Not sure if I am close to Enlightment or to Wrecking my life?

[Javfly33]

Be free to move this to self actualization or even serious emotional problems, but I would really like an advice from an spirituality-enlightment work perspective, more than from a mental illness perspective.

This morning I woke up with "terrible feeling thoughts". And for the 999th time, I believed them/thought I was them. But a big question out of desperation came up "What the fuuuuuck am going to do with this mind?".

Kind of Eckhart Tolle sort of way before his Enlightment, Yup. But here it hasn't happened yet. And life it's just this weird theatre between bad feeling thoughts most of the time and little short "teases" of realizing my suffering is completely imaginary and created by thoughts. But those instances are like 0.01% of time. Meditation works but it lasts sooo little. I basically have to be doing it constantly to feel at peace from the mind. 

So I do know it's just the mind. I do know what causes me suffering it's just thoughts. I do know I am not my thoughts. I do know the thoughts are NOT the truth! Love is the truth. The present moment. Everything else it's just relative biased thoughts conditioned by my specific ego life and survival strategies. Totally relative. 

However I also must confess, I am not sure if due to late stress, I stumble In between ideas of being super motivated to accomplish everything I wanted in life (stage orange stuff + being optimistic about healing my mental illness) in between fantasizing about leaving everything and bliss myself the fuck out in a cave with no food until I completely heal myself in a hardcore way (Sadghuru type of awakening). Not to say that I am saying I would be able to do it. Just because ...hey, I would prefer doing that that killing myself.

Just to give you context ,even though I feel I did tremendous progress in my last psychedelic trip, it's also true than the following day after tripping, I went to the kitchen and put a knife in my neck and tried to cut me in front of two people (a girl I shared flat with and I liked, and his boyfriend which came by the previous night) It was a theatre, ( because I deliveretely chose a knife that I knew didn't cut almost nothing when I could have taken the one who does cut well ) that I did to be "saved" by them because I felt hated/not loved by them (my best bet of what social anxiety/feelings of unworthiness are)  and by doing that they would help me, because I knew if I did that in front of them suddenly the conversation would switch (they were talking in the kitchen) to Me and my Pain (not my neck pain Lol, but the pain of being feeling bad because of this unworthiness/self hate energy, which got intensely triggered when I heard them having sex for an hour last night when I was still under the lsd effects. So doing that "theatre" was a way of releasing it ).

Yeah...That's probably insane but I must confess I did felt very fucking good about that situation weeks later. I felt kind of guilt for putting them in that uncomfotarble situation, but my My ego did felt the love it was craving by doing that dumb theatre. 

I just think that that's how nasty, unconventional and uncomfotarble some roads to healing get.

Or at least that's what I want to believe. That I am going fine and I'm going "up" in life. But the boyfriend of this girl also adviced me that I should go back to my parents and start over. They didn't know the knife thing was a threate. I don't agree with him, that would be like starting again from scratch, that doesn't win me anything. Staying here though being independent almost guarantees me growth. Yet life seems so highly unstable at times. Yesterday I almost crushed my car. I got distracted because of being in this mental space of stress and kind of angry. So that's not good. 

Mmm don't know I'm honestly not sure where this is going. But I also can't quit right? ???‍♂️ I must keep playing the game..I just can't go back to my parents house and lock myself in the basement.to go play videogames. I just thought life was going to be.... A little.bit easier... when I got out of that "basement"some years ago wanting to become a full healed man.

And of course...that's all a story because life is ain't that hard it's just my mind that keep creating imaginations and Fantasies with thoughts, and I keep believing myself to be them. Mind...could you step up to one side, and let me live for once? ?

[Matt23]

Even though you say you want a spiritual perspective, I'd highly recommend giving more psychological, mental and emotional perspectives a go.  I know i suffered immensely over the years, and still do, and during these times i tried doing lots of meditation and spiritual work, believing that doing only these practices would be enough to "escape" my suffering.  I think i may have even made things worse by ignoring psychological and therapeutic work.  Ever since i started doing IFS therapy, with a therapist at first and then by myself, i notice how much relief i get.  More relief than meditation has given me.  I also am just starting to  work on being authentic with my anger with others, and this practice alone has given me a small experience of feeling like an actual independent and separate self, in a good way.  Like psychological strength as a self.  And that this has made any benefits from meditation seem really small in terms of the positive feelings ive gotten.

 I'm not saying this is what you're doing, I'm assuming.  But if you are, i suggest not dismissing psychological, interpersonal, and individuation work for spiritual work.  Sure, do both.  But it sounds like you could probably swing your pendulum a lot from spirituality to psychological healing and growth.  Just my opinion.  

