Why psychedelics strips away my gender and sexuality?

[mivafofa]

I'd like to know whether it's common or not. There was one time I was convinced momentarily I was actually a man in drag, despite wearing unisex sportwear. Then another time I became some kind of gender neutral guru towards the end of the trip.

Most recently I took some shroom with my man. Aside from the profound insights I was having, somehow his charms had suddenly zero effect on me. When he tried to hug me, it felt like a bro hug. When he kissed me, I felt nothing.  Even his natural odor didn't appeal to me anymore.  It's like I turn asexual voided of genders. It only happens during trips. When it's over, my gender and sexuality comes back. My man smells good again.

It's not a problem but I'm puzzled as to Why?
Does it happen to anyone else?

[Gili Trawangan]

Because you're not really a woman 

Don't worry, you're not a man either... your true nature is neither man nor woman. Psychedelics tend to temporarily destroy the layers of identification with form. I'm sure by now you've heard that all is one. Would you be sexually attracted to yourself?

[mivafofa]

16 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

Would you be sexually attracted to yourself?

I guess not.. It all makes sense now

[MatteO22]

@mivafofa psychedelics tend to turn off the mechanisms that motivate you via conditioning, insecurity and inauthentic expressions of yourself.

 

Would you say that there may be insecure aspects to why you’re attracted to certain things in relationships? Similarly, would you say that there are insecure aspects of what gender represents to you ?

 

and the psychedelics are like - well what if it didn’t have to be that way ? What if your self worth was complete and whole - would you be motivated differently ? 
 

So much of what we do and desire in relationships is silly human games. When you feel like a demi-god who can birth planets into existence (that was my experience), the silly human games suddenly feel irrelevant.

[Vynce]

Wonder if vice versa sexuality and identification with gender gets increased if you get more unconscious through drinking alcohol or consume too much junk media. 

 

[mivafofa]

10 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

Would you say that there may be insecure aspects to why you’re attracted to certain things in relationships? Similarly, would you say that there are insecure aspects of what gender represents to you ?

Could you elaborate this part more, with examples? I've been unravelling my mind for hours to find out where I could have any of what you're talking about.  Maybe inauthentic expression of self could be make sense, but gender or attraction insecurity you speak of I can't relate. 

[MatteO22]

1 minute ago, mivafofa said:

Could you elaborate this part more, with examples? I've been unravelling my mind for hours to find out where I could have any of what you're talking about.  Maybe inauthentic expression of self could be make sense, but gender or attraction insecurity you speak of I can't relate. 

Sure. Gender comes with many socialised standards, expectations  and connotations. What it means to be a woman - to you ? What were you told about womanhood by your family ? What were the messages you received about womanhood indirectly ? What were the societal pressures about womanhood that you experienced ? 
If you were to fill in the blank - I am a woman, and therefore I… ‘ - first thing that comes to mind is usually correct representation of what partially runs in your subconscious. 

Similarly - what were you taught about relationships by your parents ? What was the relationship between your parents like ? Happy and healthy ? Tumultuous ? Passive aggressive ? Emotionally sterile ? Codependent ? - as a child you soak all this info in as a blueprint for relationships and attraction. 
 

the psychedelic plant can for a moment just take all that baggage aside and show you how you might feel when some of those pressures (probably not all of them) are taken away. - what it’s like to free yourself up from your conditioning for a moment. Do you feel different ? Do you choose different things ? 
 

Good questions. You don’t always need to find the right answer, but in the asking of the question itself you open up space for expansion !  

[impulse9]

Because gender and sexuality are your spiritual clothes, and psychedelics like to strip you naked.

[mivafofa]

@MatteO22 To be quite frank, these questions don't mean anything to me personally... Gender-wise I always did whatever I wanted or not wanted despite what society or my parents told me how a woman is supposed to act or be like, and I never felt bad about it.  I still can't relate to what you're saying, but maybe if you gave some concrete examples of these "insecure aspects"..?

--------

34 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Because gender and sexuality are your spiritual clothes, and psychedelics like to strip you naked.

 

14 hours ago, Gili Trawangan said:

Psychedelics tend to temporarily destroy the layers of identification with form. 

 

Does that mean both of you also experience this gender and sexuality stripping during trips? 

[impulse9]

No two psychedelic trips are alike, more likely than not the entheogen has lessons for you, and that's why it showed you what it did.

Edited June 23, 2021 by impulse9

[MatteO22]

@mivafofa Well when I ask what your parents’ relationship was like it’s rather an objective answer, not necessarily whether it means something to you.

 

it’s impossible to not be affected by your parents relationship. You receive subconscious messages all the time.

 

Even saying ‘I did everything as I wanted’ was likely a reaction to your environment. So it’s more of a question of becoming aware of your childhood conditioning and how you grew up and how it shaped you. 
 

when you say ‘those questions don’t mean anything to me’ - do you have a reason to not want your childhood mean anything to you ? It means something to all of us, even if you feel like it means nothing - what do you gain by labelling those experiences as meaningless ? 

[mivafofa]

11 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

Even saying ‘I did everything as I wanted’ was likely a reaction to your environment. 

