What's Normal in a Relationship?

[soos_mite_ah]

So I'm talking to this guy I met on tinder and we made a plan to go on our first date in a few days. He's texting me everyday. It isn't coming off as clingy because it's mostly "hey, how's your day?" kind of stuff but to me it feels too frequent. I don't even talk to my friends on a daily basis so this feels like a little much considering we aren't even that close yet and we haven't even gone on a date. I guess my idea of normal might be like twice a week or longer without contact? Then again I tend to have lower social needs than a lot of people.  Is talking to someone you're dating everyday normal or am I just not used to this much attention from one person? 

Also, since I'm at this topic of what is normal in a relationship, what is a normal pace of a relationship? I'm familiar about what is rushed and why that can come with a plethora of red flags but I'm not sure what's a regular, healthy pace. How long does it take before you guys actually feel like yall know each other?  How long is it until you actually develop feelings for each other and a sense of excitement? How long does it normally take before you guys say "I love you" to each other? What's a normal amount of time to date someone before getting into a commitment with them? 

[MatteO22]

@soos_mite_ah fantastic question. You might want to look at attachment styles and how they each navigate the dating stage. From your description you might be leaning a little more on the avoidant side (which would make sense given what I’ve been able to learn about you in our short interactions on the forum). Here’s a great video describing that (the imortant part starts at 4 minutes)

 

She has also videos on every other attachment style in the dating stage (and all kinds of other videos). Chances are that the guy might be probably anxious preoccupied or potentially fearful avoidant, I wouldn’t really know. Regardless in terms of relationships attachment Theory is the most helpful thing you can really learn about!  

 

ps: dismissive avoidance sometimes get a really really bad wrap in comments and other people’s rants because of their traumatic experiences in relationships; so don’t be discouraged. It’s a healing journey, not a broken destination. 

[intotheblack]

If you haven’t met eachother yet, then better to text less often. Meet eachother sooner rather than later.. after that if you like eachother and want to keep going out then 1-2 texts per day is normal.  
Then as it gets more serious maybe you would call eachother rather than text all the time. 
I think the pace is different for everyone but I guess after around 3 month of dating and seeing eachother often you might become ‘official’  this is a good amount of time to get to know someone but I guess some people do earlier.  
It really depends on the situation, my boyfriend and I dated long distance.  So our dates consisted of flying to each others cities for the weekend and staying with eachother about one weekend per month. We took a holiday together after about 3 months of knowing eachother. We would check in with eachother daily and talk on the phone for a few hours once or twice per week. 
We didn’t become official until after about 9 months and by this point knew eachother very well so it felt natural. 
Had we been in the same city we probably would have became official sooner. 

[soos_mite_ah]

10 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

 

Ok I finished watching this video and honestly.... I feel called out. I really thought I finished dealing with the issues I have with my dismissive avoidant tendencies but I guess not lol. 

I thought it was normal to only want to see someone you really like only once or twice a week. I mean, I have a life and things to do. I don't have the time or energy to see anyone for more than once or twice a week.

I thought it was normal to date someone for around 3-4 months before jumping into a commitment. To me that seemed like a normal amount of time to figure out someone's real intentions because people can only pretend for so long. Like for me the first month is me trying to see if there are any red flags. The second is me trying to figure out if the dynamic is healthy and if we mesh together. And the third is to see if I really like this person or not. 

I remember seeing articles about how most people say "I love you" to each other within 4-5 months and consider something to be a serious relationship by then and that straight up didn't register in my mind. I can't see myself saying those words to a person or consider our relationship serious until it's like a year in. 

Also, aren't you supposed to fully meet your needs first so you aren't supposed to rely on the other person? Like the way I always approached dating is that I need to have my friends, my school/career stuff, and my personal issues taken care of and fully have my life together before even considering on putting myself out there for dating. I don't see anything wrong with sharing something personal or emotional with your significant other, but I always think that its important to journal/self soothe, talk to your therapist, and talk to your friends (if things get really serious) before going to your significant other.  To me, going to my friends always seemed like a last resort, not that there is anything wrong with going to your friends but I normally try to deal with things on my own. As for going to your significant other, that has never been the option for me because I have never been in a relationship so in my mind that is even further down the list if I can't talk to my friends about something.

