Why not Hedonism

[Dodo]

I'm on a place in my journey where I look back at my life i see I have spiralled into all sort of hedonistic practices, because I want to get max value out of life, I would often indulge myself and have fun. 

Lots of wise souls on here, why is hedonism not THE thing, if nonduality would say there is no problem with it, all good. 

Also, living here and now, for the moment, often for me implies hedonism. There are so many people who live for tomorrow, for next year, even some living for the afterlife (without guarantee of one) ! 

How do they live for something that is not now instead of hanging out with this girl and that girl now for example.. Or getting drunk/high now, instead of being sober now for a better future .. 

How  and why would one deprive oneself of life's goodies when there is no guarantee of afterlife and this could be our only opportunity to have it. 

Just contemplating, wondering.. I value your responses! 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dodo

[vladorion]

I think you have an incorrect idea about what living in the now means.

Living in the now doesn't mean not having plans. It simply means being present to whatever is happening.

The desire to get drunk/high is actually a good sign that you're resisting the present moment.

[AdamR95]

36 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I'm on a place in my journey where I look back at my life i see I have spiralled into all sort of hedonistic practices, because I want to get max value out of life, I would often indulge myself and have fun. 

Lots of wise souls on here, why is hedonism not THE thing, if nonduality would say there is no problem with it, all good. 

Also, living here and now, for the moment, often for me implies hedonism. There are so many people who live for tomorrow, for next year, even some living for the afterlife (without guarantee of one) ! 

How do they live for something that is not now instead of hanging out with this girl and that girl for example..

How  and why would one deprive oneself of life's goodies when there is no guarantee of afterlife and this could be our only opportunity to have it. 

Just contemplating, wondering.. I value your responses! 

@Dodo I think its a good thing to spend some time in hedonism but after time it will get less and less satisfying and you will spontaneusly start to seek challenge and discomfort again. The thing is, that you secretly enjoy suffering and struggle and if you will be comfortable for a long period of time you will discover that you miss the struggle or the other option is that survival will eventually catch you. Either way being comfortable will eventualy become uncomfortable.

Do you think you can miss something if you sacrifice for the future? You cant miss anything,  you are always in the presnet moment , it is all there is, and as i said you enjoy to struggle. If you will be comfortable for some time you will discover this. And you discover that you enjoy things more if you struggle for it. Value of things are proportional to an effort you have to expend. Pleasure and suffering gives each other meaning.

And beware, if you get too much attached to a pleasure, it can lead to a huge backlash depending on how long you keep yourself artificially in a pleasure state.

Edited June 18, 2021 by AdamR95

[Mason Riggle]

"Our pleasures, however refined or easily acquired, are by their very nature fleeting. They begin to subside the instant they arise, only to be replaced by fresh desires or feelings of discomfort. You can’t get enough of your favorite meal until, in the next moment, you find you are so stuffed as to nearly require the attention of a surgeon—and yet, by some quirk of physics, you still have room for dessert. The pleasure of dessert lasts a few seconds, and then the lingering taste in your mouth must be banished by a drink of water. The warmth of the sun feels wonderful on your skin, but soon it becomes too much of a good thing. A move to the shade brings immediate relief, but after a minute or two, the breeze is just a little too cold. Do you have a sweater in the car? Let’s take a look. Yes, there it is. You’re warm now, but you notice that your sweater has seen better days. Does it make you look carefree or disheveled? Perhaps it is time to go shopping for something new. And so it goes.

We seem to do little more than lurch between wanting and not wanting. Thus, the question naturally arises: Is there more to life than this? Might it be possible to feel much better (in every sense of better) than one tends to feel? Is it possible to find lasting fulfillment despite the inevitability of change?

Spiritual life begins with a suspicion that the answer to such questions could well be “yes.” And a true spiritual practitioner is someone who has discovered that it is possible to be at ease in the world for no reason, if only for a few moments at a time, and that such ease is synonymous with transcending the apparent boundaries of the self. Those who have never tasted such peace of mind might view these assertions as highly suspect. Nevertheless, it is a fact that a condition of selfless well-being is there to be glimpsed in each moment. Of course, I’m not claiming to have experienced all such states, but I meet many people who appear to have experienced none of them—and these people often profess to have no interest in spiritual life." - Sam Harris

[kinesin]

@Dodo  Go ahead and try hedonism then.  You'll find out eventually why it isn't a good choice.

[WelcometoReality]

@Dodo There's nothing wrong with a hedonistic lifestyle. If you're happy with that then I say YOLO. Go for it! ??

Is there any reason why this question is coming up for you right now?

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, vladorion said:

I think you have an incorrect idea about what living in the now means.

Living in the now doesn't mean not having plans. It simply means being present to whatever is happening.

The desire to get drunk/high is actually a good sign that you're resisting the present moment.

Why, it is the very reason I have no problem with getting high ( i dont do drinking). Because it is still the present moment, whatever is happening! Why would you assume I am resisting, I am not resisting, there is just weed happening  Where is the problem? 

