Is spirituality going to destroy entrepreneurship/life purpose?

[martins name]

@preventingdiabetes yes it's the same for financial needs up to a point. But after that point it just feeds an addiction.

Survival and enlightenment are not completely opposed to one another. From one perspective enlightenment is perfect happiness. It's unhealthy to think that enlightenment is the only  meaningful thing in life. What makes enlightenment desirable is the same thing that made those burritos that i just ate desirable. It's both happiness. So instead of seeing burritos as opposed to enlightenment it should be seen as a window to enlightenment. Finding gratitude and pleasure in the simple things in life is a spiritual practice. 

There are however two legitimate reason why eating burritos could be unhealthy:

1. If you have cheese on them. Make simple healthy vegan ones instead, they are still delicious i promise.

2. If we eat burritos to distract us from an emotional wound, such as scarcity trauma. Then we become distracted from facing and healing that wound at it's core. There is still no shame in eating burritos to cope just know that the happiness you seek in burritos can be found in abundance in emotional healing. And emotional healing takes us closer to enlightenment. The road to God is paved with bliss.

Same goes for finances. It's all good to fix your finances up to a point but if wealth becomes a crutch to not face a deeper emotional trauma. Then it's better to face the trauma. Transcending can happen in two ways: transcend and include or transcend and repress. Transcending and including means eating healthy, delicious food, having stable finances and doing chakra meditation/kundalini yoga/kriya yoga to melt you ego in comfort, pleasure, joy, love and bliss. 

Transcending and repressing means selling all your stuff, starve under a tree, dominate all your desires as you sit in meditation 20 hours a day as your body is falling apart. 

If you do option one with rigor I think it will actually get you to a lasting enlightenment faster than option 2. Buddhists have a hard time embodying and getting their enlightenment to stick. I think Leo teaches the latter option, which is too bad. 

Focus on emotional healing. The ego is made out of suffering. 

Lastly what I want to say is this: I became hungry from writing about the burritos I'm gonna go and devour another one have a nice day 

 

[preventingdiabetes]

11 hours ago, martins name said:

If we eat burritos to distract us from an emotional wound, such as scarcity trauma. Then we become distracted from facing and healing that wound at it's core. There is still no shame in eating burritos to cope just know that the happiness you seek in burritos can be found in abundance in emotional healing. And emotional healing takes us closer to enlightenment. The road to God is paved with bliss.

@martins name could this also be the same for enlightenment? 
If you don’t have your financial freedom and you use Enlightenment and meditation as a crutch to distract yourself from meeting your financial needs, would that take you any closer to Enlightenment?

11 hours ago, martins name said:

If you do option one with rigor I think it will actually get you to a lasting enlightenment faster than option 2. Buddhists have a hard time embodying and getting their enlightenment to stick.

could this be because option 1 develops you up in the spiral? Whereas Buddhists usually stay in Stage Blue?

12 hours ago, martins name said:

I think Leo teaches the latter option, which is too bad. 

Really? I always see Leo teaching option one. 
He often says to exhaust our desires and meet our needs before we focus on Enlightenment? 

[martins name]

@preventingdiabetes  

6 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

could this also be the same for enlightenment? 
If you don’t have your financial freedom and you use Enlightenment and meditation as a crutch to distract yourself from meeting your financial needs, would that take you any closer to Enlightenment?

Lets make a distinction between physical needs and emotional needs. I'm taking about emotional needs. 

Ignoring your physical needs is a bit different as ignoring your emotional. If you just meditate and neglect your physical condition then eventually you will probably reach a breaking point where the stress becomes too much and you compulsively start caring for your physical needs.

The best way to reach enlightenment is to sit on the cushion. And meeting physical needs distracts from doing that. One on the cushion I believe in doing a powerful chakra meditation to fill all your emotional needs for comfort/grounding, pleasure/connectivity, joy/power and love/purpose. This is the best way to fill our needs and once they are met we will naturally go up into the self-transcendence need where we just sit and witness the world. In this case there is no need to force meditation, it just happens naturally.

