Why not Hedonism

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Dodo said:

but productive or giving or yoy know, a help to society, help to God's plan etc.. I know people here don't subscribe to God outside of us, but really it is both inside and out by my definition, so we might be quick to assume we know God by knowing ourself

Don't lose sight of the fact that God wants the Congolese guerrillas to force an 8-year-old boy to torture his mother to death in front of his father, and then become a drug-addicted sex slave who chops off the hands of civilians. trying to understand what God wants is naive. God is, and if we want to transcend the delusion of egoic life, the first thing we have to do is equalize what is with what should be. what God wants is what it is. that your tendency is to become a cocaine addict? that's what god wants. What is becoming a Buddha? the same. why? the answer is supposed to be: love. I do not finish seeing it but I suppose it will be true

[Harlen Kelly]

@Dodo Because hedonistic indulgences are cheap sources of pleasure compared to being in a predominantly peaceful state of mind, feeling connected with nature, etc.

Hedonistic indulgences pale in comparison.

[Dodo]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Don't lose sight of the fact that God wants the Congolese guerrillas to force an 8-year-old boy to torture his mother to death in front of his father, and then become a drug-addicted sex slave who chops off the hands of civilians. trying to understand what God wants is naive. God is, and if we want to transcend the delusion of egoic life, the first thing we have to do is equalize what is with what should be. what God wants is what it is. that your tendency is to become a cocaine addict? that's what god wants. What is becoming a Buddha? the same. why? the answer is supposed to be: love. I do not finish seeing it but I suppose it will be true

Thats th e sort of evil that is on this world yes, but saying that's God's plan is just a mistake in my view. In your worldview there is no free will and it is all God's will correct?

Well this is not at all the God of Christianity,  its the whole thing, the battle of the forces of darkness and the light, on a grand scale. Stop believing nonduality and that all is the will of God. I fully believe in judgement day and those wicked should get what they deserve. My hopes are that those who sin, but are not wicked will get God's mercy. And even the wicked, after rehab in hell.... I just hope! 

But yeah I would not assume everything that happens in our reality is God's will. 

[Dodo]

@Breakingthewall@Breakingthewall you can choose to murder someone, or not murder them. Tell me, how are both options God's will? It's clearly up to you, meaning, that instance of life... You have choice and it might very well be against the will of God, against the will of Life. 

If you think both options are the will of God, your God is air, or randomness, the God of absolute freedom where everything goes... It is not the true God of Love and peace. Freedom under the laws of Love, not absolute freedom

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dodo

[Breakingthewall]

@Dodo Well, in the bible it says that even a hair on your head that falls is the will of God ... Biblical God is omnipotent and omniscient, so he knew that you were going to be a sinner and he was going to send you to hell . in fact he is the one who made you sin to deserve that, to be eternally tortured. but he is merciful and loves you. the biblical god is very scary

Edited June 18, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Rajneeshpuram]

hedonism would lead to dopamine resistance, depression and suicidal.

[Dodo]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Dodo Well, in the bible it says that even a hair on your head that falls is the will of God ... Biblical God is omnipotent and omniscient, so he knew that you were going to be a sinner and he was going to send you to hell . in fact he is the one who made you sin to deserve that, to be eternally tortured. but he is merciful and loves you. the biblical god is very scary

I do not and prefer not to imply that I know in any way how God works. It is and will remain always beyond my understanding, as a human being. 

Now as a human being The bible doesn't telll you you're f'd because it gives the infinite scapegoat, the crucifuction of Christ... Lets read more about that, I definitely will, because it's something big for salvation... In not knowing what will happen..

[Dodo]

@Breakingthewall ofcourse my words are crude, saying infinite scapegoat, making it sound like I know what it is etc, I just express my limited understanding from what I know so far, but I don't have full information for anyone to expect that im saying something true. 

[Frenk]

@Dodo what if islam is the truth? Does that mean that you're going to hell anyway?

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Frenk said:

@Dodo what if islam is the truth? Does that mean that you're going to hell anyway?

Look, ultimately, Islam differs in that they do not think Jesus was more than a prophet, and they do not give credit to the sacrifice of the Righteous Jesus in the hands of sinful people.

Im pretty sure Jesus wanted to live and have an amazing life that he deserved... Like ours that we might not deserve as much! 

[Frenk]

13 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Look, ultimately, Islam differs in that they do not think Jesus was more than a prophet, and they do not give credit to the sacrifice of the Righteous Jesus in the hands of sinful people.

Im pretty sure Jesus wanted to live and have an amazing life that he deserved... Like ours that we might not deserve as much! 

I don't wish to go on a religious debate now so let's steer away from that. My question was rather direct since none of us have any idea what the afterlife is.
So i was asking if islam is the truth are you going to hell?; and likewise if christianity is the truth am i going to hell?

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, Frenk said:

I don't wish to go on a religious debate now so let's steer away from that. My question was rather direct since none of us have any idea what the afterlife is.
So i was asking if islam is the truth are you going to hell?; and likewise if christianity is the truth am i going to hell?

