A Bitch About Dating

[Flowerfaeiry]

6 hours ago, Shin said:

There are other women on the forum though.

?

I really don't want you guys to curb what you say just so you come across as welcoming to other women, but your right, thats just me. 

[MatteO22]

1 minute ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I really don't want you guys to curb what you say just so you come across as welcoming to other women, but your right, thats just me. 

I think it’s not really about that, if guys were to sugarcoat their words it would be manipulative.

 

It’s more about not pushing red pill, pua, misogynistic ideas, values and strategies. Less objectification and more empathy should probably be the idea. 
 

It’s not about curbing what you say, but realising that anything that generalises and objectifies the opposite sex is a projection of your ego and not honest communication. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

3 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

It’s more about not pushing red pill, pua, misogynistic ideas, values and strategies. Less objectification and more empathy should probably be the idea. 
 

It’s not about curbing what you say, but realising that anything that generalises and objectifies the opposite sex is a projection of your ego and not honest communication. 

Tbh, as a woman I've gotten a LOT out of learning about red pill and pua. 

I know a lot of women are turned off by those things and it makes sense, but I think there's much to be learned about men in those ideas. 

In terms of using crude language, it's a turn-off but just says more about the maturity of the individual and its easy to shake off. 

Men would need to have a change of heart of sorts to not curb what they're saying. I want men(and everyone) to express themselves wherever they are and come to conclusions themselves, not just because a woman may be turned off or feel unwelcome. Although that can be a starting point. 

[MatteO22]

23 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Tbh, as a woman I've gotten a LOT out of learning about red pill and pua. 

I mean sure you can learn from it, but it can’t be denied that the building block of most of the culture in both cases is misogyny. 
 

 

24 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I know a lot of women are turned off by those things and it makes sense, but I think there's much to be learned about men in those ideas. 

It’s not about being turned on or off; it’s about being treated in ways that are non-abusive, and ofc if abuse is a ‘turn on’ (which happens in many cases of childhood trauma) then there are bigger problems to confront. 
 

 

26 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Men would need to have a change of heart of sorts to not curb what they're saying. I want men(and everyone) to express themselves wherever they are and come to conclusions themselves

That’s a great altruistic effort but it sells you short. You can still accept and be non/judgemental towards men (which is lovely and I thank you for the empathy you shine) and still realise that narcissism, abuse, manipulation and dismissal are behaviours that need boundaries around them, and the ones committing these actions need to be confronted (by you or anyone else who has the courage). You don’t need to wait for men to change their behaviour in order to set boundaries around toxicity.

[Flowerfaeiry]

1 hour ago, MatteO22 said:

I mean sure you can learn from it, but it can’t be denied that the building block of most of the culture in both cases is misogyny.

In a way. And a lot of it is just an attempt to understand women. We tend to have the emotional upper hand and play our own games. Learning about how some men deal with that brings light to our own behavior lol. 

1 hour ago, MatteO22 said:

It’s not about being turned on or off; it’s about being treated in ways that are non-abusive, and ofc if abuse is a ‘turn on’ (which happens in many cases of childhood trauma) then there are bigger problems to confront. 

Pua and red pill aren't abuse. I mean it can get that way sure but it's not synonymous with it. 

1 hour ago, MatteO22 said:

That’s a great altruistic effort but it sells you short. You can still accept and be non/judgemental towards men (which is lovely and I thank you for the empathy you shine) and still realise that narcissism, abuse, manipulation and dismissal are behaviours that need boundaries around them, and the ones committing these actions need to be confronted (by you or anyone else who has the courage). You don’t need to wait for men to change their behaviour in order to set boundaries around toxicity.

Again, red pill and pua are not synonymous with toxicity(not saying I can't become that). It's a response to women's own emotional manipulation. That we often deny left and right hahahaha. 

I set boundaries around toxicity by being in the fullness of myself as an actualizing human and woman. Sometimes that looks like telling someone to shut up and sometimes that looks like letting them figure it out on their own. 

[MatteO22]

3 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

It's a response to women's own emotional manipulation. That we often deny left and right hahahaha. 

I would agree, but as long as it’s a reaction ‘to’ toxicity it’s based on a toxic premise in and of itself. You don’t heal and deal with manipulation by reacting to it, but by realising it’s futility and stop playing the game altogether. I’ve dealt with manipulative females for a majority of my life. And yet (and I’m quoting a user here who said this and I found it hilarious and genius :D) I wouldn’t say that ‘hot young girls just drive the cock carousel in their twenties and then they settle for a beta male provider once they start expiring.’ - that’s a red pill idea. And how dehumanising is it! 
 

Also… 

7 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Pua and red pill aren't abuse. I mean it can get that way sure but it's not synonymous with it. 

You’re right, but a a certain portion of both of those cultures is abusive, and by being part of it regardless you will end up turning a blind eye and being an enabler and a bystander to some interesting tendencies (such as the ‘cockcarousel’ - btw funniest word ever  ) that I mentioned earlier. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

4 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

You’re right, but a certain portion of both of those cultures is abusive, and by being part of it regardless you will end up turning a blind eye and being an enabler and a bystander to some interesting tendencies (such as the ‘cockcarousel’ 

They're just noticing a phenomenon and putting words to it. Crude words yea but I think for a lot of men it can be helpful to consciously get into pua and red pill to eventually move through and past it. Not to get stuck there though. 