Then when you get of the cushion, you bring the passion and love you developed on the cushion to the world to profoundly enjoy it.

But that passion and love is something you bring to the world and it would be a trap to think that you can get that level of satisfaction from unconsciously engrossing yourself in the world.

6 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

could this be because option 1 develops you up in the spiral? Whereas Buddhists usually stay in Stage Blue?

Spiral dynamics is meant to model cognitive/cultural development. There is also ego development (Cook-Greuter's model) and needs/drive development(Maslow's hierarchy of needs). But it all describes different aspect of chakra development. 

And yes Buddhism isn't concerned with chakra development and that's where we differ.

6 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

Really? I always see Leo teaching option one. 
He often says to exhaust our desires and meet our needs before we focus on Enlightenment? 

That is still not proper integration, but it's better than just flat out ignoring our needs. 

At the core of Leo's repression is his fetishizing of suffering. Suffering is the result of transcending and repressing, which is a failure of proper integration. 

True integration can really only happen through chakra meditation. If this is not seen as an option then I could see why he views comfort, pleasure and joy as mare distractions.

These emotions plus love are what our needs are made up of. Leo's idea of exhausting a need is when you pursue a need and you end up concluding that it's unobtainable so you move on in life. 

What I think Leo means by exhausting a need is that you seek an object of desire and that you think obtaining that object, may it be power or sexual conquest, will give you lasting happiness. Exhausting the need is to realize that you won't get lasting fulfillment from obtaining that object, and when you realize that, the object stop having a pull on you. Then you can move on in life. 

Here is my path: say you feel attracted to pickup. There is two components to the desire for women: pleasure/connection and power/joy. I recognize that I feel a profound lacking of these qualities. I recognize that what has to be fixed are the emotional wounds that make me feel lacking. I also recognize that trying to mask these wounds by sleeping with woman would be futile. Instead, I sit down on the cushion and I open my 2nd chakra to get lasting pleasure/connectedness and my 3rd chakra to get power/joy. This will get me lasting fulfillment. This way pleasure won't be exhausted, it will be fulfilled.

Here is an example for how to open the pleasure chakra:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/60536-technique-transcend-masturbation-by-opening-the-pleasure-chakra/

Leo's way doesn't work. He sought connectedness and pleasure for years as a PUA and that need still has a grip on him which now manifests as his porn addiction. 

[tsuki]

As you have said, large chunk of business is fixing problems that arise from ignorance. In these instances, people will make mistakes that could otherwise be avoidable if they had the knowledge, or took enough responsibility. However, the depth of responsibility is not bounded, but your capacity to execute it, is. There are problems that exist on a societal level that could be avoided given the right leader, but not everyone can be that leader. It is exceptionally unlikely that you will be the president of the United States, if you are a black woman with no education, physical disabilities, and a mental illnesses. Therefore, some problems may only be addressed via their symptoms, not by their root causes. In this sense, entrepreneurship will always be required.

There is, however a synergy between business and spirituality. When you have understood what all of this is about, what could you possibly do, other than what is necessary? Giving expression to your highest calling is what is left after you have awoken. If you love yourself deeply, can you deny yourself the food you need to keep living? Why not take money for your art?

[hyruga]

Look at Sadhguru. He's so spiritual and is so successful as well!

[Zeldor]

@martins name I don’t really understand why people get so attached to meaning: where does meaning come from? If you look up a word in a dictionary you get more words. Even if someone points to a dog and tells you the word “dog”, that process involves drawing a distinction between the dog and it’s surroundings and a whole lot of other meanings your brain/mind presupposes. Meaning comes from meaning which comes from meaning ad infinitum: it is a strange loop, and just like the strange loop of “I”, it is ultimately an illusion.

Here’s another way to look at it: why must the ground of everything be nothing? Because if the ground was something that something would have to be something and not anything else. Nothingness (real nothingness, not just a concept), isn’t anything and thus can be anything. Similarly, it is only through meaningless that there can be infinite meaning. 

