One of the most important thing to understand about women

[Shin]

Of course I'm white knighting, you guys are so clueless, inconsiderate and just plainly obnoxious of the opposite sex that it's hard to read sometimes.

With all that red pill shit going haywire on this forum, I think it's totally appropriate, even necessary.

Cherry on top, I don't give a flying fuck what anybody think of me, so go on arguing, It's just good fun to me ?

[Harlen Kelly]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

Of course I'm white knighting, you guys are so clueless, inconsiderate and just plainly obnoxious of the opposite sex that it's hard to read sometimes.

With all that red pill shit going haywire on this forum, I think it's totally appropriate, even necessary.

Cherry on top, I don't give a flying fuck what anybody think of me, so go on arguing, It's just good fun to me ?

Your thought pattern and perspective is notably unsystemic and simplistic. Which is not surprising.

By the way, people who don't care don't tend to use foul language alleging they don't care.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Windappreciator]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

By the way, people who don't care don't tend to use foul language alleging they don't care.

@integral that's not necessarily true, but many times it is.

[MatteO22]

8 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Preety_India Ganging up on him and post other users is also off-putting

Ikr, kinda awful to gang up on others… hate that shit.

Its not like anyone did that to@Shin thankfully…  

 

wait what ?

 

they did ? 
 

It was you who did that ? 
with that ego-maniac @Harlen Kelly?

 

oh fuck ! Didn’t see that one coming. touché.

 

You seem to be so quick to point out the faults you find in others, have you ever tried taking a good hard look at your own behaviour ? I heard it helps. 10/10 dentists would recommend- to watch what comes out of your mouth. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by MatteO22

[Windappreciator]

@integral

Uff, you guys need to chill.

[Raptorsin7]

@MatteO22 touche

[Etherial Cat]

11 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You basically insinuated the guy was engaging in rapey behavior. And now you walked it back,

This is very problematic imo

He has literally entered the conversation with an attempt to gang up. 

"You said this guy was a rapist, and now you're rolling it back". 

That framing... Lol

 

 

 

[Peter Miklis]

Clearly, somewhere between being a rapist and being a pussy, there's a sweet spot that we as men need to figure out. Which is different for each woman. Here on this forum, there seems to be a lot of trauma going on, so clearly a lot of verbal consent is needed, however I know women in real life who wanted me to take innitiative, and be dominant, without the need to ask anything. But ofc, that's because they were strongly attracted to me in the first place. Reading the body language and situation is critical, if you want to make some bold move.

[Etherial Cat]

11 hours ago, integral said:

I was communicating the mindset of the men that don't act on it. That some women might not realize is even happening. They might think they are not being fantasied about in does situations with their trusted friend that didn't act. I thought this added something. 

The second point is not advice, its not a justification, i do not recommend it. If you have good connection and you know exactly how your partner will react then its fine. I agree its even better to communicate it before hand. Its also a perspective people might not realize exists.

I speak in perspectives. There is no one here. lol

I'm not sure how I can say this again. Do I also need to highlight it ? I (we) got what you've been trying to do there .

It's just that it is seems so basic that my focus has always been on the fact that the outcome (not raping) is what matters. 

By focusing on why it's hard to resist desire, it doesn't get us further. We're better of teaching people how to be mindful while engaging in sex acts.

The point is some men bypass consent (hence these stories). And the low hanging fruit is to inform people on how to respect it.

Mind you, a lot of female get assaulted by men who do not realize how bad their actions have been or brush it off.

On one hand, you've got someone who wanted sex, and on the other you got someone who is potentially traumatized because someone has been inside their body. So this is why I focus on the later.

If you'd be a female you would instantly get how much benefit would come from being mindful about how important it is that someone wants sex as well.

And you would protect this interest and give it a bit of space everytime the basics can be stated. Because there is a lot of work to do on the domain. 

 

[integral]

@Etherial Cat If emerald or anyone in does situations had a better grasp of the male perspective they could of better predicted or handled it, maybe the trauma could of also of been avoided because they would not of been completely blind sighted by it.  

In emeralds response it was clear women have no understanding of the male mind, like the story about Evan (15). 

Both participants need to be educated equality about each others perspectives, not just the men by teaching them consent. I'm not blaming women in these situations or the men, their both ignorant and clueless. 

