Wuhan lab conspiracy theory - Scientific propaganda and thuggery

[erik8lrl]

@Epikur Try to read the report and then make a logical conclusion for yourself based on the analysis of their data and method. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Epikur]

18 minutes ago, erik8lrl said:

@Epikur That was the early stage of the pandemic tho. Scientists say what they think to be the most likely, but it doesn't mean they are always right. They later updated all their guidelines as time went on, as we learned more about the virus. At the time, we are not even clear about how the virus spread.  

No that is not always what scientists do. I already wrote earlier on how the scientists admitted that they lied because of political pressure. You might read it.

Trust is an important factor
 

Quote

China is injecting millions into WHO as the US cuts funds. Experts say Beijing is trying to boost its influence over the agency and its 'deeply compromised' chief.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-who-multimillion-dollar-contribution-political-power-move-2020-4

China and trust is an issue

 

Quote

Coronavirus: Why have two reporters in Wuhan disappeared?

They are citizen journalists, wanting to provide the "truth" of what is happening in Wuhan, the epicentre of the coronavirus outbreak in China.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51486106

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Epikur

[erik8lrl]

@Epikur

"The joint international team comprised 17 national Chinese, the 10 international experts from Australia, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Netherlands, Russian Federation, Sudan, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Viet Nam, and United States of America, plus seven other experts and support staff from the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) and WHO. " - From the WHO report on Wuhan page 12

Sure, scientists can lie and become corrupt for survival. But I think it's very unlikely for you to buy the integrity of all these experts from around the world. Not impossible, but very unlikely. 

You can lie about scientific theories/findings, but once the definitive proof is found and peer-reviewed, it will overthrow all the falsehood. You can usually find biases in a research paper report pretty easily by their method or ways of interpreting data. 

Not to say there is no problem with the scientific community. I very much agree with Leo on most of the issues with the field and its limitations. But I think there is no reason for those scientists who have integrity to lie in covid research. There are a lot of people who think this was a lab leak think that we should stop all experiments with viruses. But then how do we deal/prepare for future pandemics if we stopped learning more about viruses? Because there is definitely going to be another pandemic in the next 10 years. Many virologists are looking to potential virus candidates now to study them so we can develop treatments and vaccines before they even become a disease. We will continue to research viruses no matter what conspiracy people come up with. The idea that all virologists are lying to keep their job funded is absurd. Virology research is not going away any time soon. Of course, it is most important to do these experiments safely so there will never be a leak, but even if it does leak by accident once in a long time, we are better to continue to research and prepare for the future than just doing nothing and waiting for the virus to kill us. 

 

 

The citizen "journalists" were live streamers who went inside the hospitals to spread fear online by showing corpses of the deceased. They were disrespectful and caused many troubles to the healthcare workers to gain views on the live stream platform. Both were jailed by the police for a few months for spreading fear and misinformation, and both were released last year after they served their time. I researched this story last year, and the families confirmed that they are out and back to normal lives.    

Edited June 20, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Epikur]

@erik8lrl

They admitted it. 

[erik8lrl]

@Epikur Can you share the source? Can't find any in your previous posts. 

[Epikur]

@erik8lrl

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/694.1

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

Edited June 20, 2021 by Epikur

[Danioover9000]

@Epikur

7 hours ago, Epikur said:

@erik8lrl

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/694.1

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

   With enough money, coercion and magic, outside forces can easily corrupt science.

[Depersonilized]

@Leo Gura It's important to note the methodology behind why people are drawn to conspiracy theories to begin with. They're stimulating, and if you do not have a sense of anchoredness or groundedness, those ideas have a gravitational pull to them. So conspiracy theorists benefit from their theories because it gives them idea-highs. Most people are not looking for truth. They're thinking dopamine into their brain. 

[erik8lrl]

@Epikur It says nothing about scientists lying, but that lab leak is totally a possibility, which is true, and I agree, tho natural cause is the most likely, lab leak is not impossible either. It is what the WHO concluded, too; they think it's likely natural, but not 100%. But then again, there is not enough evidence to prove either case definitively as of now. This is why I said to wait for further research and not to believe in any theory too quickly. 

 

I personally think it is the most likely a natural cause (about 65% likely). Based on few facts. 

1. We know that covid could have been in Spain in March of 2019. They found the virus in their swage water in March 2019. This is way before any known lab (Fort Detrick) shut down or virus outbreak.  

2. We know the first confirmed case for covid found through antibody test is in September in Italy. Meaning the virus was in Europe in August since there is an incubation period of up to 24 days. August is also when Fort Detrick shut down, and an outbreak was reported in Virginia, so a lab leak from Fort Detrick is possible, but the previous point also makes this questionable. If the virus was in Spain in March, it couldn't be caused by a lab leak in August.   

3. Even in the US, the first confirmed case goes back to December(Confirmed by CDC), about a month before the outbreak in Wuhan. The virus likely started in Europe naturally but not as dangerous enough as it is now, so it has been mistaken as pneumonia, then it mutated over time as it spread and became a much dangerous version in China.  

4. A lot of Wuhan lab leak theory suggests that the leak happened in October, but if that were the case, they should see an outbreak in November due to the 24 days incubation period. But that wasn't the case, they first found a patient with covid symptoms at the end of December, and the number only start to go up in January. 

 

Again there is too little evidence right now. It definitely could have been a lab leak from any bio labs we have worldwide (In public and secret). We have so many of them and in almost every part of the world. Any one of them could have leaked before March 2019, and it mutated over time. Or it could just be a natural origin which could be from anywhere around the world since we are all so connected now and it will spread to different continents very fast. It could spread to every continent within the same month without us knowing, thus making finding the origin more difficult. In the end, it doesn't really matter where it came from. Another pandemic is sure to happen again, so we better start preparing.   

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Epikur]

@erik8lrl

You have difficulty understanding the topic. The scientists said 1 year ago the wuhan lab leak theory is not a possibility

Now they say it is a reasonable possibility.

They said they changed their stand NOT because of new evidence BUT because of the changing political climate.

They said they should be more courageous and follow  the examples of some chinese scientists who risked their lifes against chinese government pressure.





 

[Tanz]

if the governments around the world were more transparent and honest about what they don't know, it would have allowed more inquiry from the start but dismissing legitimate scientist saying through their educated opinion that there is a strong likelihood it was man-made undermined the scientific way if thinking. this makes it a huge problem.  

 Their hatred for Trump overshadowed their responsibility to the public which killed many people.  This makes them just as bad as him and even worst depending on how you look at it.  Now, these idiots gave him some fuel to run for office again because he's going to use this mistake to push him back in the spotlight.  

Edited June 21, 2021 by Tanz

[Danioover9000]

@Tanz

7 hours ago, Tanz said:

if the governments around the world were more transparent and honest about what they don't know, it would have allowed more inquiry from the start but dismissing legitimate scientist saying through their educated opinion that there is a strong likelihood it was man-made undermined the scientific way if thinking. this makes it a huge problem.  

 Their hatred for Trump overshadowed their responsibility to the public which killed many people.  This makes them just as bad as him and even worst depending on how you look at it.  Now, these idiots gave him some fuel to run for office again because he's going to use this mistake to push him back in the spotlight.  

   This.

[erik8lrl]

@Epikur I see, yeah they should. But hopefully, they will prove/disprove their theory through evidence. I think most scientists said that it was very unlikely, but no one said it was impossible. But yeah other scientists will be discouraged by peer pressure to not explore/speak out the opposite possibility. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by erik8lrl