It's rather a big thing for me because I have had Islamic "hallucinations" at one point - not that it said they were islamic anywhere, but I thought they thought I was Christ and wanted to punish me like judgement man... But they were happy I said im the son of Mary and not son of God. But I didnt know at the time that is where they differ to the Bible. But joke on them im not Jesus, I am just some dude haha... But its no joke, stuff was serious... I felt like I was on trial and was going to be stoned to death for being an infidel etc etc.. There were many other miraculous and nightmare scenarios of different flavours and stuff so I just attribute all this to demonic visions. I will not get any ideas about reality from all these things and visions because I know infinite imagination works in mysterious ways It can totally try to mindfuck you...

But we have to stand strong in our truth... And my truth is really, that I do not know, but I know you will always be judged in someone's book! 

God should see how the information coming to us is overwhelming, we can't all follow the Right faith. For me it is the Orthodox faith... But I am not well versed in it, I just find it to be most honest and powerful... 

[Dodo]

@Frenk

As you might notice I am more on the experiential side rather than on the scholarly side, I have experienced what I would call the Holy Spirit, well I was calling it Spirit of True Love, but was really beautiful and magical force of good. 

Quote

Orthodox Christians believe in the Trinity, three distinct, divine persons (hypostases), without overlap or modality among them, who each have one divine essence (ousia Greek οὐσία)—uncreated, immaterial and eternal.[107] These three persons are typically distinguished by their relation to each other. The Father is eternal and not begotten and does not proceed from any, the Son is eternal and begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternal and proceeds from the Father. Orthodox doctrine regarding the Trinity is summarised in the Nicene Creed.[108] 

But of course, I had to get cleaned up to interact/find/experience the Spirit... And had to abstain from sexual desire..

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dodo

[Frenk]

@Dodo ? well i hope in the end its for the best of us all

[vladorion]

8 hours ago, Dodo said:

Why, it is the very reason I have no problem with getting high ( i dont do drinking). Because it is still the present moment, whatever is happening! Why would you assume I am resisting, I am not resisting, there is just weed happening  Where is the problem? 

I'm not saying there's a problem. But you're lying to yourself when you say "there's just weed happening". You do it because you're bored/dissatisfied.

[Willie]

Hedonism is just a concept. Afterlife is just a concept. Nobody can tell you how to live. What feels true to you?

[impulse9]

Why not hedonism? Because the search for pleasure will evolve into searching for more, and more, and more of that external thing you perceive to be pleasurable until the search for pleasure imperceptibly, gradually, subtly but surely, turns into the search for pain, and you will gradually require more and more and more of it because that's the only thing that will satisfy you.

Having your internal state of being depend on something external is your first clue as to why it's not wise to live hedonistically. Since you browse these forums presumably you seek wisdom, and you shall find none in search for pleasure. But since it's your life, you're ultimately the one who will make the decision as the final authority on that matter is yours and yours alone. If you want to live hedonistically, you have every right to do so. You will, however, never find that which you seek in the search for pleasure alone.

[BlackMaze]

You shouldn't be deprived of any life's beauties. The only thing you need is the right balance. Too much hedonism is bad for you, being scared and avoiding hedonism is equally bad for you. One reason to not go all in in hedonism is that if you are not happy with some areas of your life you actually need to do stuff to change things. Of course there is such a thing as planning your future and life to become more of your liking. Nothing wrong about hedonism. It's just that if you are going to go overboard you have to accept the consequences first to not get surprised later. 

On the other hand you can plan and do whatever you want but it can happen that you have an accident one day and it's over. Everything in the end was meaningless, just an amazing dream. There is noone keeping a book about your actions. Noone to give you a prize or punish you after you are dead. You wouldn't have these ideas if you were born in another place or another time. 

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, BlackMaze said:

You shouldn't be deprived of any life's beauties. The only thing you need is the right balance. Too much hedonism is bad for you, being scared and avoiding hedonism is equally bad for you. One reason to not go all in in hedonism is that if you are not happy with some areas of your life you actually need to do stuff to change things. Of course there is such a thing as planning your future and life to become more of your liking. Nothing wrong about hedonism. It's just that if you are going to go overboard you have to accept the consequences first to not get surprised later. 

On the other hand you can plan and do whatever you want but it can happen that you have an accident one day and it's over. Everything in the end was meaningless, just an amazing dream. There is noone keeping a book about your actions. Noone to give you a prize or punish you after you are dead. You wouldn't have these ideas if you were born in another place or another time. 

Well, that's really one way of looking at it, but we have incomplete information. 

We do not know if it was possible to be born another place another time.

We do not know whether our lives have a deeper meaning and that there is noone keeping book! 

I have had experiences on the contrary to suggest there is such a thing as afterlife, angels and demons. 

What you mention is your worldview, but it is based on limited information in not knowing,  I do not blame, because I too have had it. It is a very peaceful thought, but there are forces of darkness working hard to make nightmares out of your dreams, so forces of light assemble!!

[BlackMaze]

@Dodo of course this is just my world view and the truth is i don't really know. Do you really believe that our egos are so important however? Why is our life more important than a chicken's life? We behave as animals most of the time the majority of us. Sure we can reach a point where we go beyond our animal nature but this is very rare. Who decides what is good and what is bad. If we are one thing there is only you deciding that. If there is only the now then heaven and hell exist always in the now and not in the future after your death. Of course i never realized this for myself but maybe there is no death and no getting born. The dream will just continue and take other forms but as you said we have incomplete information. 

I too have seen angels on a salvia trip. Would i see them if i never had a concept of angels? Who knows. Is it really important if angels and demons exist?