Like in my mind, a romantic relationship is supposed to be fun and drama free. Both of you guys need to have your shit together and keep the situation lighthearted. Don't bring your emotional messiness into a dynamic. If you have mess to sort through either stay away from dating and work with a therapist or break up with the person and work on yourself because it isn't anyone's responsibility but yours to fix your own mess. There isn't anything wrong with helping each other and supporting each other, but that shouldn't be the main thing because or else you're going to find yourself in a codependent, parent-child, or therapist-patient dynamic. None of these dynamics are sexy or fun, much less healthy.  I can see opening up more once the dynamic is established in a long term relationship after a year or so because there is lower chance to devolve into the dynamics I mentioned before. But in a short term relationship, I don't see why you would go into anything super deep and personal. I see that as codependence and oversharing. 

[soos_mite_ah]

8 hours ago, intotheblack said:

If you haven’t met eachother yet, then better to text less often. Meet eachother sooner rather than later.. after that if you like eachother and want to keep going out then 1-2 texts per day is normal.  
Then as it gets more serious maybe you would call eachother rather than text all the time. 
I think the pace is different for everyone but I guess after around 3 month of dating and seeing eachother often you might become ‘official’  this is a good amount of time to get to know someone but I guess some people do earlier.  

This makes sense. But tbh, people becoming official before the 3 months mark doesn't make sense to me. 

[MatteO22]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Ok I finished watching this video and honestly.... I feel called out. I really thought I finished dealing with the issues I have with my dismissive avoidant tendencies but I guess not lol. 

Good reaction :D! But hey good for you for being aware of your attachment style. 
 

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I can see opening up more once the dynamic is established in a long term relationship after a year or so because there is lower chance to devolve into the dynamics I mentioned before. But in a short term relationship, I don't see why you would go into anything super deep and personal. I see that as codependence and oversharing. 

In what you’ve shared there are many preconceived notions about relationships that we can have a discussion about how healthy they are, but I think that would be somewhat distracting.

 

I think the main reorientation has to be that you need to flip your relationship to vulnerability. 
 

It is not the case that ‘once you feel safe enough in a relationship’ you open up, it’s actually the opposite. You need to lead with vulnerability. Sure there’s no need to over share but If you’re DA, oversharing  really won’t be your problem so no need to worry.

 

But all these things about when to commit, spotting red flags, seeing the dynamic etc. - all that is solved by you being vulnerable rather sooner than later - and I mean there’s no reason to hold back vulnerability right from the start, because if you lead with vulnerability you’re making sure that the person you’re with is getting to know the real you, and not an idea you’re presenting. You’re also making sure that you get to witness his reaction to your own vulnerability which will give you a better opportunity to spot red flags than anything else. Don’t mistake this with codependency. Because codependency is a trauma response, there’s nothing vulnerable about it, it’s actually a control strategy, not a vulnerable representation of oneself. It’s an avoidance of your attachment fears by holding on too tightly.

 

I remember hearing a story about a girl who leaned DA - she took her time to commit and open up, and a guy who seemed super into her and super invested, suddenly took off after 5 months - because at the 5 month mark she started embracing vulnerability, and he got scared and went bye bye. So really vulnerability is a way to prevent this from happening, not something that is gonna hurt you inherently.  

 

I also wanna mention that you said you expect relationships to be ‘drama free’ - not to put you on the spot, and I wanna assure you that im not trying to be critical of you so no worries - but ‘no drama’ is often a disguise for saying ‘I fear conflict’ - and that would make sense because conflict is scary, but conflict is also an opportunity to find your own vulnerability, and meet it with your partners vulnerability - when conflict is embraced consciously, connection and vulnerability are found, so there’s no need to fear. Relationships are messy because we’re all human and have messy lives, so if we have authentic relationships, we will have messy relationships. And there’s beauty in that. There’s beauty in choosing to love yourself and someone else inspite of the messiness that comes along. I’m not trying to justify toxic chaotic relationships just to be clear, but I think you get the gist!  

 

I hope this helps! You’ve got this im sure! 

[soos_mite_ah]

16 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

It is not the case that ‘once you feel safe enough in a relationship’ you open up, it’s actually the opposite. You need to lead with vulnerability. Sure there’s no need to over share but If you’re DA, oversharing  really won’t be your problem so no need to worry.

