Enlightenment is not a better experience.

[VeganAwake]

Better or worse are concepts within the experience of being an individual.

The individual experience is created through infinite judgements happening so quickly and unconsciously that it's turned into a continuous self story which seems to be moving in time.

Individuals with similar conditioning can have very similar experiences, while individuals with much different upbringings can seem to have an almost entirely different experience.

So the robotic conditioned judgments create the dream characters experience.

Enlightenment is the end of this individual character moving through time, which is already the case.

❤

 

 

 

[Adrian325]

Everything is perfect with or without being aware of it.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Adrian325

[The0Self]

It’s being yourself without anything in the way. Nothing doing everything. Free from guilt or concepts of not being worthy of this empty-full paradise. Even though it’s obvious nobody has ever done anything, the ego survives by imagining it can do and be aware of things.

[VeganAwake]

Ego is identification. It feels like a sticky center where things collect and build up an identity.

❤

[WaveInTheOcean]

Yup - enlightenment is simply 'a returning to what is' .

No judgments. No levels. No distinctions. No opposites. 

Just imagination. Appearances. Happenings.

Mystery. Unknowing. Faith. Divinity. 

Reality - An ineffable enigma - Unreal.

An eternal everchanging motion.

A real dream.

Eternal Unconditional Infinite Love (Neutrality).
Infinite Novelty. 
Pure Empty Consciousness.
Beingness without filters, without divisions.
Harmony, Unity.
One.

<3

[kinesin]

If people knew what enlightenment truly was, they wouldn't pursue it.  Not because it's anything bad that they should avoid, but rather because from a pre-enlightened perspective, enlightenment seems like something exciting and mystical, almost supernatural even.  Many people pursue enlightenment because they want a taste of that, but only once they reach closer to it do they realise they were motivated by an illusion.  It's a little like how a 5 year-old child might imagine what their own life will be like when they're 40 years old...  they have no chance whatsoever of actually imagining any of it accurately.  Once they actually reach 40 for real and put their mind back to those old memories of how they imagined adulthood might be, the only reaction is to smile at their former innocence and naivete.  How could they have possibly known?  The reality is far more mundane than anything they could have imagined, but also so much deeper.

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Better or worse are concepts within the experience of being an individual.

Enlightenment is not a better experience.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

I would say that

Spirituality/Enlightenment/Awakening/Yoga/Meditation/Psychedelics

is just an intense form of healing childhood trauma.

Those who have suffered the most in childhood, in earlier lives, and even in adult life... those are the ones who have the most potential to reach heaven.

It's like taking a bouncy ball and smashing it very hard into the hard ground. What happens to it?

"The heavenly highs you are capable of reaching are directly proportional to the unacknowledged depths you have the courage to dive down into" 

[IAmReallyImportant]

Enlightenment doesn't give you anything. Neither joy nor hapiness. It isn’t necessary or 'higher' either. It is a phenomena of interest in eyes of many people. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, kinesin said:

If people knew what enlightenment truly was, they wouldn't pursue it.  Not because it's anything bad that they should avoid, but rather because from a pre-enlightened perspective, enlightenment seems like something exciting and mystical, almost supernatural even.  Many people pursue enlightenment because they want a taste of that, but only once they reach closer to it do they realise they were motivated by an illusion.  It's a little like how a 5 year-old child might imagine what their own life will be like when they're 40 years old...  they have no chance whatsoever of actually imagining any of it accurately.  Once they actually reach 40 for real and put their mind back to those old memories of how they imagined adulthood might be, the only reaction is to smile at their former innocence and naivete.  How could they have possibly known?  The reality is far more mundane than anything they could have imagined, but also so much deeper.

?

[VeganAwake]

58 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

Enlightenment doesn't give you anything. Neither joy nor hapiness. It isn’t necessary or 'higher' either. It is a phenomena of interest in eyes of many people. 

Exactly because Enlightenment is the recognition that "you" does not exist.

[Consilience]

The ox is still eating that special Nibbāna sweet grass ?

