Self Inquiry - Thinking Or Being?

[oysterman]

In his older content, Leo talks about self inquiry in a different way to now.

It comes across as if it were simply a process of asking a few questions:

• Who is aware?
• Who is perceiving?
• Who am I?

I would say that style of 'thinking' inquiry is also found in his Neti Neti guided video.

 

In a more recent guided video (Guided Meditation), I notice an entirely different style of inquiry. In this episode, Leo slowly builds up your awareness by getting you to be mindful of your senses. After your awareness has increased, he encourages you to become your senses, accepting absolutely everything.

 

When I practise the questioning-type method, I end up with no answers, and easily lose focus.

 

With the other, awareness-type method, after just a few sessions of practice I can consistently 'push my awareness' out of my head, into all of my senses. This results in very strange experiences - I would definitely not call them enlightenment experiences, but my awareness shifts and my sense of self feels like it is being twisted and pulled.

 

My question is this: are the older methods less effective than the new ones?

 

Leo's content seems to have evolved greatly in the past few months, and I am wondering whether his attitude to self inquiry has evolved at the same time. I am lead to conclude that his older 'thinking' methods are now obsolete in comparison to this new, 'being' style inquiry.

 

What do you think?

[Bizarre]

@oysterman

The new style is pop 30 g of white powder up your nose and hope for the best !

So all that has really happened is we've all moved from arguing about one theory, to arguing about another. 

And nobody is none the more enlightened. Because enlightenment is not about paradoxes and busting your ego and it's worldview. It's about understanding who we are.

[Live Life Liam]

29 minutes ago, GTITurbolover said:

@oysterman

The new style is pop 30 g of white powder up your nose and hope for the best ! 

Hahahaha made me laugh Your probably right though.

[oysterman]

52 minutes ago, GTITurbolover said:

The new style is pop 30 g of white powder up your nose and hope for the best !

1000x the recommended dose can't be good for you

[Markus]

Self-Inquiry has nothing to do with thinking. Yes, there are the questions, but they're just there to direct your attention. The point is becoming conscious of what's true. Yes, it's easy to lose track. It's a highly focused activity. When you do lose track, just bring your attention back. It's not obsolete at all, that's just a conclusion you've drawn in your mind, based on ungrounded assumptions. Self-inquiry is the most direct method and Leo has frequently commented in support of it, as well as Neti-Neti even recently.

Pushing your awareness out of your head is just that - pushing your awareness out of your head. That gives less CPU for thinking, so you're more focused. Yes, it gives you a high of a sort. That has nothing to do with enlightenment though. It's a feel-good trap.

The guided meditation is not inquiry, it's basically the same as "be still", "do nothing", "choiceless awareness" etc. Many names. 

[Space]

I think the key to self-inquiry is to get to a stage of not-knowing. You really don't know what you are...at all. Get past the "closed-ness of your knowing" as Peter Ralston put it. Truly realise that you don't know what you are and then you can really start to wonder. Don't just look for an 'answer', because you won't get one. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Reality

It really looks like your answer is that there is no answer.

There is also that trap.

[Markus]

Though I should add directing attention away from your head is a good background practice for daily life. It'll definitely help with mindfulness and enlightenment.

[Bizarre]

11 hours ago, Reality said:

I think the key to self-inquiry is to get to a stage of not-knowing. You really don't know what you are...at all. Get past the "closed-ness of your knowing" as Peter Ralston put it. Truly realise that you don't know what you are and then you can really start to wonder. Don't just look for an 'answer', because you won't get one. 

The jury is not out on who you are . It's been well revealed for thousands of years. 

You just don't know because your teachers don't know because their teachers didn't know either. That's why nobody can tell you what you are. They just say it's "nothingness" or non conceptual. 

These are not answers.

[WelcometoReality]

8 hours ago, Bizarre said:

The jury is not out on who you are . It's been well revealed for thousands of years. 

You just don't know because your teachers don't know because their teachers didn't know either. That's why nobody can tell you what you are. They just say it's "nothingness" or non conceptual. 

These are not answers.

Can there ever be an answer to that question though?

[Bizarre]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Can there ever be an answer to that question though?

@WelcometoReality

Is this a joke question?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Bizarre

[WelcometoReality]

10 hours ago, Bizarre said:

@WelcometoReality

Is this a joke question?

What I mean is, can the answer be told?

[Bizarre]

18 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

What I mean is, can the answer be told?

Of course. The jury is not out. We just need to be able to discriminate awareness from the objects appearing in awareness, and drop the tendency to try to experience Enlightenment. Because that tendency to experience Enlightenment creates a vasana that takes us away in the opposite direction.

[WelcometoReality]

@Bizarre are you saying that we are awareness? Isn't that the same as saying nothingness or non-conceptual?

[Drivro1]

Why do you take out all scientific evidance when talking about these things? Define awarness trough science.

[Leo Gura]

@oysterman For me self-inquiry is a combination of thinking and being.

There are generally two ways to become enlightened:

1) Use the thinking mind to eat itself alive, finally seeing through the illusion. (The method of contemplation or questioning or deconstruction)

2) Just be still for so long that the mind quiets down and Truth reveals itself. (The method of meditation or mindfulness)

In reality, you will intermix both methods because it's very hard to only do one method for years on end. You will naturally have intellectual questions arise. You will naturally want to actively think about your thinking and logically investigate your beliefs. And you will also have to go beyond thinking, still the mind, and reside in raw awareness.

So I think it would be a trap to so start a debate in your mind about whether method #1 is better or worse than method #2. You really want to master both.

For some people, one method will be much more effective than another. That's okay. Experiment with methods until you find one that suits you. Don't be rigid with methods. There are many methods and you will not know which is effective for you unless you try it for a while.

I've personally found week-long mindfulness meditation retreats most effective. It's really hard to not get a glimpse of enlightenment after 100 hours of full-time mindfulness meditation. But that's just me. And I have done a lot of intellectual deconstruction already, so that set the foundation for the mindfulness work. Because my mind is very conceptual and creative, meditation tends to be very effective because it stills the mind.

To me, deconstruction & meditation are like peanut-butter and jelly

BTW, the "Who am I?" and "What am I?" questions are NOT meant to be intellectually answered. You ask those questions and then BE the answer! It's a dredging up process. You keep querying "What am I?" until all the false answers are purged from your mind and you BECOME the answer. Any intellectual answer, any linguistic answer, is NOT the answer. The answer is an experience, not a thought or sentence.

[WaveInTheOcean]

psychedelics = deconstruction + raw awareness combined = most effectiveee...... but i guess meditating and learning to accept the present moment before doing psychedelics is pretty advisable to avoid bad trips.

[Drivro1]

Psychedelics is a slippery road and you can easly fall off of it. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Drivro1

[JKG]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've personally found week-long mindfulness meditation retreats most effective. It's really hard to not get a glimpse of enlightenment after 100 hours of full-time mindfulness meditation. But that's just me. And I have done a lot of intellectual deconstruction already, so that set the foundation for the mindfulness work. Because my mind is very conceptual and creative, meditation tends to be very effective because it stills the mind.

That seems plausible but what about sleep? Do you remain aware while sleeping, do you skip sleep or is it not needed at this level of awareness?

[Leo Gura]

@quantum You sleep, but just keep the intention to be mindful while falling asleep and as soon as you wake up. If you do that, you'll notice that even during sleep, while you dream, mindfulness will sorta be at work, keeping a vigil.

You don't need to consciously manipulate anything during sleep itself.