Will the US economy collapse like the Roman empire?

[Radu97]

Hey guys!

 

I keep seeing all these debates online that the usa as a country and it's economy will collapse in the next 20 years due to its unsustainability, greed and capitalistic system (lack of healthcare, low wages, high costs etc). Do you guys agree with that or will the current administration and the progressive youth will have enough of an impact that things will change? Especially seeing that china as gdp is closing the gap behind the us.

 

Many people say that the huge debt to other countries the reliability of international trade will hurt the us in the long run. Also the fact that the us is using mostly the military industrial complex to keep itself on top which is not a long term solution to stay afloat.

 

What do you guys think? If I am wrong you can correct me I am happy to find out more. I really like the US as a country since I have visited the place before and had positive experiences there.

Thanks.

Ps. I come from 2 socialist countries (Romania, Canada)

[Leo Gura]

People have been fearmongering about the collapse of civilization for 10,000 years.

Yawn.

Pay attention to how those who fearmonger about collapse use it as a way to milk you for money. Oldest trick in the devil's handbook.

P.S. Canada is not a socialist country.

[snowyowl]

In short, no, I don't think the US economy will collapse completely tho there could be a recession or two. Recessions seem to happen every 10 years or so in capitalist systems anyway. 

There's plenty of other countries following an unsustainable greed-based capitalist system, China's model even more so perhaps, as it's a one party state. Are you predicting they will collapse too? But I do expect to see a gradual move to greener technology in this timespan, still within basically the same capitalist paradigm. 

[Leo Gura]

Civilization is a harmonic oscilator, so it will have natural ups and downs.

We just had a big downer with Covid.

[Radu97]

Leo how do you like explain the fall of other developed civilizations throughout history?  Ie. Roman empire, macedonian, persian empire ( now in the middle east it's back to the 3rd world after having babylon the most advanced society 3000 years ago, Egyptian civilization etc)

[Radu97]

Being from Romania I know because we were conquered by 3 empires throughout time: Roman, austro-hungatian and otoman(turkish) empires which no longer exist.

[Leo Gura]

@Radu97 We are in a globalized economy now. No one is gonna be conquering anyone. The big nations are all too deeply interconnected through trade and business. Empires are not sustainable and they will not fly. What's gonna happen is ever deeper globalization.

And the global economy is not going anywhere. It's perhaps the single most stable thing on this planet. It will bounce back no matter what because people gotta survive and survival is gonna happen via the global economy. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube.

Simply put, humans have nowhere else to go. Short of a giant meteor strike, I don't see any end to it.

There will be downs turns and some crashes, but it will all bounce back stronger than ever if you are patient.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Radu97 It will not ''collapse'' but it will not be the top economy for too long, china will become the largest economy and subsequently India will surpass the US.

How is Canada a socialist country?

Edited June 27, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[StarfoxEpiphany]

11 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

How is Canada a socialist country?

Because 40% of the GDP is from the government I think coming up in 2021.  Money printer go brrrrrrrrrrrr (to pay the debt).  But I guess that depends on your definiton of socialism.

 

And we actually don't know if China will be able to sustain this growth.  Every other country that has gotten this far entered something called a middle income trap.

Edited June 27, 2021 by StarfoxEpiphany

[DocWatts]

@Radu97

Just out of curiosity, how knowledgeable are you about the Roman Empire to be making such a comparison in the first place? Because if there is a (very loose) analogy to be drawn, the final Century of the Roman Republic would be a far more instructive case Study than the eventual collapse of the Western half of the Empire centuries later.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by DocWatts

[Radu97]

I see it as a socialist country canada because when I used to live there back in 2001 me and my family had free healthcare and other gov benefits. My grandparents used to live in cleveland and they had non of that they just worked and had to pay everything themselves. Maybe I am mistaken but correct me if I am wrong. I accept all criticism and want to find out more.

[Leo Gura]

@Radu97 Then America is a social country too. We have free schooling.

Socialism is defined as: public ownership over the means of production. It's when the workers own their places of work.

[StarfoxEpiphany]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Radu97 Then America is a social country too. We have free schooling.

Socialism is defined as: public ownership over the means of production.

It really isn't that much difference except the US used the military as a massive social hiring/spending program during the Cold War and ww2 to defend the West.  You can't just undo 80 years of this kind of spending.

Edited June 27, 2021 by StarfoxEpiphany

[Radu97]

Ok I see . Thanks all for the info Leo really do appreciate it! It's just that all these debates online have me confused to how things work and continue to be. But I will still do research. Thanks!

Edited June 27, 2021 by Radu97

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, StarfoxEpiphany said:

the US used the military as a massive social hiring/spending program during the Cold War and ww2 to defend the West.

You're not very well-versed in how societies work, are you?

Every major society that has ever existed in the last 10,000 years has invested massive public resources in their military.

Welcome to the human race. You are not an individual. Humans can only survival as a collective.

[StarfoxEpiphany]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Socialism is defined as: public ownership over the means of production. It's when the workers own their places of work.

So you mean like getting paid equity instead of a salary.  Nothing is stopping people from doing this. 

In fact, it can easily be done with an LLC

[StarfoxEpiphany]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Every major society that has ever existed in the last 10,000 years has invested massive public resources in their military.

Your beloved social democracies don't because there's no EU military.  That way they can have no responsibilites and depend/blame the US.  Not that I wouldn't do the same thing.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, StarfoxEpiphany said:

Your beloved social democracies don't because there's no EU military.  That way they can have no responsibilites and depend/blame the US.  Not that I wouldn't do the same thing.

The more unified a people are, the more they are willing to take responsibility for collective issues, the less military resources they will require.

[StarStruck]

4 minutes ago, StarfoxEpiphany said:

Your beloved social democracies don't because there's no EU military.  That way they can have no responsibilites and depend/blame the US.  Not that I wouldn't do the same thing.

As long as the core of Europe (west Europe) is not touched we are fine with it. Russia can have Ukraine and Poland. Why should we fight fight US interests?

[StarfoxEpiphany]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

As long as the core of Europe (west Europe) is not touched we are fine with it. Russia can have Ukraine and Poland. Why should we fight fight US interests?

Why should an EU military stop a genocide in Rwanda?  Good question, Idk the answer.