I thought about that before where I was like *am I actually oversharing or do I just think I'm oversharing because I'm so used to feeling like I need to present a certain version of myself?* And that's a difficult question to answer for me. On one hand people think that I'm distant and don't open up but on the other hand if someone asks me "what's wrong?" I have no problem opening the floodgates and express everything that is going on with. I guess I need permission to be open and vulnerable because I don't want people to be weighed down by my issues or me to talk about something when they are dealing with their own thing. When I do get that permission, I feel like that's when I slip into what I label as oversharing. I think a really good example of this is my journal and how long the posts are. I sometimes look at my posts and think "damn, this bitch is going on and on about something people don't care about and is just airing her dirty laundry to everyone on this forum." 

21 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

But all these things about when to commit, spotting red flags, seeing the dynamic etc. - all that is solved by you being vulnerable rather sooner than later - and I mean there’s no reason to hold back vulnerability right from the start, because if you lead with vulnerability you’re making sure that the person you’re with is getting to know the real you, and not an idea you’re presenting. You’re also making sure that you get to witness his reaction to your own vulnerability which will give you a better opportunity to spot red flags than anything else. Don’t mistake this with codependency.

I never thought of vulnerability in this way. I think part of this has to do with the dating advice that is usually geared towards women. Some of that is really fear based like if you try to be vulnerable you will be taken advantage of, you will be manipulated, you will be abused and to  avoid this you have to do everything yourself because your partner isn't going to help you, don't rely on anyone, and you have to be super independent etc. And if you don't do these things, you will attract partners who are toxic and you won't be seen as sexy or desirable because you'll come across as needy. 

I used to look for dating advice before when I REALLY had no idea what I was doing. But in hindsight, I see that I got a lot of advice that either doesn't apply to me or is really unhealthy. I feel like some advice magnified my dismissive tendencies so I just stopped consuming that type of content and tried to be mindful of my personal tendencies instead. 

27 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

I also wanna mention that you said you expect relationships to be ‘drama free’ - not to put you on the spot, and I wanna assure you that im not trying to be critical of you so no worries - but ‘no drama’ is often a disguise for saying ‘I fear conflict’ - and that would make sense because conflict is scary, but conflict is also an opportunity to find your own vulnerability, and meet it with your partners vulnerability - when conflict is embraced consciously, connection and vulnerability are found, so there’s no need to fear. Relationships are messy because we’re all human and have messy lives, so if we have authentic relationships, we will have messy relationships. And there’s beauty in that. There’s beauty in choosing to love yourself and someone else inspite of the messiness that comes along. I’m not trying to justify toxic chaotic relationships just to be clear, but I think you get the gist!

I don't think I really have an issue about fearing conflict regarding communicating what I need and what my  boundaries are. If there is any conflict I fear it would be along the lines of one of us going through something while the other basically starts playing therapist or doesn't get their needs met and then that devolving into codependency.  Like no, figure out your life and come to me when you're whole. I'm not here to fix anyone nor do I expect anyone to fix me. 

31 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

In what you’ve shared there are many preconceived notions about relationships that we can have a discussion about how healthy they are, but I think that would be somewhat distracting.

Honestly I think I could really benefit from having my blind spots and limiting beliefs called out.  

[bejapuskas]

@soos_mite_ah  Try telling him honestly what you think, don't be a dick about it, try this kind of communication, if it works.

[MatteO22]

@soos_mite_ah well, the biggest blind spot I see is regarding the fact of needing your partner to have their shit together and come to you when they’re whole - that’s a lot of pressure!  It’s not that you should be held accountable for other peoples problems, but I think you’re afraid that someone may manipulate you into having that responsibility (which is often times where avoidance comes from, where as a child you felt like you couldn’t rely on your parents, and when you’d share with them or had some sort of an issue, they’d either manipulate and avoid or they seemed so unable to handle it that you found yourself needing to caretake for their needs and emotions, and Since that was so traumatic, you said to yourself ‘never again, I shall always make sure everyone cares for their stuff, and we don’t bleed on one another’).

15 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

there is any conflict I fear it would be along the lines of one of us going through something while the other basically starts playing therapist or doesn't get their needs met and then that devolving into codependency.  Like

I understand this, I’ve had a similar issue. You might wanna look into enmeshment trauma, it speaks about this dynamic, and having to play a ‘parental role’ in your relationships, which when comes from enmeshment is deeply unhealthy and dysfunctional. When you start healing enmeshment it opens up door to vulnerability and your own emotional needs, and allowing yourself to actually receive in a relationship, and not always feeling like you have to be the one to ‘step up’ and provide support, but to actually be the ‘supported one’. It feels nice!  