I know that very well. And that's exactly what I learned from my upbringing: not to care what my parents, then later escalated to what society, has to say about my gender. Because my parents especially my mother had so blatant misconceptions about womanhood and manhood, even the child-me could catch on. So I got unintentionally trained early on to question and defy comformity by the hand of authority. Eventually doing what feels right for me gender/sexuality-wise has become second nature.  That's why the questions you asked meant nothing to me personally. 

I was hoping for some concrete examples to understand better, but it's fine, the more I read, the more I don't think it could be that.  Although it's quite interesting still. 

40 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

No two psychedelic trips are alike, more likely than not the entheogen has lessons for you, and that's why it showed you what it did.

Right, of course... it showed me many things, but the gender/sexuality stripping was not smthg it "showed" me, it was a state of being, like a constant by-product of my psychedelic trips.  You think that itself is a lesson..? ? 

[MatteO22]

2 minutes ago, mivafofa said:

So I got unintentionally trained early on to question and defy comformity by the hand of authority.

Well there you go. That’s what I’ve been low-key waiting for you to say. I’ll just leave you with this unless you wanna continue this dialogue. Living in non-conformity is a state of rebellion. When you emotionally live in rebellion, it’s a state of invisible imprisonment - because to rebel you always have to have an antagonist to rebel and defend against. And my only question is…

 

dont you get tired of always needing to fight and fend for yourself ? I mean damn girl If you live as a non-conformist, you probably won’t allow yourself to receive enough support. Because you’re somewhat always on a battle field. On the lookout for danger… haven’t you had enough? Hasn’t it been too hard for too long ? Don’t you deserve better ? 
 

I think you do. And I don’t mean to cross any lines, but I think you deserve more support than you’ve ever had the chance to receive. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

I get hyper sexual for some parts of my trip when I drink ayahuasca.

I think we are all different/unique ; after all, that is what makes Infinity One ???????

[mivafofa]

On 23/06/2021 at 3:19 AM, Vynce said:

Wonder if vice versa sexuality and identification with gender gets increased if you get more unconscious through drinking alcohol

It's so funny you mention that.  I never made the connection! I do get inexplicably hyper feminine and sensual the few times I was drunk. There must be a correlation...

 

22 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

Living in non-conformity is a state of rebellion. When you emotionally live in rebellion, it’s a state of invisible imprisonment - because to rebel you always have to have an antagonist to rebel and defend against. And my only question is…

dont you get tired of always needing to fight and fend for yourself ? I mean damn girl If you live as a non-conformist, you probably won’t allow yourself to receive enough support. Because you’re somewhat always on a battle field. On the lookout for danger… haven’t you had enough? Hasn’t it been too hard for too long ? Don’t you deserve better ? 

I think you do. And I don’t mean to cross any lines, but I think you deserve more support than you’ve ever had the chance to receive. 

Just to be sure, are you suggesting that I mightve been too caught up rebelling and going against the grains, so much that it has ultimately also push me further from my authenticity in gender and sexuality identification? 

 

22 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

I get hyper sexual for some parts of my trip when I drink ayahuasca.

I think we are all different/unique ; after all, that is what makes Infinity One ???????

I see thx for sharing your exp.. So agender and asexual is not that common during trips after all.. No one here said they experience the same so far.. 

[MatteO22]

2 minutes ago, mivafofa said:

Just to be sure, are you suggesting that I mightve been too caught up rebelling and going against the grains, so much that it has ultimately also push me further from my authenticity in gender and sexuality identification? 

Somewhat yes. If there’s a part of you that finds value in rebelling, that precise part of you will see gender identity as a prison to conform to and something that threatens its freedom, therefore there may be an unconscious desire to reject the identity of gender.

 

Similarly, the same non-conformist you might see relationship and the commitment it represents as a problem, because it’s sense of freedom would be threatened once more, which would explain why you may have felt like the attraction to your SO went away.

 

What might have happened during the trip was just that the part of you that doesn’t wanna be tied down by anyone or anything came to the surface and sort of took over, and showed itself in its full glory, so you can integrate it. Which I think is a great growth opportunity.  
 

This particular issue I can actually relate to. I used to be a huge commitment/authority/identification with stereotypical roles phobe. Just as you described, I hated the roles I was put in as a child and craved to have my own sense of autonomy and freedom (even though I think it might’ve been different from yours). And yet, over time I realised I had to surrender to the trauma I was running away from, which was terrifying and painful. And in some ways I’m still integrating that, but the alternative would’ve been awful. 

[RendHeaven]

Totally normal.

[mivafofa]

@MatteO22 Sorry I empathize with your situation a lot but most of it I don't really relate... No part of me sees gender identity as a prison to conform, in or out the trip. It hasn't been my reality. Gender & sexuality itself have always been a freeing part of my life. Like I told you I had the luxury to feel carelessly comfortable doing whatever felt right for me early on gender/sexuality-wise. I don't feel the trippy void of them (asexuality & agender) was an expression of freedom, but rather a detachment of it. It was also a state of being. Thx for the effort of digging with me nonetheless. It was interesting insights.

 

18 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Totally normal.

Does it happen to you too? 

[MatteO22]

@mivafofa no worries all good! 

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, mivafofa said:

Does it happen to you too? 

Yes, I know what it's like for my male-ness to melt away; for my fierce desire for women to be replaced by a fierce desire for men.

As long as there is identification with "my ego," I am straight and hetero as fuck.

The moment "my ego" becomes see-through, there are no more boundaries or rules.