How Many People Are Enlightened?

[VeganAwake]

@MuddyBoots I completely understand, this kind of inquiry can be very frustrating..you're doing just fine and right where you need to be... just accept it for what it is. Remember "it is what it is."

Your statement reminded me of a wonderful quote that helped me along my journey from A Course in Miracles- " Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists, herein lies the peace of God".

One way to look at it is "there are no enlightened people, just enlightened actions". We are not divided just because of the thought that we are divided. In other words the thoughts or feelings of separation that an ego portrays does not make it true. 

We are waves in the same ocean just as my individual cells are still a part of my whole body. 

From the time we are born we are born into a culture that starts telling us who and what we are and we buy into that belief. Whatever cultural norms and religions are pushed on us we usually adopt them just assuming they are the truth.

During Awakening you simply realize everything you thought you believed you were, was just somebody else's idea's and your own conditioned belief's about yourself. 

Once this fall self is realized you are left asking the question, if I wasn't  who I thought I was, then who am I?

[zeroISinfinity]

@VeganAwake Everything regarding Spirituality is Actual. 

Even awakening is Actual experience. You Will have trillion questions after Awakening because literally everything You ever tought about yourself, world, others would be False and incorrect. You Will for example realize(not conceptually) that this forum is actually You. Mind bending ultra high paradoxical stuff, logic is unable to define GOD. 

 

Personality does indeed stays but authentic one. 

You never were human self You made That up(that's what Leo regards as hallucination). 

What is Actual is Love. All of this is Love literally. Not so easy to see without awakening. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Aakash]

@VeganAwake

haha "everything is one" the only words used by all beings to describe their direct experience (is and is not) ... is one 

oddly enough, i like what you've said through out our conversation. 

meditative falling away sounds like an action or focus, but i guess its not at the same time. 

one can''t be too picky when were dealing with less than 1% of the population

thanks buddy, there seems to be 5 different enlightenment experiences, each proclaiming theirs is the right and entire one. LoL we just playing roulette with each other. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[zeroISinfinity]

@Aakash All of Reality is actually your body. That is what is meant by "all is one". You, silly. 

Practises are important because without them You Will never be able to access Formlessness, Underlying Reality. Why it isn't the case yet. Because You still are much more interested in success of God's idea called @Aakash then in actual Truth. 

God is not stupid. 

 

 

 

 

[Aakash]

 your right 

thanks i've decided my coin flip now 

FATE and FAITH 

thats the commonality of all of the five enlightenment experiences

We all just let the wind takes us where it blows. then we toot that horn this is FAITH 

We all says ours is the correct one, but the paradox is you cant live the same route as someone else, so which one is right? this is FATE 

 

This is the metaphysical problem with a holon. 

its inescapable even to itself. 

mathematically 

direct experience (i) = direct experience [ ]2 

direct experience (ii) = direct experience [ ]2

direct experience [ ]1 = direct experience [ ]2

 ( direct experience (i) = direct experience (ii) = direct experience [ ] 1) = direct experience [ ]2  

take what you will from that, it is the mathematical proof for fate

see its inescapable, all parts of the holon lead back into the whole of the holon which lead back into the part of the holon to infinity. to the point that even fate itself, faith bestowed to be "truth" would still face the exact same issue. Exactly how this message isn't being transmitted into your mind. because direct experience [ ]2 won't allow it for direct experience

its groundless period to relative realities. its ground to a single reality. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[PenguinPablo]

@Bruno there are a couple here already

On 2/11/2016 at 4:06 PM, Bruno said:

You know it would be pretty awesome if someone enlightened joined the forum

 

[VeganAwake]

This was something I wrote a while back I thought I would share with you guys ,it has a lot of Leo influence obviously:

Words like God confuse people because everyone has a different understanding/belief of what God is. Forget everything you ever thought you knew about who or what God is. Don't label it, don't name it, don't attempt to understand it. Treat it as if you were experiencing it for the very first time like a young child. Now imagine an absolutely infinite, all encompassing and ever-expanding field of Consciousness that expands outward from earth, in all directions with no ending, no boundaries, it literally includes every possibility that ever could  be thought, and excludes nothing although paradoxically it includes nothing because it's absolute Infinity and it includes nothing also hehe, its absolutely completely Total. Welcome to Absolute Infinity or GOD. SURPRISE!!! hope you packed your bags because this ride appears to have no ending. There are no right or wrong religions/belief systems or false gods because everything is actually God including us. You simply cannot go wrong in this game. 

[Aakash]

@VeganAwake although what you can be correct in multiple ways. There is actually only one "hard problem" with consciousness or absolute infinity, its: 

what does it mean to go outside of consciousness. 

we each only have one direct experience, each attempt we consider outside of consciousness, but actually it still falls within consciousness. This is how your statement above is true. 

The correct attempt is to make no attempt, but what does this look like ? see 

how do we make an action that is not an action, 

it all comes down to this line here 

"what did you focus on" ... The realm of no focus is nirvana 

but when i try to imply it to people using indirect words, i get told to practice 

but this becomes a paradox 

what did you mean by practice? what did you mean by meditate? 

if they truly understood, one can simply just say the words i said above, it can be explained... but it can't because i think what people consider to be no focus is still something attained within consciousness, but they haven't realised it themselves. 

it would go something like this: 

"focus on not focusing but realising that even not focusing is still an attempt at focusing"

but i haven't heard these words yet. and if i do i assume they're still in indifferent reality as opposed to undifferentiated reality. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[Aakash]

But do you see, this defeats the point of  having a life 

, you won't even realise god yourself because you'd be god. There would be no realisation

you'll just be nothing. That's it, 

 

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, Aakash said:

But do you see, this defeats the point of  having a life 

, you won't even realise god yourself because you'd be god. There would be no realisation

you'll just be nothing. That's it, 

 

 

Wrong. 