If you want someone who speaks from both a spiritual and therapeutic perspective, Thomas Hubl is someone I like.  IFS therapy is good too, like i said.  Also Byron Katie's method.  Spiritually speaking, practicing the Brahma Viharas might be beneficial for you (instructions here: https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-vi-my-spiritual-quest/68-magick-and-the-brahma-viharas/the-brahma-viharas/ ).  Finally, David Treleaven's book called Trauma-sensitive mindfulness might be good to read as well, including Willoughby Britton's work.

The more you develop and heal the psychological, you'll then be able to more effectively and enjoyably pursue spirituality.  

Lastly, I once did a counselling session with Martin Ball (the enlightened dmt guy).  His advice for me went something like this:  "Emptiness is always gunna be there.  Go do you.  Find your 'Matt-ness'.  5meo-dmt is good for people who have big egos since it helps demolish them (implying that you gotta have an ego to transcend and let go of before letting go of it)".   

 I'm not saying you can't have spiritual experiences or have it in your life, as i believe spiritual practices can help.  I'm saying though that, probably for most people, balancing developing spirituality with other aspects of life is optimal to getting a more fulfilling, whole, positive, and powerful and even just functional life.  

Don't feel guilt or fear in putting spirituality on hold.  Again, it can help, so I'm not saying dont do it.  Im just saying if you feel or think that you could really use some extra psychological or other help, to not let guilt or fear stop you from reaching out.  

Listen inwardly while also seeing objectively.  

 

[WelcometoReality]

@Javfly33 First I would advice you to get help from professionals if you do in fact have mental illness but you specifically wanted advice from a spirituality/enlightenment perspective so that is what I'll give.

First I would see if there is a willingness to let go of the drama that my mind is creating. If there is I would create an exit strategy when I become aware that I am in one. Often it's just enough to just walk away or simply stop. Find out what works best for you. Sometimes there is drama created in the thoughts about oneself or someone else that is sticky. I'd find an exit strategy for that as well. It could be walks outside or meditation or simply connecting to your presence again.

Then for my own wellbeing I'd set up a daily routine. I was amazed how much this benefitted me. It doesn't have to be to rigid but times when to wake up and go to bed, eating meal, doing meditation and exercise is enough. 

Lastly. Connect to my presence. Be present all the time. Whenever I find myself in thought connect back to presence. Use thought but when you get hooked by thought connect back to presence. The doorway is being this presence be it and magic things tend to happen. Did I say be presence? Be that which you already are. ?

[Breakingthewall]

the thing about eckart tolle only happens to him, and I have my doubts. When you have established mental patterns, they don't go off like that overnight, you have to disassemble them millimeter by millimeter. you know very well what is at stake right? I have seen myself in that circumstance, waking up in the morning and starting in mental bombardment, sleeping 3 hours every night, etc. You are in a war, and things like smoking, masturbating or playing video games are not allowed, unless you want to continue in that hell for many more years. You have to get really serious, and this is actually a blessing, a bit of difficulty builds character. integrity, transparency, seriousness, will and discipline, and you get out of the trap without problem

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, Matt23 said:

.  His advice for me went something like this:  "Emptiness is always gunna be there.  Go do you.  Find your 'Matt-ness'.  5meo-dmt is good for people who have big egos since it helps demolish them (implying that you gotta have an ego to transcend and let go of before letting go of it)".   

 

 

I have this realization some months ago after "trying to get Enlightened" with 5-MeO and realizing that I am not the one who is going to get Enlightened, since "Nothingness/Presence/God" is already "fine" so I need to work on myself (on healing my ego and so on). 

But...not sure how to do it. Will try what you said, but I have this limiting belief that my mental structures are very rigid and solid and sometimes I get depressed because it seems nothing changes.  

[WaveInTheOcean]

before something new can grow, the old has to go away

so I think you are both in some way 

=)  <3 

[Javfly33]

@WaveInTheOcean I just realized an hour ago I don't want money, success, sex, women, not even personal development, I want... SILENCE!!!

Silence from the mind!

Shuuuuuut up! I would like to say to the mind each time it kills my peace.

Have you become free of the mind brother? 

[RMQualtrough]

You put a knife to your neck, I think that is quite a serious matter irrespective of reasoning given. That is not something a mentally well person would do. I would recommend seeing a doctor moreso.

[Javfly33]

3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

You put a knife to your neck, I think that is quite a serious matter irrespective of reasoning given. That is not something a mentally well person would do. I would recommend seeing a doctor moreso.

And what a doctor is going to do for me exactly?

Feels only I can get me out of this rug. 

[RMQualtrough]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And what a doctor is going to do for me exactly?

Feels only I can get me out of this rug. 