[soos_mite_ah]

14 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

@soos_mite_ah well, the biggest blind spot I see is regarding the fact of needing your partner to have their shit together and come to you when they’re whole - that’s a lot of pressure!  It’s not that you should be held accountable for other peoples problems, but I think you’re afraid that someone may manipulate you into having that responsibility (which is often times where avoidance comes from, where as a child you felt like you couldn’t rely on your parents, and when you’d share with them or had some sort of an issue, they’d either manipulate and avoid or they seemed so unable to handle it that you found yourself needing to caretake for their needs and emotions, and Since that was so traumatic, you said to yourself ‘never again, I shall always make sure everyone cares for their stuff, and we don’t bleed on one another’).

I can totally see that thank you. I'd say that I have that limiting belief in myself as well where I think that I can't date or form relationships until I'm fully healed from every wound from my childhood. Because of that I'm trying to put myself out there despite not having things together and despite seeing myself as a mess. I'm also a big believer of "if you can't love yourself, you can't love other people in a healthy way" and to me that means that I need to work on myself and pick a partner who has done the same so that we have a healthy dynamic. I'm starting to look at that more and perhaps I don't need someone who has their shit together, rather I need someone who has the awareness to actively work on themselves (as opposed to being with him because I see potential). 

My biggest fear is to make and impulse decision and get into a toxic relationship because I don't want to waste my time and I know just how much of a set back a bad relationship can be. The bold part resonates with me completely even now since I'm stuck in the house with them. Speaking of which, I felt as if I dealt with a lot of issues that I had with my dismissive avoidant attachment style but after living at home and not going anywhere for a year, it's like the issues I had with my attachment style was double downed on. 

24 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

When you start healing enmeshment it opens up door to vulnerability and your own emotional needs, and allowing yourself to actually receive in a relationship, and not always feeling like you have to be the one to ‘step up’ and provide support, but to actually be the ‘supported one’. It feels nice!

I working on that recently and omfg it helped a lot. I've been opening up more with my friends and while it doesn't feel uncomfortable (it feels like relief), I do catch myself wondering if I'm doing too much or if I look like a mess. 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, soos_mite_ah said:

I can totally see that thank you. I'd say that I have that limiting belief in myself as well where I think that I can't date or form relationships until I'm fully healed from every wound from my childhood. Because of that I'm trying to put myself out there despite not having things together and despite seeing myself as a mess. I'm also a big believer of "if you can't love yourself, you can't love other people in a healthy way" and to me that means that I need to work on myself and pick a partner who has done the same so that we have a healthy dynamic. I'm starting to look at that more and perhaps I don't need someone who has their shit together, rather I need someone who has the awareness to actively work on themselves (as opposed to being with him because I see potential). 

My biggest fear is to make and impulse decision and get into a toxic relationship because I don't want to waste my time and I know just how much of a set back a bad relationship can be. The bold part resonates with me completely even now since I'm stuck in the house with them. Speaking of which, I felt as if I dealt with a lot of issues that I had with my dismissive avoidant attachment style but after living at home and not going anywhere for a year, it's like the issues I had with my attachment style was double downed on. 

I working on that recently and omfg it helped a lot. I've been opening up more with my friends and while it doesn't feel uncomfortable (it feels like relief), I do catch myself wondering if I'm doing too much or if I look like a mess. 

If you find a partner who's open-minded but also similarly damaged then you can both use your relationship to grow and heal together.

I think it's a trap to assume you will be fully healed before entering into a relationship. As long as both people have their eyes open in this respect I think relationships can be one of the best healing practices out there

[Zion]

Are you asking if you're "allowed" to be liking this guy even if he's coming off abnormally social? 

Are you asking if you're allowed to have certain social boundaries? 

Or perhaps maybe you're asking how you can make your boundaries known to someone your interested in..

Whats normal is entirely subjective, so it all comes down to you. You make what's normal for you. I'm sure you know yourself in that regard.

Whats normal is entirely dependent on the standards you place on yourself. 

My advice: If something isn't normal for you, try it out. Embrace it. Notice any insecurities or uncomfort that comes up & ask yourself why you feel that way. This will help you to adapt a good consensus of what your boundaries are & better help you understand why they are there, & if they need to change.

[bejapuskas]

9 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I can totally see that thank you. I'd say that I have that limiting belief in myself as well where I think that I can't date or form relationships until I'm fully healed from every wound from my childhood.