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Kalo said:

The true Hedonist knows his life will be a short life, but he will rather live a short life with "Exctasy" than a long healthy and boring life.

Mix the Hedonist shit with the Spiritual shit and you have it all bro

I swear this month I will get a total breakthrough to the Supreme Reality by shooting quarters daily. 

I call it the the perfect "Exctasy Awakening".

Bro seriously your approach is just highway to hell imo i don't know  We cant all go insane off our tits on drugs, I am not even doing hard stuff, trying to be moral about my abuse 

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, AdamR95 said:

@Dodo I think its a good thing to spend some time in hedonism but after time it will get less and less satisfying and you will spontaneusly start to seek challenge and discomfort again. The thing is, that you secretly enjoy suffering and struggle and if you will be comfortable for a long period of time you will discover that you miss the struggle or the other option is that survival will eventually catch you. Either way being comfortable will eventualy become uncomfortable.

Do you think you can miss something if you sacrifice for the future? You cant miss anything,  you are always in the presnet moment , it is all there is, and as i said you enjoy to struggle. If you will be comfortable for some time you will discover this. And you discover that you enjoy things more if you struggle for it. Value of things are proportional to an effort you have to expend. Pleasure and suffering gives each other meaning.

And beware, if you get too much attached to a pleasure, it can lead to a huge backlash depending on how long you keep yourself artificially in a pleasure state.

You know, you're saying the right stuff, because I feel like I hate what you're saying! Ofcourse I want just pleasure, my mind says. I hate struggling!! I like to say that you dont know me personally if someone says this, because I like to just be a plant and not do much... I like to exist, a lot, I don't like to have to do things to exist. For me heaven would be for my presence alone to be enough and to be at peace. I dont even need highs, I just want to not struggle really! I hate your reply, it might be right 

[Dodo]

54 minutes ago, kinesin said:

@Dodo  Go ahead and try hedonism then.  You'll find out eventually why it isn't a good choice.

well I have tried it, but not sure how this will affect afterlife stuff you know... Present moment and being here now, doesnt really say a lot about whether you will go to hell. You might be comfortable and feel great during your life - i have no problem being hedonistic if there were no possible consequences in afterlife... Which is kind of a big deal for me....... 

27 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Dodo There's nothing wrong with a hedonistic lifestyle. If you're happy with that then I say YOLO. Go for it! ??

Is there any reason why this question is coming up for you right now?

Well YOLO but do I really YOLO, and if I do, maybe the afterlife will be eternal... so maybe need to pick the right things.... I have no problem with going for it during the present moment, obviously, since ive done hedonistic things so many times.... 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dodo

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

. Or getting drunk/high now, instead of being sober now for a better future .. 

Because be sober is much more pleasant. Real hedonism is to live the present in an ascetic way. what is commonly called hedonism, alcohol, drugs, empty sex ... is a sad cheap imitation of real hedonism: meditative life

Edited June 18, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Counterintuitively, by engaging in hedonic pleasures you will be less happy than someone who abstains.

https://www.actualized.org/articles/the-happiness-spectrum

looool that Leo smile gave me a big one  

 

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because be sober is much more pleasant. Real hedonism is to live the present in an ascetic way. what is commonly called hedonism, alcohol, drugs, empty sex ... is a sad cheap imitation of real hedonism: meditative life

hehehehee, but that also is it really the right way to live? The orthodox church would disagree... And maybe there will be consequences for it? Who knows 

[Nahm]

The belief in an afterlife, namely a hell or hell realm, is the belief you are separate of this hell or hell realm, and is precisely how you create and experience the suffering, or, the ‘hell’. 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Dodo said:

 

 

hehehehee, but that also is it really the right way to live? The orthodox church would disagree... And maybe there will be consequences for it? Who knows 

I don't know, but it is by far the most pleasant, happy and beautiful way, where you find magic and beauty every second. That's why all this work, not only to "know the truth", but to have fun. practicality, since anything else is a dead end maze

[mandyjw]

Things do not actually make you happy or not make you happy. When you get something nice that you want, there are no thoughts saying "this isn't how I want it". The lack of sense of discontent when you get what you like is actually the reason for the happiness, so happiness itself is a lack of anything imposed on it. But because the mind can only remember objects and things within a timeline, it attributes happiness to things.

At first when we are innocent kids we think "sugar makes me happy!" And it does. 

Then we get older and we don't want to be fat and we start to have a better sense of cause and effect and realize sugar makes us feel bad. So we say "sugar makes me feel bad."

Neither of these things is actually true. However the wisdom to be able to enjoy sugar in a moderate way is most available when you realize that neither of those statements is true, that there is no effect whatsoever of sugar on happiness. 

If I was advising someone I would not hesitate to say that sugar can cause depression. This is both wisdom, and also convoluted thinking, if it's taken to be a rule. If you look around you'll find plenty of people who develop far worse health problems on strict diets in order to avoid health problems. Happiness ultimately cannot be caused or controlled. Coincidently, neither can health. 