Well, I'm on Zoloft. Without Zoloft I have depressive breakdowns every other week. The stigma against brain medicine is unwarranted.

[WaveInTheOcean]

46 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@WaveInTheOcean I just realized an hour ago I don't want money, success, sex, women, not even personal development, I want... SILENCE!!!

Silence from the mind!

Shuuuuuut up! I would like to say to the mind each time it kills my peace.

Have you become free of the mind brother? 

whose peace?

wanting to silence the mind / making it shut up is kind of liking trying to straighten out chaotic water in stream with a flat iron; it will only make it worse.

you gotta accept the mind's business. let it be. it is there to serve you, after all. just observe it. let go of having to change the present moment.

by accepting it fully - surrendering, letting go, breathing through it, you shall slowly begin to see there is no need to change anything. it's already calm

What is not calm - right now in your exp - is your lust to change the present moment.

i have found that the less i try, the better i feel. maybe you're trying too hard.

have faith and trust in the proces.

in order to be free, you first have to be captured

captured = free
free = captured

Edited June 24, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[lmfao]

@Javfly33 Well, so you want silence from the mind. Various meditative gurus and ideologies talk in the language of "withdrawing" from the world. That isn't for me, my interpretation and implementation of that isn't for me. I can't just keep things internally, I've been doing that my entire life. Therefore what's spiritual work to me is the opposite for someone else, and vice versa. 

Prayer and surrender and meditation are key and vital yes, but life itself often presents obstacles. I guess it depends on your life situation and health. 

I understand you want silence from the mind, but maybe consider that carefully and ask what your intention is with all this. 

I get these weird, obsessive, OCD thoughts sometimes. Self consciousness, anxiety, negative fantasies of shame and banishment, etc. I want to overcome these things, but just looking for a shortcut "Silence the mind" is an escapist fantasy for me. Do I still take a spiritual approach to these things? Yes. But there isn't a single carved narrative or teaching path for me. I can follow whatever happens to help.

Edited June 24, 2021 by lmfao

[Javfly33]

@WaveInTheOcean I can't surrender brother. I need to "control" my life, "sort out" the endless thought stories. 

I think a fundamental belief in having lost faith in God, in Reality, is what prevents me to be able to surrender. 

That's why I keep holding on the fire. I am really scared what will I lose, if I let go. 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Well, I'm on Zoloft. Without Zoloft I have depressive breakdowns every other week. The stigma against brain medicine is unwarranted.

I have also consider medication. But my main karma is anxiety and what would work for me would only really be benzos or opioids. With benzos I will be mentally hooked to them forever due to his physical dependence, and opioids let's not even say, I would become a junky for ever too. So what option do I have? Either be in hell the rest of my life, or sort it out naturally

Psychedelics can help but sometimes I just think Im bullshitting myself with them. Something tells me I need to heal myself naturally. 

You think with Zoloft could also help with my mind? I wouldn't say I have depression at all tho

Edited June 24, 2021 by Javfly33

[Mu_]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the thing about eckart tolle only happens to him, and I have my doubts. When you have established mental patterns, they don't go off like that overnight, you have to disassemble them millimeter by millimeter. you know very well what is at stake right? I have seen myself in that circumstance, waking up in the morning and starting in mental bombardment, sleeping 3 hours every night, etc. You are in a war, and things like smoking, masturbating or playing video games are not allowed, unless you want to continue in that hell for many more years. You have to get really serious, and this is actually a blessing, a bit of difficulty builds character. integrity, transparency, seriousness, will and discipline, and you get out of the trap without problem

Oh god forbid you masturbate.

[Mu_]

21 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Be free to move this to self actualization or even serious emotional problems, but I would really like an advice from an spirituality-enlightment work perspective, more than from a mental illness perspective.

This morning I woke up with "terrible feeling thoughts". And for the 999th time, I believed them/thought I was them. But a big question out of desperation came up "What the fuuuuuck am going to do with this mind?".

Kind of Eckhart Tolle sort of way before his Enlightment, Yup. But here it hasn't happened yet. And life it's just this weird theatre between bad feeling thoughts most of the time and little short "teases" of realizing my suffering is completely imaginary and created by thoughts. But those instances are like 0.01% of time. Meditation works but it lasts sooo little. I basically have to be doing it constantly to feel at peace from the mind. 

So I do know it's just the mind. I do know what causes me suffering it's just thoughts. I do know I am not my thoughts. I do know the thoughts are NOT the truth! Love is the truth. The present moment. Everything else it's just relative biased thoughts conditioned by my specific ego life and survival strategies. Totally relative. 