Don't blame yourself so much. I mean Leo often talks about this 100% responsibility and not blaming anybody else, but then some things just really are not your fault you know? And some people just need a little guidance before they can take off and fly freely. It is very hard to do inner work with bunch of trauma and other people can help with trauma. Of course inner work helps also but like don't blame yourself for looking for being understood in the wrong places and normalizing toxic behaviors that have hurt you, yeh.

[MatteO22]

5 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I working on that recently and omfg it helped a lot. I've been opening up more with my friends and while it doesn't feel uncomfortable (it feels like relief), I do catch myself wondering if I'm doing too much or if I look like a mess. 

 I mean … you seem to be on the right track - you’re what 22 and going through this level of healing ? - that is rather impressive! So well done, it’s fantastic that you’re aware of enmeshment.

 

Healing takes time and as you heal, limiting beliefs regarding relationships often start falling off without needing to be overly focused on untangling them. From what I can tell you’re self aware and committed to your healing journey enough to surely end up in the right place at the right time  

 

Just one last thing I can help you with to feel more okay and supported - you’re never wasting time. Even if you get into the ‘wrong’ relationship- it’s the universe throwing that relationship your way in order to usher you into your next level of healing. Everything happens for the purpose of deepening your healing journey, and so there’s nothing to fear, not even the wasting of your time - because all the time you spend in certain conditions and places is the exact time you need in order to heal certain layers or trauma within your body. It’s always meant to play out perfectly, to serve your evolution!  

 

All the best, it’s a pleasure to be of service to you ❤️

[soos_mite_ah]

4 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Don't blame yourself so much. I mean Leo often talks about this 100% responsibility and not blaming anybody else, but then some things just really are not your fault you know? And some people just need a little guidance before they can take off and fly freely. It is very hard to do inner work with bunch of trauma and other people can help with trauma. Of course inner work helps also but like don't blame yourself for looking for being understood in the wrong places and normalizing toxic behaviors that have hurt you, yeh.

I'm starting to consider this more and more. I know that sometimes I try to take responsibility but then instead turn around and start blaming myself. Distinguishing between responsibility and fault can be nuanced at times but I'm getting better at it. 

I also watched a video recently and the video mentioned something along the lines of how validation can be incredibly healthy can get help you on your journey towards self love because hearing other people tell you positive things over and over can condition you into thinking positively about yourself the same way that negative things being repeated over and over can also condition you. I think that whenever people see something about wanting validation, people often assume that you're trying to fill a bottomless pit and then as a result you keep seeing advice that's along the lines of "never look for support outside of yourself", "don't depend on others, everything you need is inside you" etc. But wanting validation can come from a healthy balanced place where you need a reminder sometimes but you don't need to be showered with attention constantly. 

9 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

Just one last thing I can help you with to feel more okay and supported - you’re never wasting time. Even if you get into the ‘wrong’ relationship- it’s the universe throwing that relationship your way in order to usher you into your next level of healing. Everything happens for the purpose of deepening your healing journey, and so there’s nothing to fear, not even the wasting of your time - because all the time you spend in certain conditions and places is the exact time you need in order to heal certain layers or trauma within your body. It’s always meant to play out perfectly, to serve your evolution!  

Thank you, I sometimes need that reminder. Sometimes with my childhood, it feels like such a large obstacle to overcome and as a result I catch myself wondering where I would be and how much further I would have gone if this obstacle wasn't there and I could that time I used to deal with this elsewhere in my life. And then I compare myself to this fantasy version of myself which causes me to think about how I can reach that ideal without wasting anymore time. Sometimes I feel like I need to catch up with my potential. 

[bejapuskas]

@soos_mite_ah  Yeh so like receiving validation is not a passive process, right. If you tell an Incel they can get a girl to like them, they will not trust you because of their mindset. Similar with your situation, if you actually become able to receive compliments from people, not feel resistance towards them and feel good about what they say and belive that it is true, that's actually a sign of immense growth on the inside. It is not that you are avoiding the work you know?

[Matt23]

Don't go by "normal".  Go by what you feel is good, healthy, and desired by you.  You may have very different needs and capacities then others, but that doesn't mean you should just do as others do.  

Do you.  Communicate.  Work with him to find a healtht balance that works for both of you... if that's what you want.

[tsuki]

There is no such thing as a "normal relationship".
It is "normal" when it fits both of you and you are not afraid of bringing it up when something needs to change.

Try bringing it up with him and see if he's able to respond to your needs. Chances are that he will and you will carry on.