[Aakash]

@zeroISinfinity   who knows lol 

i feel like doing it, just because i'm so annoyed that i can't agree with anyone about truth.. that's the only positive

24 hours.  and let me know

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[VeganAwake]

@Aakash  don't make roadblocks where there are no roadblocks, for example there is no problem with Consciousness or absolute Infinity. The only outside of Consciousness that I'm aware of is called Maya the illusion of the self... which that samadhi movie explains very well... please check it out if you haven't already.

Awareness Consciousness God absolute Infinity truth are all words describing the same thing. But remember words are not the thing itself...the map is not the territory.

I really need to put a strong emphasis on there is "Nothing To Attain." 

Here is a definition to assist: The verb attain means to achieve, accomplish, or succeed in reaching a goal (usually through some effort). The verb obtain means to acquire or get possession of something.

Your false self or your ego is the thing seeking and trying to attain something.

Your true self is the nothingness underneath all the layers of your false self.. it has been there all along underneath your nose and you just need to see it. That's what is meant by you are already enlightened.

This true self is the essence of existence itself. It is the unchangeable truth of what you are.

Shed the layers of your false self, realize the unchanging infinite self that was always there, the veil of Illusion or Maya was just stopping you from seeing it clearly. 

Hope this helps. Remember the biggest obstacle to Discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

In this work you have to empty your glass. If you think you already have the answers you will not go through the difficult work of dropping your false self and realizing your true nature.

 

 

[Aakash]

@VeganAwake i checked it out, because i'm interested in enlightened beings and you are one. So to get more information on you, i checked it out 

it had some interesting points, but it was just talking about absolute infinity. I couldn't distinguish it from what i was talking about because it's like i said.. its a hard problem. 

you don't need to emphasis it, you are correct there is nothing to attain since it already is 

what you've said above, is the exact same definition as mine.. yet we can't agree and you still never acknowledged what i said about the non-method legitmate. 

is that your final answer? 

what i said is illegitimate? about 

"focus on not focusing but realising that even not focusing is still an attempt at focusing"

[zeroISinfinity]

@Aakash Do the practises let go of atleast some thinking. Keep Curiosity. 

Only reason why You are interested in Omniscience is because You think You Will gain Something. Drop and let go. 

Return to practises. 

It Will Come when You are really ready. Do not underestimate growth.

Self Realization is pretty much greatest gift of Source to you. 

Be Good love Everything and You Will be fine. 

Good luck on your journey. 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Aakash]

@zeroISinfinity   your not acknowledging the practice i've put before you as legitamate, 

"focus on not focusing but realising that even not focusing is still an attempt at focusing"

your telling me to do a practice, as if there is something i can focus on. 

do you see the contradiction here?

anyways its okay, it doesn't matter anymore ... i'm not here to persuade anybody on this forum,  just trying to find someone who's experience relates to what i've said. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[bejapuskas]

@Aakash  You have to focus on those words and thoughts to make up that statement.

[VeganAwake]

@Aakash  I found this online and it might be of service to you. Like I said before, in my meditation practice I did not focus or avoid any thoughts. I just simply noticed them and let them pass along. Think of yourself in a tall tower watching the clouds( your thoughts) blow by, simply notice them and let them Blow by.

THINKING cannot be stopped. Not that it does not stop, but it cannot be stopped. It stops of its own accord. This distinction has to be understood, otherwise you can go mad chasing your mind. No-mind does not arise by stopping thinking. When the thinking is no more, no-mind is. The very effort to stop will create more anxiety, it will create conflict, it will make you split. You will be in a constant turmoil within. This is not going to help.”

However, Osho admits that if you forcibly try to stop thinking, you may succeed. However, he warns that you won’t experience true stillness:

“And even if you succeed in stopping it forcibly for a few moments, it is not an achievement at all — because those few moments will be almost dead, they will not be alive. You may feel a sort of stillness, but not silence, because a forced stillness is not silence. Underneath it, deep in the unconscious, the repressed mind goes on working. So, there is no way to stop the mind. But the mind stops — that is certain. It stops of its own accord

[Aakash]

@VeganAwake yes this is not about stillness, stillness is within consciousness or absolute infinity. 

Yes those moments will be dead, that is the point. 

Yes the subconscious mind may still play but this is besides the point. The forced stopping is the important part. 

Thinking is a survival mechanism. You must acknowledge that nothing has happened. This is when thinking has stopped. 

Its close, certainly the first piece of information found that I resonate even the slightest with. Thank you it was a great help

i have a return piece of information, what does your experience tell you about this article? 

https://www.learnreligions.com/enlightenment-and-nirvana-449967  

Edited September 15, 2019 by Aakash

[VeganAwake]

@Aakash  you are very welcome!! I enjoy talking with people even when the topic is challenging to put into words.

Regarding your earlier mention about my direct experience, here is what happend to me.

I realized all the things that I believed myself to be, was simply just an idea, a concept, an opinion, or a perception. It was not the truth of who I really was. 

After that I had an almost complete quieting of the mind for about a day and a half. During that time I ask myself... what am I then?

The answer was nothing I am absolutely nothing.

It's not the same nothing as most people think of...

Peter Ralston talks a little bit about this in some of the interviews with Leo. It's also on that samadhi video!

Good luck on your journey my friend...

[Aakash]

@VeganAwake what you said was 

"i am an illusion, that illusion is something, it is "

this is what you told yourself, 

what did you think of the article?