What’s the endgame with psychedelics?

[Bodhitree]

Impulse9 asked this in another thread, and I thought it was worth a fuller discussion…

If you think of all the mind-expanding experiences that you can have on psychedelics, and the relatively few things that stick around afterwards, what is the endgame? The first few times you might get something vaguely spiritual or something indicating the oneness of things, but then after a few more you might get a bad trip, then does it keep bouncing around? Where does it lead, ultimately?

[NoSelfSelf]

To love ?

[kinesin]

To burp and fart freely, without shame.

[Frenk]

Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the universe..

[Flowerfaeiry]

Look at what Leo has done with the help of psychedelics...and that's just one example. 

[erik8lrl]

It leads to God/infinite love/yourself.

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Bodhitree said:

and the relatively few things that stick around afterwards

This is not true in my experience

[Heart of Space]

To permanently expand your reality.  

I'm living a mystical existence.  I experience magic everyday, real magic.  Partly due to psychedelics, meditation, and contemplation on reality.  

Just don't be surprised if your mystical existence isn't what you thought it would be.  

[molosku]

do online dating for "end game", there is no point with psychedelics where you go "well, that was that, I'm done now". It's an infinity to explore, have an intention but not a goal"

[molosku]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is not true in my experience

this, basically an assumption to say nothing will stick. Even if nothing new "sticks", certainly a bunch of false stuff that has stuck to you peels out. That essentially makes room for truth (and more self deception too, sometimes)

[The Buddha]

If u are truly interested go and test yourself, is the only way u will know. 5MeoDmt would be perfect to experience what is the endgame. All converstion is utterly stupid, the range of experiences psychedelics offer is astonishing. It's one of those thing u have to live and go all the way. I can't explain you how it feels to be in a rollercoster, u would imagine and interpret, but it is nothing as actually being in a rollercoaster.

[impulse9]

All of you act as if you take something back from your trips, when we all know perfectly well that you don't when we're honest with ourselves. What good are all the mystical truths in the world when all you get is confusion upon landing back on Earth? I've done enough psychedelics in my life to know that this is the case, but perhaps some of you prefer to live in the fantasy world where you get the spiritual goodies for free by popping a pill. It doesn't work like that. Unearned wisdom is worthless.

Now if you actually use psychedelics in a smart way - perhaps as a tool when you get stuck on your spiritual path - then they may be beneficial. But don't assume you're gonna just pop psychedelics one after another and end up enlightened, because it won't happen. I personally know people that have done psychedelics almost every day for years on end. They're not enlightened, they end up fucking delirious.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

All of you act as if you take something back from your trips, when we all know perfectly well that you don't when we're honest with ourselves. What good are all the mystical truths in the world when all you get is confusion upon landing back on Earth? I've done enough psychedelics in my life to know that this is the case, but perhaps some of you prefer to live in the fantasy world where you get the spiritual goodies for free by popping a pill. It doesn't work like that. Unearned wisdom is worthless.

Now if you actually use psychedelics in a smart way - perhaps as a tool when you get stuck on your spiritual path - then they may be beneficial. But don't assume you're gonna just pop psychedelics one after another and end up enlightened, because it won't happen. I personally know people that have done psychedelics almost every day for years on end. They're not enlightened, they end up fucking delirious.

Wise words indeed

It becomes an ego thing or selfishness.

You don't dissolve the self via selfishness.

 

[Leo Gura]

If you think you've reached the end game after a dozen trips, you're seriously deluded.

It will take 100 trips+ just to get warmed up.

The end is Infinity.

[impulse9]

Personally I find it funny how the non-spiritual people underestimate psychedelics by assuming "it's just a drug", and on the other hand the overly spiritual people overestimate psychedelics by assuming using them will just propel them to nirvana with 0 effort on their part. It's not enough to rise above ego, you have to rise above psychedelics as well. The only reason why anyone has benefited from these substances in the context of spirituality is due to all the work they've done before and after taking them. Without that work, all you have is a lightshow without much context.

Just like coffee can help you stay awake but it's not a substitute for being motivated to do work, psychedelics can help you see the truth but they are not a substitute for spiritual work.

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, impulse9 said:

All of you act as if you take something back from your trips, when we all know perfectly well that you don't when we're honest with ourselves. 

Speak for yourself kid;-)

But still a good post. Wise. Yes, taking a psychedelic IS the EASY part.

Integration, afterwards, is where the real, hard work lies.

[WaveInTheOcean]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Endgame is a stage Orange concept. So healing should probably be the main concern with psychedelics at that stage.

Right on bro, right on. Wise words indeed. ?

44 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Personally I find it funny how the non-spiritual people underestimate psychedelics by assuming "it's just a drug", and on the other hand the overly spiritual people overestimate psychedelics by assuming using them will just propel them to nirvana with 0 effort on their part. It's not enough to rise above ego, you have to rise above psychedelics as well. The only reason why anyone has benefited from these substances in the context of spirituality is due to all the work they've done before and after taking them. Without that work, all you have is a lightshow without much context.

Just like coffee can help you stay awake but it's not a substitute for being motivated to do work, psychedelics can help you see the truth but they are not a substitute for spiritual work.

True true.

But is there really any work to be done?

Isn't all of this just a play? 

Of course, from the perspective of the brain-ego-mind, yes there is work, there is an endgame, there is goals.

But from the pov of God, everything is already perfect and there is nowhere to get to, but right now. Enjoy.

[Alex_R]

 

[Bodhitree]

@Gesundheit2 So what do psychedelics heal, ultimately? Leo says “the endgame is infinity”, meaning there is no end to the healing. Generally though when you are looking at healing trauma’s, you are also looking at returning to a natural ground state. Not necessarily a childlike state, but how you might have been at whatever age you are at, like looking in a mirror. 

In a way our human minds are just error compounded on error, we get given our mother’s beliefs and our father’s beliefs and our teacher’s beliefs, and much of it is shadows and half-truth, things they themselves were passed on or picked up. While our bodies grow and heal naturally, our minds become filled with cultural patterns, and psychedelics help you break down some of that by peaking behind the curtain of reality, according to Terence McKenna anyway. 

So once you have broken through those cultural patterns, what are you left with? A set of broken remnants which are taken away. It reminds me of something that the Thai Buddhist teacher Ajahn Chah once said, that the process of approaching enlightenment is all about letting go.

I wonder if it does work like that… I still can’t take psychedelics because of a medicine that I take that interferes with their function, so it might be a while before I can investigate myself. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Bodhitree

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 hours ago, impulse9 said:

If everything is perfect now, why do you need psychedelics? ;-)

To help me see that everything was and forever will always be perfect.

The one who needs to meditate and take psychedelics IS 'the ego' ... i.e. a theater play/character/dream/game/mask ?????? ???☯️