Is progress really worth striving for?

[jbeckk]

To me it seems like the idea of progress is not necessarily something positive but just something that happens out of nessecity. Earlier ways of life were less complex but also much more satisfying. Of course, we can't live in such ways today because our world is far too overpopulated. 
For example, life in stage purple was arguably much better (better health, better social contacts, more exercise) and for this one didnt have to work 40 hours a week. The transition to other stages did not lead to more satisfaction, it was only necessary to continue functioning as a society. 
However, today progress is seen as something worth striving for. I think we have to realize that progress has not made us happier and therefore progress as something is only needed in extreme survival situations, because it is something insanely exhausting and many things get lost along the way. Of course, now that we are already in progress we can't just stop with the many crises we are currently facing.
Will it be possible to solve our problems with further progress or has it been shown that we are going in the wrong direction and quality of life is decreasing more and more? Will tier two really save us or is it possible that we have reached the end of progress, the end of civilization?. 

[DocWatts]

The mindset of Progress just for the sake of Progress is something that was constructed with the advent of the Modernist Paradigm.

When in actuality what Progress really is is a Survival Strategy for coping with changing circumstances.

As to SD-Purple... SD-Purple tribal societies served us well for the majority of time that humans have spent on this planet, but those sorts of Societies only work well when population numbers are low, and each group has plenty of geographic space to avoid conflicts with its neighbors.

It also needs a stable environment to really thrive, as these sorts of societies are quite inflexible when it comes to dealing with changing circumstances, due to the importance that tradition plays in these sorts of societies. In a Survival environment where deviating from Norms and violating Taboos is likely to get you and your entire Tribe killed, it's not surprising that as a result these groups find often themselves unable to adapt to sudden and unexpected change.

Not recognizing this limitation is the major shortcoming of ideologies like anarcho-primativism, and with proposed solutions to the problems of Modernity in works like Ishmael (a work I still appreciate to this day, even if some of the conclusions it draws are flawed).

Edited June 16, 2021 by DocWatts

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, jbeckk said:

Will it be possible to solve our problems with further progress

How else are you going to solve our problems?

[jbeckk]

34 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

How else are you going to solve our problems?

Many we cant. Maybe we have gone too far and our civilisation - like all civilisations before - will come to an end and collapse. This actually is not that farfetched.

[jbeckk]

1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

The mindset of Progress just for the sake of Progress is something that was constructed with the advent of the Modernist Paradigm.

When in actuality what Progress really is is a Survival Strategy for coping with changing circumstances.

As to SD-Purple... SD-Purple tribal societies served us well for the majority of time that humans have spent on this planet, but those sorts of Societies only work well when population numbers are low, and each group has plenty of geographic space to avoid conflicts with its neighbors.

It also needs a stable environment to really thrive, as these sorts of societies are quite inflexible when it comes to dealing with changing circumstances, due to the importance that tradition plays in these sorts of societies. In a Survival environment where deviating from Norms and violating Taboos is likely to get you and your entire Tribe killed, it's not surprising that as a result these groups find often themselves unable to adapt to sudden and unexpected change.

Not recognizing this limitation is the major shortcoming of ideologies like anarcho-primativism, and with proposed solutions to the problems of Modernity in works like Ishmael (a work I still appreciate to this day, even if some of the conclusions it draws are flawed).

I thank you for your anwser. We cannot live like stage purple anymore but i think we must integrate a lot of aspect of this way - our natural way of living - into our current world. I feel like stage purple values have not really been integrated yet, what do you think? 

[DocWatts]

11 minutes ago, jbeckk said:

I thank you for your anwser. We cannot live like stage purple anymore but i think we must integrate a lot of aspect of this way - our natural way of living - into our current world. I feel like stage purple values have not really been integrated yet, what do you think? 

I absolutely agree.

Jared Diamond, a sociologist who spent a lot of time living and working with tribes in Papua New Guinea, wrote an entire book on the subject.

The World Until Yesterday: What Can We Learn from Traditional Societies?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15766601-the-world-until-yesterday

 

[Parththakkar12]

2 hours ago, jbeckk said:

Will it be possible to solve our problems with further progress or has it been shown that we are going in the wrong direction and quality of life is decreasing more and more? Will tier two really save us or is it possible that we have reached the end of progress, the end of civilization?. 

The quality of life is not decreasing. It is a mistake to assume that it was any better in the past than it is today!

What is happening though is that we have reached a point in history where survival has never been easier. Now that we are done just caring about survival, now we are thinking about improving our quality of life. Because of that, all the past devilry that we've done in order to survive and get to this point are showing themselves. They are showing up as these long-term, systemic dysfunctions that will eat us in the long-term if we don't resolve them. There aren't that many immediate threats, just long-term threats. Some of them really can seem like impending doom, so I understand where you're coming from.

Because we are becoming conscious of and confronting these problems with our survival-strategies, the prospect of having to give up our existing survival-strategies in order to make progress can seem like doom, precisely because the survival-strategies are doomed. They really are. Switching to new survival-strategies is going to take time, effort, risk. Lives get lost when we switch survival-strategies. But, when we do switch, the world that'll get created will look a lot more utopian than today's world! That's why progress. That's the case to be made for progress!!

[DocWatts]

I would also add that the problems we're facing today (primarily those caused by Modernity) are Collective in nature, and not something that levels lower on the Spiral are equipped to deal with.

And for what it's worth, SD-Green does actually Integrate a lot of the positive aspects of Purple, adapting them to Modernity. Of course this can have problematic aspects as well, such as the idealization of earlier societies, and the re-emergence of 'Magical' beliefs and thinking.

But as the societal center of gravity shifts more towards Green, I would expect to see an increased efforts to adapt and integrate  Wisdom from traditional societies in to a modern context.

Edited June 16, 2021 by DocWatts

[John Paul]

Don't give up. When you are closer to your death you might think think to yourself "If only I had given it my all. Instead I was too afraid, thought negatively instead of positively, and just gave up."