The news about Israel you will probably miss.

[Anton Rogachevski]

Because they don't demonize Israel like you love to.

This Palestinian man had dared to speak against the palestinian authority and was brutally murdered by Palestinian police:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/outspoken-critic-palestinian-authority-nizar-banat-dies-after-violent-arrest-n1272286

Edited June 25, 2021 by Anton Rogachevski

[Harlen Kelly]

@Anton Rogachevski Are you in support of the measures Israel has been taking against Palestine, which were deemed a genocide by the United Nations?

Is it possible to be against the unlawful acts committed by Palestine while simultaneously denouncing the genocide Israel is committing?

Edited June 25, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Anton Rogachevski]

21 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Anton Rogachevski Are you in support of the measures Israel has been taking against Palestine, which were deemed a genocide by the United Nations?

Is it possible to be against the unlawful acts committed by Palestine while simultaneously denouncing the genocide Israel is committing?

That's absolutely not what I said. I'm against segregation, racism, nationalism, zionism land grabbing with tents kind of shit.
Deeply ashamed about how things turned out. I didn't chose to be brought here by my folks, and I really wish I was more capable of immigrating the hell out of here.

But I really don't like the narrative that was created around the world because of the focus on one side of things, and a lack of focus on the other side. It's easy to blame the big guy, easy to find the villain. Israel is trying its best to protect itself against terrorism while maintaining a democracy and trying its best at achieving peace. It's not an easy task at all when facing the radical islamic movements that have been terrorising Israel, and also the rest of the world for decades now.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Anton Rogachevski

[Harlen Kelly]

44 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Israel is trying its best to protect itself against terrorism while maintaining a democracy and trying its best at achieving peace. It's not an easy task at all when facing the radical islamic movements that have been terrorising Israel, and also the rest of the world for decades now.

The actions taken by Israel are THEMSELVES terrorist actions, surprise, surprise. The ''radical islamic movements'' have not caused 10% of the damage Israel has caused to Palestine and the Palestinian people. 

The government of Israel is a xenophobic, racist, terrorist, war criminal government, so is Hamas.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Vrubel]

2 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

That's absolutely not what I said. I'm against segregation, racism, nationalism, zionism land grabbing with tents kind of shit.
Deeply ashamed about how things turned out. I didn't chose to be brought here by my folks, and I really wish I was more capable of immigrating the hell out of here.

I feel you but there is nothing really wrong with Zionism, the term has been hijacked real bad. It has nothing to do with right-wing nationalism let alone racism. At its core, you are a zionist if you believe that the Jews have a right to their own state. In that regard, I am an unapologetic Zionist.

Zionism has saved millions of Jews from prosecution, oppression and potential genocides namely in middle eastern lands. Also, Israeli contributions in water management and the agriculture sector help feed the entire world. 

Sure, the tragic victims of Israel's existence are the Palestinians and I strongly believe this needs to be corrected by way of compromise.

 

2 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

The government of Israel is a xenophobic, racist, terrorist, war criminal government, so is Hamas.

This kind of hyperbolism just shows a lack of nuance and understanding for Israel's security concerns and traumas. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@Vrubel It's not hyperbolism, the UN has released reports substantiating everything I mentioned about Israel. It is not by any means an exaggeration to assert that the government of Israel is a racist, xenophobic government that is terrorizing Palestine.

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

 Israel's security concerns and traumas. 

What about Palestine's security concerns and traumas?

[Vrubel]

15 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Vrubel It's not hyperbolism, the UN has released reports substantiating everything I mentioned about Israel. It is not by any means an exaggeration to assert that the government of Israel is a racist, xenophobic government that is terrorizing Palestine.

The UN is notoriously laced with simplistic symbolism and hypocrisy. 

20 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

What about Palestine's security concerns and traumas?

Sure, those too are very valid.

[voxun]

Its not black or white, there is alot of grey in the history of this conflict. If you have about 20 hours to spare listen to the first 6 episodes of the Martyrmade podcast which is the most in depth information on the history of this conflict you will ever hear. Its also very entertaining, it rivals hardcore history.

[cookiemonster]

7 hours ago, Vrubel said:

I feel you but there is nothing really wrong with Zionism, the term has been hijacked real bad. It has nothing to do with right-wing nationalism let alone racism. At its core, you are a zionist if you believe that the Jews have a right to their own state. In that regard, I am an unapologetic Zionist.

 

The problem is that if every race or ethnicity demanded their own state then the world would turn into a depressing clusterfuck of ethno-nationalism.

Where would we stop? How would we draw the division in respect of who owns what land and from which time period?

As Malcolm X correctly points out:-

"Only a 1000 years ago Moors lived in Spain. Would this give the Moors of today the legal and moral right to invade and drive out citizens, set up a new nation where Spain used to be, as the Zionists have done to our brothers and sisters in Palestine?" 

Hell, why even use race and ethnicity as a cultural reference? How about a state for bald people? Gay people? I like eating Roast Beef - can I have my own state?

"We the Roast Beefish people are a people without a homeland!"

It's crazy, and is the opposite of high-consciousness. Ethno-states are degenerative in the sense that they retreat back into the primitive mode of group preference, group strategy and tribal identity.

 

[Fadl]

Abbas is a semi-Zionist ... so nothing strange about his actions.

Anyway ... immigrate as soon as possible. just leave.

[Vrubel]

3 hours ago, cookiemonster said:

The problem is that if every race or ethnicity demanded their own state then the world would turn into a depressing clusterfuck of ethno-nationalism.

Where would we stop? How would we draw the division in respect of who owns what land and from which time period?

As Malcolm X correctly points out:-

"Only a 1000 years ago Moors lived in Spain. Would this give the Moors of today the legal and moral right to invade and drive out citizens, set up a new nation where Spain used to be, as the Zionists have done to our brothers and sisters in Palestine?" 

Hell, why even use race and ethnicity as a cultural reference? How about a state for bald people? Gay people? I like eating Roast Beef - can I have my own state?

"We the Roast Beefish people are a people without a homeland!"

It's crazy, and is the opposite of high-consciousness. Ethno-states are degenerative in the sense that they retreat back into the primitive mode of group preference, group strategy and tribal identity.

First of all, this debate is pointless because Israel already exists as a state and it will evolve whichever way. 

Second. You must understand that just because you hold these relativistic notions about nationalities most people do not which has "real-world" consequences. In the "real world" there is a difference between a roast beefish people and a Jewish people as there is a difference between a car and your mother. For one thing you can get targeted for extermination for the other not.    

And thirdly it is normal for a people group to seek independence and freedom (from oppressors). That's what history is about and is still happening with people like the Palestinians, the Kurds, Catalonians, Tibetans etc. And in many ways, I understand and support them.

The Jews just succeeded. I won't apologize for that. 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Vrubel

[cookiemonster]

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

You must understand that just because you hold these relativistic notions about nationalities most people do not which has "real-world" consequences. In the "real world" there is a difference between a roast beefish people and a Jewish people as there is a difference between a car and your mother. For one thing you can get targeted for extermination for the other not.    

And thirdly it is normal for a people group to seek independence and freedom (from oppressors). That's what history is about and is still happening with people like the Palestinians, the Kurds, Catalonians, Tibetans etc. And in many ways, I understand and support them.

The Jews just succeeded. I won't apologize for that. 

 

 

All good points in general, and I empathize with the overall energy.

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

I believe that these are two separated cases that the the Jewish people need a safe haven, and the way the nationalistic religious fantanatics are grabbing land in the west bank, while there's plenty of land elsewhere in Israel. This my friends is just piggery.

Our beloved prime minister Rabin believed the same and was murdered for that by the radical right.