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Things do not actually make you happy or not make you happy. When you get something nice that you want, there are no thoughts saying "this isn't how I want it". The lack of sense of discontent when you get what you like is actually the reason for the happiness, so happiness itself is a lack of anything imposed on it. But because the mind can only remember objects and things within a timeline, it attributes happiness to things.

At first when we are innocent kids we think "sugar makes me happy!" And it does. 

Then we get older and we don't want to be fat and we start to have a better sense of cause and effect and realize sugar makes us feel bad. So we say "sugar makes me feel bad."

Neither of these things is actually true. However the wisdom to be able to enjoy sugar in a moderate way is most available when you realize that neither of those statements is true, that there is no effect whatsoever of sugar on happiness. 

If I was advising someone I would not hesitate to say that sugar can cause depression. This is both wisdom, and also convoluted thinking, if it's taken to be a rule. If you look around you'll find plenty of people who develop far worse health problems on strict diets in order to avoid health problems. Happiness ultimately cannot be caused or controlled. Coincidently, neither can health. 

Ok, that is a great entry. However to me I really have more issue with questions about afterlife, because in thw present moment, as said, one can very easily, through practice of dwelling in the space consciously, find peace and happiness, but that is still in this life and it might be selfish to even do that...

The thing is I don't know. So this train of thought that maybe in this life I am not supposed to be happy, but productive or giving or yoy know, a help to society, help to God's plan etc.. I know people here don't subscribe to God outside of us, but really it is both inside and out by my definition, so we might be quick to assume we know God by knowing ourself, but maybe its partial and we need to turn to the word of God (bible) for clarity..

Bit confused,  because maybe if I sacrifice my happiness in this life for a good effect on society it is better for my afterlife, which might be longer than this life if not eternal... But on another hand, maybe we are supposed to be happy now and not think about afterlife, because it can also be seen as selfish as well, to secure your place in heaven... 

After all is said, i can see the theme of Damned if you do, damned if you don't.... So I am perplexed. Don't know what is right. 

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

Well YOLO but do I really YOLO, and if I do, maybe the afterlife will be eternal... so maybe need to pick the right things.... I have no problem with going for it during the present moment, obviously, since ive done hedonistic things so many times.... 

So you are questioning whether hedonism is the right thing for you and if that isn't the right thing, what is?

 

[Dodo]

5 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

So you are questioning whether hedonism is the right thing for you and if that isn't the right thing, what is?

 

Im trying to guage at why is hedonism not the way. As the guy said, meditative life is even bigger hedonism.. 

I think I have PTSD from visions of hell when I had experience of thinking intuitively that im about to die..

I thought im living fine since I accept the moment, but I wont be able to accept the moment if I am suffering in hell, making my practice like a challenge to the universe "oh you have no problem in the present moment, lets check if thats ultimately true" and turns out if im in hell, its not!!

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dodo

[mandyjw]

15 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I know people here don't subscribe to God outside of us, but really it is both inside and out by my definition, so we might be quick to assume we know God by knowing ourself, but maybe its partial and we need to turn to the word of God (bible) for clarity..

Ok, so what people have done with the Bible is similar to what the hedonist does with sugar, drugs, or sex. It is attributing an outside object to have a power over you. This object, the Bible is given the power both for salvation and damnation. This is what thought does, it spins itself into objects, causation, past and future, fear and desire. 

15 minutes ago, Dodo said:

But on another hand, maybe we are supposed to be happy now and not think about afterlife, because it can also be seen as selfish as well, to secure your place in heaven...

The person who seeks happiness in the afterlife only does so to get happiness now. Think about it. Having this framework and knowing that they are doing what's right to secure something good in the future relieves them of suffering... now. It gives them a sense of security... now. They just aren't conscious of this, so they don't fully enjoy it.

Learning to enjoy the present moment won't make you happy either, it's just already what's happening. 

15 minutes ago, Dodo said:

After all is said, i can see the theme of Damned if you do, damned if you don't.... So I am perplexed. Don't know what is right. 

Great if you do, great if you don't. Once you realize you can't ever lose no matter what, you can't lose. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by mandyjw

[WelcometoReality]

32 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Im trying to guage at why is hedonism not the way. As the guy said, meditative life is even bigger hedonism.. 

I think I have PTSD from visions of hell when I had experience of thinking intuitively that im about to die..

I thought im living fine since I accept the moment, but I wont be able to accept the moment if I am suffering in hell, making my practice like a challenge to the universe "oh you have no problem in the present moment, lets check if thats ultimately true" and turns out if im in hell, its not!!

I don't know if such a place like hell exist. I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

I can imagine that thinking you might go to hell for living the way you want to live feels like hell.

Visions of hell reminds me of jesus seeing satan in the desert and buddha seeing demons under the bodhi tree. Could their visions be related to yours?

Edited June 18, 2021 by WelcometoReality