[MatteO22]

1 minute ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

They're just noticing a phenomenon and putting words to it. Crude words yea but I think for a lot of men it can be helpful to consciously get into pua and red pill to eventually move through and past it. Not to get stuck there though. 

well I think the issue is that we’re far from what we were talking about originally - guys on the forum pushing sexist ideas that fall under the umbrella of redpill and pua. It’s not even about rp and pua, but mainly about the tone and arrogance that it is posted with. 

 

Yes there are healthy parts of pua, for example rsd Julien teaches trauma release and originally I learned a lot from him. I don’t think pua should be cancelled, but refined, softened and made ‘greener’ in a spiral dynamics sense. 
 

with redpill I haven’t seen any evidence that it mostly isn’t just toxic mess degrading women and disregarding and limiting men’s ability to be feminine and emotional. 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Lucas-fgm said:

These political-correct people tend to be so authoritative and fricking annoying ... 

Totally agree with you. Annoys the hell out of me.

 

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Lucas-fgm said:

These politically-correct people tend to be so authoritative and fricking annoying ... 

Saying random things and using harsh words on top of it isn't exactly the thing you want to see on a forum.

It's nice to express yourself freely, but it can also be a nice excuse to be a dick.

[Preety_India]

36 minutes ago, Shin said:

Saying random things and using harsh words on top of it isn't exactly the thing you want to see on a forum.

It's nice to express yourself freely, but it can also be a nice excuse to be a dick.

He wasn't being a dick 

Stop acting like everyone has to be overly sensitive and politically correct and cannot say what they want to 

Just demonizing people for simply having opinions.

He didn't say anything so harsh or awful 

There are people who say worse things passive aggressively.

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Preety_India

[Flowerfaeiry]

In short, men suck, women rule. Discussion over. Kidding  I love men and appreciate all of you. xoxo

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

In short, men suck, women rule. Discussion over. Kidding  I love men and appreciate all of you. xoxo

Hehe that made me laugh. That was cute.

 

 

[RendHeaven]

@Flowerfaeiry yeah pretty much

[Harlen Kelly]

3 hours ago, Lucas-fgm said:

These politically-correct people tend to be so authoritative and fricking annoying ... 

It's indeed incredibly childish / pathetic behavior. 

[Preety_India]

35 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

It's indeed incredibly childish / pathetic behavior. 

I agree 

 

[Pilgrim]

 

On 20.6.2021 at 9:52 AM, MatteO22 said:

This is one of the essential steps of integrating the feminine. To actually allow yourself to have the worthiness and receptivity to have and sustain all that you want and deserve. It’s about feeling safe enough to receive, and not need to chase after what is unavailable to you to make sure you keep yourself away from receiving, by never ending chasing. That is why being in a true loving and fulfilling relationship is about allowing it to be received, rather than trying to force or get or improve anything.

THIS! I love your whole answer.. there is so much wisdom in it. 

 

On 21.6.2021 at 5:15 AM, Flowerfaeiry said:

What I'm describing is pure survival, obtaining someone for your own interest rather than experiencing life with someone for the sake of experience. From my man POV it even goes as far as obtaining someone to impress people around me (look at me I'm dating this beautiful women, dad is going to be so proud!). It's not bad in itself but I think it's important to keep in head what you really want. If you get in a relationship to fullfill a need rather than create something unique and special then the other person may be doing the same in which case the relationship becomes transactional and without love.

Another really great answer.. beautiful. 

 

A lot of people gave already great input.. there is not much to add anymore. But from personal experience, as a woman dealing with the same issue for a long time, the change really comes from within. I also feel like relationships these days are often lived on such a superficial level and seem so transactional in nature. "What are you giving me and what can I give you in return?".. it's a business. Not a relationship. But to get away from that transactional nature of relationships we really need to focus on self love and on feeling whole within ourselves. Only then can we see the other person for who they really are, not needing them to be a certain way to fulfill our needs.  

[Logan]

The world is becoming more complex at such a fast rate, which requires more responsibility and hard work to succeed. Men, if not properly guided, are wired to be selfish and destructive. Shocking I know haha.

Men need a sense of purpose an outlet to express themselves in a healthy way. The issue is that it's not easy creating a life and career which one is passionate about, to feel useful and fulfilled with so many options and "competition."

Society is so evolved that there aren't obvious roles in society for men to take up anymore. In agrarian society, boys grew up on a farm and learned to farm at a young age in order to survive. Or, a boy was forced to choose or was chosen to a mentorship to be a cobbler, blacksmith, butcher etc. at an early age. There were far fewer options for employment so it didn't take them 50 years to figure it out like most men do today, if they ever do. It showed tangible results, it was the food they ate. Their survival depended on it. This gave them a sense of purpose. It may not have been what they were passionate about, but at least they felt useful. Men today have a world of options, and are usually too lazy/fearful to figure out which one is right for them.

Advanced modern society is very cushy and many of us are far removed from physical survival challenges like starvation and dehydration, which are strong motivators. Being able to have food delivered to our homes, having an endless supply of TV, and being able to turn on the heat when it's cold disconnect us with this motivation/survival instinct.

Most men today don't have a good role model or somebody to show them how to be a man. It takes a massive amount of effort and pain to admit one's shortcomings and improve themselves. Deep inside they know they are weak, but avoid acknowledging it for the pain it will cause them and the responsibility they'll have to take in order to mature.

 

Basically I'm saying men need to sack up & take responsibility for their lives.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Logan

[Javfly33]

You talk about finding your soulmate yet your whole agenda is pure survival based. Humans are such bs creatures it's even funny ?

[RendHeaven]

@Logan you gonna be that role model one day?