The value of marriage & kids

[Terell Kirby]

@SgtPepper thanks for providing a different perspective, this did kind of turn into marriage bashing lol.

There are good marriages out there, but people don't realize it's the people that make the marriage, not the marriage that makes the people. Of course two codependent/toxic individuals would have a hellish marriage..just like two healthy people would have a fulfilling marriage.

We tend to crap on the idea of marriage as a whole, versus taking a hard look at the individuals involved.

[Heaven]

Do what you love and that feels good both in past experiences and in the present. Understand the consequences of getting married(Legally wise..)
Nothing is forever and trying too hard to control will lead to suffering.

I personally think that marriage and having kids can be a useful way to enjoy, survive and thrive in society. Most of my close circle have their family and it can be nice to experience it together with them.

 

[Mason Riggle]

@Terell Kirby wasn't trying to crap on marriage.. heck, I'm married, it's awesome.  There's a ton of value in it, societally, and individually... but there's a reason for the cliché 'nothing good comes easy', is all I'm saying. 
 

[SgtPepper]

1 hour ago, Terell Kirby said:

it's the people that make the marriage, not the marriage that makes the people. Of course two codependent/toxic individuals would have a hellish marriage..just like two healthy people would have a fulfilling marriage.

I agree. 

In my experience, people are too cynical and selfish to see the powerful vision of what a long enduring intimate relationship could bring. We're talking about true security and deep intimacy. 

Of course these qualities are worked on, you cannot just expect this without putting in the work with another person. But do people actually take an interest in that? No they just bitch about their partner. it's weak and lame as f***. 

It's like expecting to feel healthy while eating a bad diet. 

Some of the benefits are:

Teach us how to love

Teach us how to forgive

How to embrace challenge that builds character

Teach us about non-duality through duality.

How to serve others

Access to deeper forms of intimacy

How to respect others

Discipline & self-control

Access to consistent feedback from our partners so we can become better individuals.

Marriage is spiritually the formation of two egos into one, a collective ego. A collective ego can do more than by themselves. 

Being a monk is an equally respectable path though. You just marry God instead. however, if I'm being honest with myself though, I love having a feminine companion in my life and I don't think it stops us from having valid experiences of non-duality cause aren't we all God anyways?

 

[MatteO22]

2 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

I agree. 

In my experience, people are too cynical and selfish to see the powerful vision of what a long enduring intimate relationship could bring. We're talking about true security and deep intimacy. 

Of course these qualities are worked on, you cannot just expect this without putting in the work with another person. But do people actually take an interest in that? No they just bitch about their partner. it's weak and lame as f***. 

It's like expecting to feel healthy while eating a bad diet. 

Some of the benefits are:

Teach us how to love

Teach us how to forgive

How to embrace challenge that builds character

Teach us about non-duality through duality.

How to serve others

Access to deeper forms of intimacy

How to respect others

Discipline & self-control

Access to consistent feedback from our partners so we can become better individuals.

Marriage is spiritually the formation of two egos into one, a collective ego. A collective ego can do more than by themselves. 

Being a monk is an equally respectable path though. You just marry God instead. however, if I'm being honest with myself though, I love having a feminine companion in my life and I don't think it stops us from having valid experiences of non-duality cause aren't we all God anyways?

 

I love this guy, we need more of people like you on the forum !  

[bejapuskas]

7 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

@bejapuskas I still see no argument from your side on why should men get officially married nowadays. Also, you're ignoring incompatibility here, and that sometimes, couples were simply never meant to be together. Do you want them to find that out once they're already married and have kids? Just because you have 100% control of almost everything in your life, doesn't mean mistakes cannot be made. And mistake in choosing a partner for marriage can cost you a lot, especially as a man.

No man, I am not denying compatibility, I think it is important. But I don't think most divorces happen because the woman wants to gain something. 

7 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

Very simplistic of you. You just looked at the big picture and said "Animals endangered, hoomans not!" Yeah, of course that's true, but what's also true is that society has to have some minimal birth rate in order to function. Otherwise, the population will start to get older and older, and there will not be enough young people that can take care of old people. Do you want to die alone in some retirement home, having noone to take care of you?

Good point.

18 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Do you need to enter a governmental/contractual agreement to foment a loving, long-term, interdependent relationship with your partner?

No. But it is not contradictory to it.

18 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

High divorce rates are a feature of modernity, secularism, and egalitarianism, not a bug. The countries that rank the highest in terms of egalitarianism and protection for women in general are the countries with some the highest divorce rates, and the countries that rank low in egalitarianism have some of the lowest divorce rates such as iran, kenya, turkey, to name a few.

The more advanced and equal societies become, the more irrelevant traditions such as marriage become. 