However I also must confess, I am not sure if due to late stress, I stumble In between ideas of being super motivated to accomplish everything I wanted in life (stage orange stuff + being optimistic about healing my mental illness) in between fantasizing about leaving everything and bliss myself the fuck out in a cave with no food until I completely heal myself in a hardcore way (Sadghuru type of awakening). Not to say that I am saying I would be able to do it. Just because ...hey, I would prefer doing that that killing myself.

Just to give you context ,even though I feel I did tremendous progress in my last psychedelic trip, it's also true than the following day after tripping, I went to the kitchen and put a knife in my neck and tried to cut me in front of two people (a girl I shared flat with and I liked, and his boyfriend which came by the previous night) It was a theatre, ( because I deliveretely chose a knife that I knew didn't cut almost nothing when I could have taken the one who does cut well ) that I did to be "saved" by them because I felt hated/not loved by them (my best bet of what social anxiety/feelings of unworthiness are)  and by doing that they would help me, because I knew if I did that in front of them suddenly the conversation would switch (they were talking in the kitchen) to Me and my Pain (not my neck pain Lol, but the pain of being feeling bad because of this unworthiness/self hate energy, which got intensely triggered when I heard them having sex for an hour last night when I was still under the lsd effects. So doing that "theatre" was a way of releasing it ).

Yeah...That's probably insane but I must confess I did felt very fucking good about that situation weeks later. I felt kind of guilt for putting them in that uncomfotarble situation, but my My ego did felt the love it was craving by doing that dumb theatre. 

I just think that that's how nasty, unconventional and uncomfotarble some roads to healing get.

Or at least that's what I want to believe. That I am going fine and I'm going "up" in life. But the boyfriend of this girl also adviced me that I should go back to my parents and start over. They didn't know the knife thing was a threate. I don't agree with him, that would be like starting again from scratch, that doesn't win me anything. Staying here though being independent almost guarantees me growth. Yet life seems so highly unstable at times. Yesterday I almost crushed my car. I got distracted because of being in this mental space of stress and kind of angry. So that's not good. 

Mmm don't know I'm honestly not sure where this is going. But I also can't quit right? ???‍♂️ I must keep playing the game..I just can't go back to my parents house and lock myself in the basement.to go play videogames. I just thought life was going to be.... A little.bit easier... when I got out of that "basement"some years ago wanting to become a full healed man.

And of course...that's all a story because life is ain't that hard it's just my mind that keep creating imaginations and Fantasies with thoughts, and I keep believing myself to be them. Mind...could you step up to one side, and let me live for once? ?

Maybe stop being so needy of attention, peace of mind, having a exact experience the way you want it.....

If that doesn't sink in, dont dwell on it, that wont help either....

[RMQualtrough]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I have also consider medication. But my main karma is anxiety and what would work for me would only really be benzos or opioids. With benzos I will be mentally hooked to them forever due to his physical dependence, and opioids let's not even say, I would become a junky for ever too. So what option do I have? Either be in hell the rest of my life, or sort it out naturally

Psychedelics can help but sometimes I just think Im bullshitting myself with them. Something tells me I need to heal myself naturally. 

You think with Zoloft could also help with my mind? I wouldn't say I have depression at all tho

I'm on Zoloft for anxiety mainly, it is just that I also suffered with depression and when home alone etc that is what would attack me.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Oh god forbid you masturbate.

Of course you can, but we already know what I mean, to lose yourself in compulsive sex, in addictions. If you are in that situation you have to be firm, it is not a situation that can be solved with two adjustments, it is a real challenge. It is about correcting the course that leads you directly to chronic depression, it is no joke! 

But before i forgot the most necessary: humility. humility to accept what is, to not need to be more or less than anyone else, to understand that everything that is is perfect

Edited June 24, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[lark]

I spend a lot of time in silence and that has helped me.

The last 4 years after my awakening have been the hardest but most rewarding years in my life.

I have had a lot of emotional issues having to come to surface.

Remember to be kind and gentle to yourself.

And if you need medical help do not hesitate.

This guy says it nicely.

 

 

All the best!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by lark

[Eren Eeager]

@Javfly33

you need grounding. Ground yourself. Work on the basics.Enlightenment work requires serious levels of discipline and emotional development. If you're lacking those then you will never attain enlightenment. Work your self up. I have been getting a lot fuckng around vibes from your posts. I think your fucking around. Spirtuality and enlightenment can become the perfect excuse for not taking life seriously enough and not working on your development and life purpose. If you're doing this you are will not attain enlightenment and you will fuck up your life.

So what's the solution? The solution is to swallow the hard pill and take the long road. Forget about spirtuality for now and work on the basics. In a few years you will be much happier, stronger and more mature psychologically and you will be able to handle spiritual truths.