So is there meaning? Yes and no and you are God so you decide; personally I find Nihilism liberating and a source of great happiness.

[martins name]

@Zeldor You are right. My bigger point is that the best way to transcend meaning is paradoxically by engaging meaning in an intelligent way. 

With regards to nihilism: I think you should seek to see through meaning but at the same time not be apathic. Which comes back again to the integration of Shiva and Shakti which is the red thread that runs through all I've written in this thread.

[Zeldor]

@martins name I see, I do think there is a lot to gain though from making sure your language matches what you find to be true: so when you say something like it’s bad to think that enlightenment is the only meaningful thing in life, this isn’t truthful to nihilism, but maybe I’m just misreading you as I basically agree with your response.

[martins name]

@Zeldor @Zeldor I mean when enlightenment is made into a concept and an the attainment of that goal is the only meaningful goal in life. Of course this is deluded on manly levels.

I've only had one enlightenment experience a couple of years ago so maybe I'm missing something you are saying. So maybe I'm missing something. Idk.

[Zeldor]

@martins name Well, from a Nihilist perspective enlightenment isn’t the only meaningful thing, because nothing is meaningful. Also, nothing is bad according to moral nihilism. You can also say that everything is leading to enlightenment whether you know it or not, or that every experience is an enlightenment experience, both of which make it so that it is the only meaningful thing from a relative level, because there is nothing really distinct from it. I’m not that enlightened either, although I had a cessation like 3 months ago, so I think my insight is a lot higher right now than it would usually be.

[martins name]

@Zeldor well I think we are in agreement

[Zeldor]

@martins name Lol, cool.

[Rigel]

Accepting things as they are doesnt mean inaction. 

[preventingdiabetes]

On 6/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, martins name said:

Lets make a distinction between physical needs and emotional needs. I'm taking about emotional needs. 

 @martins name

On 6/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, martins name said:

The best way to reach enlightenment is to sit on the cushion. And meeting physical needs distracts from doing that.

From a practical perspective, does meeting physical needs still distract from doing that? To even be able to sit on the cushion, focus, have lots of time to meditate, buy books, invest in yourself, requires you to meet your physical needs. 

In this way, and in this day and age, isn’t meeting your physical needs intertwined with enlightenment work? 

[martins name]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:58 AM, martins name said:

Ignoring your physical needs is a bit different as ignoring your emotional. If you just meditate and neglect your physical condition then eventually you will probably reach a breaking point where the stress becomes too much and you compulsively start caring for your physical needs.

@preventingdiabetes

That's my point. Psysical needs ultimately distract from spiritual work but we can't ignore it.

[preventingdiabetes]

On 24/06/2021 at 8:58 PM, martins name said:

That is still not proper integration, but it's better than just flat out ignoring our needs. 

At the core of Leo's repression is his fetishizing of suffering. Suffering is the result of transcending and repressing, which is a failure of proper integration.

@martins name How does Leo fetishise suffering? I never see him recommending transcending and repressing, or doing it himself. What do you mean?

On 24/06/2021 at 8:58 PM, martins name said:

Here is my path: say you feel attracted to pickup. There is two components to the desire for women: pleasure/connection and power/joy. I recognize that I feel a profound lacking of these qualities. I recognize that what has to be fixed are the emotional wounds that make me feel lacking. I also recognize that trying to mask these wounds by sleeping with woman would be futile. Instead, I sit down on the cushion and I open my 2nd chakra to get lasting pleasure/connectedness and my 3rd chakra to get power/joy. This will get me lasting fulfillment. This way pleasure won't be exhausted, it will be fulfilled.

Here is an example for how to open the pleasure chakra:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/60536-technique-transcend-masturbation-by-opening-the-pleasure-chakra/

Leo's way doesn't work. He sought connectedness and pleasure for years as a PUA and that need still has a grip on him which now manifests as his porn addiction. 