Yeh like if there is more gender equality in a country and women are not shamed for divorcing their partners, of course, they will be less afraid to divorce and the statistics will be more. You know, in these countries you named, there is so much patriarchy. Sometimes these statistics are also skewed and they tell you nothing if you don't look at the context of the country, you can't look at Iran, Kenya and Turkey through western lense and see it just like you see US or Norway. In India, divorce rate is 2 %, but like 95 % marriages are arranged and most people have trauma from their parents and the relationships often end up going terribly wrong... It can work but like marrying willingly is better.

[Harlen Kelly]

3 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

people that make the marriage, not the marriage that makes the people. Of course two codependent/toxic individuals would have a hellish marriage..just like two healthy people would have a fulfilling marriage.

We tend to crap on the idea of marriage as a whole, versus taking a hard look at the individuals involved.

You are missing something crucial. The trend for the past 30 years has been an exponential increase of divorce rates, and an exponential decrease of marriage rates. 

That trend will not be reversed. Marriage is nothing more than a traditional custom that will not be regarded as relevant in particularly advanced societies. 

@bejapuskas My point is that the concept of marriage will lose its importance as societies evolve until it eventually becomes an outdated custom.

There is nothing special or rational about marriage, it is just tradition.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Byun Sean]

My advice to you would be to tailor your life so that it maximizes your spiritual development/ growth in your consciousness however that may look like.

 

With or without marriage and kids consciousness should be your #1 priority. Everything other than consciousness work is either just for fun or

absolutely necessary for survival.

Consciousness is the crown jewel of all of personal development and the most fulfilling thing to pursue in life hands down. Beyond relationships, money, etc.

Now this assumes you have your survival successfully handled that you can care deeply and invest deeply into spiritual work.

So life is a bit of a balance between survival demands and spiritual/ purpose work. 

The two are not totally separate at all though. 

 

Getting really good at survival will give you the infrastructure you need to focus time and energy into spiritual work. 

Similarly, doing spiritual work will make you a whole lot more fulfilled, satisfied, energized, and passionate in your life making day to day survival

a whole lot more pleasant and less stressful.

 

If you become spiritually developed enough. Married with kids or alone. It won't matter. You will be able to do whatever is needed and

be happy about it.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Harlen Kelly What about the legal and tax benefits to being married?

If you were raising a family together what would be the argument for not getting married?

[Emerald]

28 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

I agree. 

In my experience, people are too cynical and selfish to see the powerful vision of what a long enduring intimate relationship could bring. We're talking about true security and deep intimacy. 

Of course these qualities are worked on, you cannot just expect this without putting in the work with another person. But do people actually take an interest in that? No they just bitch about their partner. it's weak and lame as f***. 

It's like expecting to feel healthy while eating a bad diet. 

Some of the benefits are:

Teach us how to love

Teach us how to forgive

How to embrace challenge that builds character

Teach us about non-duality through duality.

How to serve others

Access to deeper forms of intimacy

How to respect others

Discipline & self-control

Access to consistent feedback from our partners so we can become better individuals.

Marriage is spiritually the formation of two egos into one, a collective ego. A collective ego can do more than by themselves. 

Being a monk is an equally respectable path though. You just marry God instead. however, if I'm being honest with myself though, I love having a feminine companion in my life and I don't think it stops us from having valid experiences of non-duality cause aren't we all God anyways?

 

Your post definitely reflects the potential that I see within marriage. When you enter into a marriage, you have the opportunity to learn and grown through the embodiment of the sacred marriage archetype. And this takes a lot of work and honesty and communication and boundary setting.

And I think, because of our lack of awareness of what intimacy means, most marriages are probably terrible. I'm so surprised that the divorce rate is only at 50%. I think the lion's share of the 50% is coming from social pressure and keeping a stiff upper lip. 

But in a marriage that truly embodies the sacred marriage, there is a real path to spiritual and non-spiritual growth. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@Byun Sean Based.

[Heaven]

Do what you love and that feels good both in past experiences and in the present. Understand the consequences of getting married(Legally wise..)
Nothing is forever and trying too hard to control will lead to suffering.

I personally think that marriage and having kids can be a useful way to enjoy, survive and thrive in society. Most of my close circle have their family and it can be nice to experience it together with them.

 

[bejapuskas]

On 23. 6. 2021 at 8:34 PM, Harlen Kelly said:

You are missing something crucial. The trend for the past 30 years has been an exponential increase of divorce rates, and an exponential decrease of marriage rates. 

That trend will not be reversed. Marriage is nothing more than a traditional custom that will not be regarded as relevant in particularly advanced societies. 

@bejapuskas My point is that the concept of marriage will lose its importance as societies evolve until it eventually becomes an outdated custom.

There is nothing special or rational about marriage, it is just tradition.

I actually kind of agree with you, more than half of world marriages in the world are arranged, which smells patriarchy.