who? Obviously its me imagining you, but you can tell me how you imagined me. Thats so paradoxical and twisted. 

The problem is you assume we exist as separate bubbles at the same time.

Rather try to think of all bubbles of conciousness as being superposed outside of time as pure potentiality/nothingness, with only one moment being actualized at a time: the one you are experiencing.

There's nothing outside of your experience, neither outside of my experience, and there's no contradiction.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

The problem is you assume we exist as separate bubbles at the same time.

Rather try to think of all bubbles of conciousness as being superposed outside of time as pure potentiality/nothingness, with only one moment being actualized at a time: the one you are experiencing.

There's nothing outside of your experience, neither outside of my experience, and there's no contradiction.

 

Thanks for the analogy. Nifty.

[Vynce]

@WaveInTheOcean I get that trying to understand stuff won't get me anywhere. But it is possible to understand reality. However, it seems like Impossible in this sober/sleep state of mind. I think the real challenge would be to silence the mind and experience reality instead of understanding it. 

I think you could measure the ego-mind activity through asking yourself if you are really experience reality of just describing it. 

[impulse9]

Stop trying to understand psychedelic experiences logically, unless you want to go insane. Understand them the same way you would understand the beauty of a setting sun. There's nothing to tell, and the more you talk the less you end up saying.

Edited June 30, 2021 by impulse9

[SourceCodo]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Okay, so how did you defeat yourself?

"So I* like talking to myself, I see?" 

"So We** like talking to Ourselves*, We see?"

How did We defeat Ourselves?

****

Patience has cost you your strength.

Victory has defeated you. 

[Vynce]

@impulse9 you're right. I think this urge to explain and describe gets fueled up, when you listen to a 3-hour video of Leo effortlessly explaining deep mystical experiences. My ego really thinks there is a shortcut to these insights and wants to figure out everything within a blink of an eye. 

[SourceCodo]

3 hours ago, Vynce said:

Im writing this to get a deeper understanding of what "other" humans really are. Precisely how awakened people say they are imagining me, even though there is just one source of imagination. But let me explain. 

I became fully conscious of how im imagining my body, other humans, plants, animals and basically the whole universe in order to discover my true self again via creative doing/being. That means that there is just one infinite consciousness, who imagines all that through my direct experience. So right now in that moment im the only existing consciousness in the entire universe imagining you guys interacting with me. 

But what happens if we sit site by site and take some powerful psychedelic to experience infinite consciousness again? Who imagines who? Obviously its me imagining you, but you can tell me how you imagined me. Thats so paradoxical and twisted. Its the dog chasing its tail and i dont know what part of the dog is the truth. 

Let me be your sounding board. This is what I think when I say or hear these things. Other humans are like you, just slightly different. lmfao. 

I am imagining you = I can never truly know you. I can only imagine to know you as I am only able to perceive a sliver, a mere fraction of what and how you are beneath the surface and beyond it. Yes, you do actually know who I am speaking to. To say I know you is a lie, so I simply imagine I can know you. Perhaps I can only truly ever know myself, yet even this is a stretch. Beyond the tangible, this phrase doesn't really hold any weight. The imaginer is just as imagined as the imagined. Most people seem to use the word uniquely. RUN far away from this nonsense. 

What we see with fellow humans is a game of lying and trickery. Your closest friend will lie through their teeth due to ignorance and there's nothing you nor they can do about it. So you might just be playing around with other peoples bullshit... Like their waste product. Yuck. Dangerous hobby.

When made aware of the nature of deceit, they will react in anger or dismissal to preserve what little identity they can cling onto. Honesty is a fallacy. Love is discrimination. Thoughts are hallucinations. You are living in a dark cave, experiencing the world through a bunch of sprawling nerve endings that look like roots housed in a floating fleshy fish tank that is host to all manner of micro-organisms and biological machinery. Not only that, but you, the one that can interact with me isn't even a physical thing - you just operate a physical thing... 