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Exactly because Enlightenment is the recognition that "you" does not exist.

what does  exist? :-)

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

what does  exist? :-)

The Neo Advaita kryptonite ?

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Exactly because Enlightenment is the recognition that "you" does not exist.

Nah that’s just getting who you are. Until you know what you are, that isn’t it. 

“Mu” - ?

Edited June 29, 2021 by Consilience

[Seraphim]

The new non-duality teachings sure are convenient. By simply understanding the teachings you get to feel that you have become enlightened, just like the Buddha and other revered yogis and Buddhists from history. No need to meditate or work on clearing out your inner distortions, everything is already enlightened. And if you happen to come across a quote from someone like Ramana Maharshi that indicates that you have more work to do, then you can always find a good neo-advaita quote to counter it with!

"The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts and the degree of concentration on a single thought are the measures to gauge spiritual progress." If you are still addicted to thinking then the ego/I-thought is still alive, you are not done yet. If you still don't feel and see that everything is the Self/the absolute, then you are not enlightened yet. The no-self thing is usually the first of many awakenings that are available.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Seraphim

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Enlightenment is the end of this individual character moving through time, which is already the case.

and it is the beginning of seeing that you are obviously the manifested existence, in its absolute perfection, brilliance and glory. not a better experience as it always was, but it seems so much better

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, kinesin said:

If people knew what enlightenment truly was, they wouldn't pursue it.  Not because it's anything bad that they should avoid, but rather because from a pre-enlightened perspective, enlightenment seems like something exciting and mystical, almost supernatural even.  Many people pursue enlightenment because they want a taste of that, but only once they reach closer to it do they realise they were motivated by an illusion.  It's a little like how a 5 year-old child might imagine what their own life will be like when they're 40 years old...  they have no chance whatsoever of actually imagining any of it accurately.  Once they actually reach 40 for real and put their mind back to those old memories of how they imagined adulthood might be, the only reaction is to smile at their former innocence and naivete.  How could they have possibly known?  The reality is far more mundane than anything they could have imagined, but also so much deeper.

^^ Yes this exactly. This becomes obvious.

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Seraphim said:

The new non-duality teachings sure are convenient. By simply understanding the teachings you get to feel that you have become enlightened, just like the Buddha and other revered yogis and Buddhists from history. No need to meditate or work on clearing out your inner distortions, everything is already enlightened.

Well said.  And to your point, yes there are actually mystical states of consciousness that are accessible but, and here is the key distinction, not by the ego.  So there is truth in the claim that an ego seeking awakening for egoic purposes will never reach such states of consciousness.  That is simply because the ego does not reach these states.  (It cannot because it is the finite state itself which dissolves) They are void of ego.  Saying these states are better is also ego and stated from the dualistic state of consciousness.  From within a non-dual state of consciousness there is only isness.

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well said.  And to your point, yes there are actually mystical states of consciousness that are accessible but, and here is the key distinction, not by the ego.  So there is truth in the claim that an ego seeking awakening for egoic purposes will never reach such states of consciousness.  That is simply because the ego does not reach these states.  They are void of ego.  Saying these states are better is also ego and stated from the dualistic state of consciousness.  From within a non-dual state of consciousness there is only isness.

 

Conceptualizations about concioussness are most devilish. That’s why actualized.org is by far not the best teaching. You don’t know how much influence the notion of persons who are enlightened alone has on your experience. It is more deceptable than you might recognize. 

Nobody can ever beat the book of not knowing. Because it is 100% no bullshit, not 80%. Its about pure, clear and direct contemplation. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

Conceptualizations about concioussness are most devilish. That’s why actualized.org is by far not the best teaching. You don’t know how much influence the notion of persons who are enlightened alone has on your experience. It is more deceptable than you might recognize. 

Nobody can ever beat the book of not knowing. Because it is 100% no bullshit, not 80%. Its about pure, clear and direct contemplation. 

Yes.  Forget all that you learned about spirituality and enlightenment..and Just perform  self inquiry with no ulterior motives.