Thanks for this. I want to look into more of this. 

How do I meditate on each and all the chakras? 

For someone who has depression and anxiety, what chakra meditation should they do or start with?

On 25/06/2021 at 2:50 AM, martins name said:

I mean when enlightenment is made into a concept and an the attainment of that goal is the only meaningful goal in life. Of course this is deluded on manly levels.

How is this deluded? How else will we strive for enlightenment without inherently thinking of it as a concept initially?

[Michael569]

On 19/06/2021 at 10:59 AM, Rajneeshpuram said:

Having acomplished a big purpose or not will have zero importance too.

I don't agree with this. If your life purpose is built around making life better for others, contributing, sharing love and helping, you won't look back this way. If I die knowing I've helped 5,000 people live a better life, I would die at peace and satisfied. As long as your life purpose is not build around making more money. One does not need to become enlightened to be able to die at peace. 

I agree with the other point if you die having surrounded yourself with money, possessions, careers and just more "stuff" you will die a hollow man 

[martins name]

@preventingdiabetes

20 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

How does Leo fetishise suffering? I never see him recommending transcending and repressing, or doing it himself. What do you mean?

"Life is journey from selfishness to selflessness. You are dragged kicking and screaming. The more you resist, the more it hurts."

- recent blog post by Leo.

He seems to think that transcendence has to be painful.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be if you are wise enough. 

He is right that pain is a sign of transcendence, but it's a sign of transcending while not integrating the lower stages perfectly.

This is a reoccurring theme in his teachings.

20 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

Thanks for this. I want to look into more of this. 

How do I meditate on each and all the chakras? 

For someone who has depression and anxiety, what chakra meditation should they do or start with?

I should write a comprehensive guide to chakra meditation some day but I need more experience first. There are bits and pieces scattered across my topics and replies, dig through my profile and you'll find them. I recommend you do this.

I unfortunately don't know any one good source for learning energy work. I've cobbled my understanding together from many sources, trail and error, and my own inventions. 

There is one good source that I'd recommend: Tara Springett's Enlightenment through the path of Kundalini, 5-minute miracle and Healing Kundalini Syndrome. 

The techniques that I use is a modified version of Tara's technique to open a specific chakra. I've then integrated the knowledge of how to do that technique into a kriya yoga routine that is more well rounded. More info on that is again found in my replies somewhere.

20 hours ago, preventingdiabetes said:

How is this deluded? How else will we strive for enlightenment without inherently thinking of it as a concept initially?

My point was that it's pathological when it's the only goal we have and we reject worldly pleasures. You are right and I wasn't making a criticism of holding enlightened as a concept. 

[preventingdiabetes]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:59 PM, martins name said:

My point was that it's pathological when it's the only goal we have and we reject worldly pleasures. You are right and I wasn't making a criticism of holding enlightened as a concept. 

@martins name

How is this pathological? Isn’t Enlightenment the most meaningful thing we could be doing and meditating all day the most ideal way to live life? 
What happens if you do have at as your only goal in life? 

[Bodhitree]

@tatsumaru I rather agree, in the end business is meaningless. Spirituality is the only thing that can help you, and if money allows it is best to just focus on meditation, retreats and the best teachers you can find. There is a Tibetan Buddhist teaching, called Atisha’s nine-point meditation on death, which puts it rather clearly…

1     Death is inevitable.  No one is exempt.

2     Our life span is ever-decreasing.  Each breath brings us closer to death.

3     Death will indeed come, whether or not we are prepared.

4     Human life expectancy is uncertain.  Death can come at any time.

5     There are many causes of death – even habits, desires and accidents are precipitants.

6     The human body is fragile and vulnerable.  Our life hangs by a breath.

7     At the time of death, material resources are of no use to us.

8     Our loved ones cannot keep us from death.  There is no delaying it.

9     Our body cannot help us at the time of death. Only spiritual practice can help me prepare.