Perhaps you are in prison. Perhaps that is where we all are. But that's like saying playing a video game, experiencing a dreamscape or spending time in an AR learning sandbox is prison time. Perspective shapes the experience of reality. 

Dropping the need for distinctions is a step on the path. Arrive sooner, or later. 

It's probably you. Yep, definitely, You.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by SourceCodo
Just wanted to edit this to say that I have zero confidence in my answer and you should, too. :)

[WaveInTheOcean]

36 minutes ago, Vynce said:

@WaveInTheOcean I get that trying to understand stuff won't get me anywhere. But it is possible to understand reality.

No it is not. Sorry to burst your and Leo's bubble. At least not in the way the word 'understanding' is usually understood (:D): i.e. 'i am understanding it with my mind; I can explain it with language'.

Reality is absolutely 100% inexplicable/enigmatic/mystical/ineffable.

But be my guest and keep trying, remember to report back regularly;)

However, it seems like Impossible in this sober/sleep state of mind. I think the real challenge would be to silence the mind and experience reality instead of understanding it. 

okay, exactly my point, i only read this now, haha, my bad replying too early.

36 minutes ago, Vynce said:

I think you could measure the ego-mind activity through asking yourself if you are really experience reality of just describing it. 

Yes indeed, good one.

[WaveInTheOcean]

56 minutes ago, Vynce said:

@impulse9 you're right. I think this urge to explain and describe gets fueled up, when you listen to a 3-hour video of Leo effortlessly explaining deep mystical experiences. My ego really thinks there is a shortcut to these insights and wants to figure out everything within a blink of an eye. 

Effortlessly? He's saying a lot of useless masturbating show-off total theoretical meaningless nonsense that only traps his followers (like you) in believing you yourself can think yourself to greater understanding through language.

That's the trap with psychedelics that Alan Watts warned about. You start taking psychedelics, suddenly realize you're God, and then in sneaky sneaky subtle ways forget the obvious fact, that YOU HAVE ALWAYS been fucking God, nothing changed.

The one who starts clinging to 'the God-realization' is the ego. Leo is mostly just shooting these "theoretical ultra meta/metaphysical/advanced self-masturbating conceptual fancy spiritual language-videos" for selfish reasons, his own ego's reasons. 

It's because Leo deep down is afraid of 'being stupid' (that's also what his fatigue syndrome-(hypochondria) is a somatic symptom of and also why he dislikes weed).... - So he has to constantly 'show' himself (his ego) - and others - as a smart charismatic witty intelligent man that is very good with words, deduction...in short: THINk1ng . You see? Think is KING for Leo's ego. He can't let go of his extreme addiction to think 24/7. Think think think. 

But look, Leo is brilliant at thinking. One of the brightest thinkers in the world, so naturally I'm glad he is still addicted to it, cos it means more videos for us, haha, although the price is his own suffering and maintained slumber instead of a "true holistic, whole, full-blown rainbow-body-heart-awakening" that isn't addicted to ANYTHING anymore (except breathing & water, and perhaps sunlight/food, a few minutes of sleep/meditation).

Be careful with your projections.

As said, Leo is far from enlightened. He's still deeply addicted to many things, including the aforementioned (addicted to thoughts, he has even admitted this several times here) & feeling superior to others. He is addicted to maintaining this self-image of 'being one of the smartest thinkers in the world.'

It's rather obvious.

Edited June 30, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

Listen/read to some Rumi, Matt Kahn, Alan Watts or Osho if you want to listen to people who are/were actually very awake in heart  ?❤️?  and body ???

Edited June 30, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not a bug but a feature.

Oneness is paradox.

Oneness is only a paradox to the Mind (ruled by ego). To the Heart it is obvious and lucid as daylight that Oneness is what is. The Heart just doesn't *think*: it's about feeling & intuition.

Listen and follow your (divine) intution, nothing else.