Coffee

[Gianna]

I don't depend on coffee by any means, but is drinking a cup or two bad a few times a week? I don't even drink it this much normally but I have been just so I can do some work in the Starbucks lobby. 

How bad is coffee for spiritual growth? Is the stimulation counterintuitive toward spiritual practice? 

[UDT]

No.

No.

Yes. But this means drinking coffee before spiritual practice is not advisable, as it narrows the mind

 

[Ora]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:15 PM, UDT said:

 But this means drinking coffee before spiritual practice is not advisable, as it narrows the mind

This is more a personal statement than anything. Coffee doesn't have a negative effect on meditation for a lot of people.

[RobertZ]

Stimulants excite some people's nervous systems, but actually sooth or calm other people's nervous systems. Giving amphetamines to grade 1 kids is a very common practice. 

So, if your spiritual goal involves calming your mind, the use of coffee might have various effects on your thoughts. 

Coffee has a long use in some spiritual traditions. For example, in some Islamic and Christian monastic traditions, people ingested coffee to pray day and night on special days (for over a thousand years now, I think).

Consider too, if you are trying to empty your mind or if you are trying to increase your consciousness of God.

For example, in many religious traditions, mindfulness of awareness is not the only method of spirituality. Many traditions use meditative concentration on certain thoughts to release the mind in ritual logic. Forcing the mind to concentrate on certain images or words in a controlled fashion can induce mystical extacy. Playing a musical instrument is a metaphor for these spiritual practices. By restricting the mind to certain patterns and notes, the mind-body develops skill and practice to express itself "freely" through music. Similarly, by concentrating on ritual thoughts and intentions, the mind can become free.

If you are going to a coffee shop and having some coffee, you might be developing an intentional spiritual practice.

Finally, the health benefits of coffee are some of the most well-researched effects in the world. There is a study between several universities (I think Stanford, Northwestern, and another university) of over 800,000 people over a course of 18 years: the people were ~12% less likely to die of all causes of mortality if they drank 1 cup of coffee per day, and ~16% less likely to die of all causes of mortality if they drank 2-4 cups of coffee per day, than if they drank no coffee (over the course of the 18 years). Decaffeinated coffee had similar health benefits.

We cannot definitely say, "coffee makes you live longer" because it's practically impossible to do a double-blind placebo controlled study on coffee. Even most of the people who don’t drink coffee know what coffee is.

[Andrew John]

15 minutes ago, RobertZ said:

Stimulants excite some people's nervous systems, but actually sooth or calm other people's nervous systems. Giving amphetamines to grade 1 kids is a very common practice. 

So, if your spiritual goal involves calming your mind, the use of coffee might have various effects on your thoughts. 

Coffee has a long use in some spiritual traditions. For example, in some Islamic and Christian monastic traditions, people ingested coffee to pray day and night on special days (for over a thousand years now, I think).

Consider too, if you are trying to empty your mind or if you are trying to increase your consciousness of God.

For example, in many religious traditions, mindfulness of awareness is not the only method of spirituality. Many traditions use meditative concentration on certain thoughts to release the mind in ritual logic. Forcing the mind to concentrate on certain images or words in a controlled fashion can induce mystical extacy. Playing a musical instrument is a metaphor for these spiritual practices. By restricting the mind to certain patterns and notes, the mind-body develops skill and practice to express itself "freely" through music. Similarly, by concentrating on ritual thoughts and intentions, the mind can become free.

If you are going to a coffee shop and having some coffee, you might be developing an intentional spiritual practice.

Finally, the health benefits of coffee are some of the most well-researched effects in the world. There is a study between several universities (I think Stanford, Northwestern, and another university) of over 800,000 people over a course of 18 years: the people were ~12% less likely to die of all causes of mortality if they drank 1 cup of coffee per day, and ~16% less likely to die of all causes of mortality if they drank 2-4 cups of coffee per day, than if they drank no coffee (over the course of the 18 years). Decaffeinated coffee had similar health benefits.

We cannot definitely say, "coffee makes you live longer" because it's practically impossible to do a double-blind placebo controlled study on coffee. Even most of the people who don’t drink coffee know what coffee is.

Wow dude. You know your Stuff. 

[Gregory1]

On 27.6.2021 at 5:56 PM, Andrew John said:

Wow dude. You know your Stuff. 

Same thought 

 

[RobertZ]

@Andrew John @Gregory1 Thanks. "Fruit of the earth and work of human hands," right?

[flowboy]

On 18/06/2021 at 7:36 PM, Gianna said:

I don't depend on coffee by any means, but is drinking a cup or two bad a few times a week? I don't even drink it this much normally but I have been just so I can do some work in the Starbucks lobby. 

How bad is coffee for spiritual growth? Is the stimulation counterintuitive toward spiritual practice? 

Strive to not drink it two days in a row. If you drink it multiple days in a row, it starts to change the brain and make it harder for you to feel energetic and focused without it.

It's also not great for the stomach lining and digestion, and these are important for health.

It's also not great for quality of deep sleep, which can cause accelerated aging.

I wouldn't worry about it if you drink it as a treat 2 or 3 times a week. Don't make it a habit.

I say this as I'm in day 3 (or 4?) of relapsing into drinking it every day. I sure don't feel great? This advice is not always easy to stick to.

On 18/06/2021 at 7:36 PM, Gianna said:

but I have been just so I can do some work in the Starbucks lobby. 

Starbucks uses terrible quality beans, they even taste like fungus to me. Can't you just order a green tea or a chai latte? Much healthier, if all you care about is having something.

On 18/06/2021 at 7:36 PM, Gianna said:

How bad is coffee for spiritual growth?

Only you can say.

I've seen people describe how it helps them with meditation. Other people say it hurts their meditation and they had to stop, on behalf of their spiritual growth.

As with everything, don't blindly go off "facts", but pay attention to how it feels in your body and trust that.

Edited July 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Matthew85]

@Gianna I think it's an individual thing. Everyone's chemistry is different. When I gave up caffeine I felt better in many ways. Test it out and see if you feel better without it. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Matthew85

[Espaim]

Test it. I went 10 months without a drop just to see if it had negative effects and chose to stay on it. If I ever have too many consecutive days of bad sleep I'll have one or two days without it to catch up.

[Gianna]

Since this thread is re-activated. Has anyone felt depressed after stopping caffeine? There's been a couple of times where I stopped caffeine completely and became depressed afterwards. 

[Matthew85]

@Gianna Coffee affects the neurotransmitters in the brain. Initially my mood declined some, but after a few weeks I felt better than when I was drinking it regularly. You need to give your body time to detox from it. Did you try stopping for a few weeks?

[Gianna]

29 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Gianna Did you try stopping for a few weeks?

Yes, at least a few weeks. Probably more. And then as soon as I drink coffee it's like I'm inspired towards life again. But I also feel like back then I had a probelm with sugar. So maybe it was the decline in sugar as well that was making me depressed. I literally had to go to therapy. 

[Matthew85]

@Gianna Hmm. Have you ever tried keeping a food journal? There are so many things we consume that can affect our mood. For instance dairy depresses my mood for some reason. I have found keeping a journal very helpful at identifying what is affecting me.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Matthew85

[Gianna]

@Matthew85 I haven't but I need to! I think that's a great idea. 

[Olivia24]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:10 PM, Matthew85 said:

@Gianna I think it's an individual thing. Everyone's chemistry is different. When I gave up caffeine I felt better in many ways. Test it out and see how if you feel better without it. 

I agree. I feel much better without  caffeine.