Please do not confuse this with shaming/blaming women. 

Im not trying to save/change the world with a comment, was simply showing the male perspective in does exact sleep rape situations. And how counterintuitively to women all men go through a phase like this. Being in the same house with your sisters hot friends as they have a sleep over is a VERY sensual intimate experience for a teenage boy. His mind is on FIRE. Then these clueless women (with all respect), allow this boy to sleep in the same room as them. Lack of awareness for both sides of the situation.

No amount of education about consent is going to get that kid to keep it in his pants. But this narrative is offensive to women. They don't want to hear it. Both sides need to take responsibility. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by integral

[Emerald]

On 6/24/2021 at 8:42 AM, integral said:

@Emerald I've never done any of these things do to being raised well. But there was definitely a very strong urge to do them when i found my self in any of does situations. Just trying to add to what was said. Its not a blame game, there is something hard wired about this and its very hard to resist. The men at blame are the ones that didn't. 

Sleeping the same bed with a partner, I've admittedly stimulated them while they slept a few times. It was all in good fun because of consent. But that urge to do this is there regardless of consent. Speaking generally for all men. 

You shouldn't do sexual things to people in their sleep. 

I think that your mentality on this is the exact reason why I've had that happen on multiple occasions. I'm sure they all had a way of justifying it to themselves too. But an unconscious person cannot give consent. 

And the urges felt by men to do things to women in their sleep doesn't justify the doing of them.

This isn't a "let's try to understand both sides of the story. The molester also had valid reasons for molesting." kind of thing. Men can control their urges. They are not feral beasts. And a sleeping woman should not have to worry about men doing these things to her. 

 

 

[Emerald]

19 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

I think you’re dancing on the edge of being an apologist for rapists. Not to sound too dramatic but desire has nothing to do with anything.

 

Were not entitled to have all our desires fulfilled all the time. It’s only when you live in a reality where you feel entitled to your urges being satisfied, what you say will actually have relevance.

Even when you say ‘most men restrain themselves’ - as if they were some champions or something. To not have your desires fulfilled all the time is the most basic thing you learn early in life, where it’s much more important to make sure that your desires don’t violate the free will and freedoms of other people, and the moment they do you’re starting to enter the territory of abuse.

 

The priority to respect the free will of another person comes before everything else, thus the fact that men have these urges is not relevant in the given context. That’s the one thing that distinguishes you from an abuser - do I prioritise respect for others over my fleeting desires. 

100%

[kai0]

well i dont remember anyone asking for my consent before women started raping my visual field and arousing me with all them sexy clothes and makeup its ridiculus how ok its to do passive seduction all the time and then cry about male arousal getting out of control and when someone comes forward to speak about this all them start to crying my freedom my freedom  

not saying rape is ok so dont all come burst at me im saying responsibility is shared so be responsible 

[MatteO22]

@kai0 hey, I reported your comment. I just wanna express myself also in case a mod doesn’t do something.

 

To associate women’s clothes with sexual assault is the age old victim blaming strategy.

 

It is such an outdated, abusive patriarchal point of view that it should never be a relevant point in discussions like this.

[Emerald]

50 minutes ago, integral said:

@Etherial Cat If emerald or anyone in does situations had a better grasp of the male perspective they could of better predicted or handled it, maybe the trauma could of also of been avoided because they would not of been completely blind sighted by it.  

In emeralds response it was clear women have no understanding of the male mind, like the story about Evan (15). 

Both participants need to be educated equality about each others perspectives, not just the men by teaching them consent. I'm not blaming women in these situations or the men, their both ignorant and clueless. 

Please do not confuse this with shaming/blaming women. 

Im not trying to save/change the world with a comment, was simply showing the male perspective in does exact sleep rape situations. And how counterintuitively to women all men go through a phase like this. Being in the same house with your sisters hot friends as they have a sleep over is a VERY sensual intimate experience for a teenage boy. His mind is on FIRE. Then these clueless women (with all respect), allow this boy to sleep in the same room as them. Lack of awareness for both sides of the situation.

No amount of education about consent is going to get that kid to keep it in his pants. But this narrative is offensive to women. They don't want to hear it. Both sides need to take responsibility. 

I will not take responsibility for what happens to me when I'm not consenting... especially when I'm not awake. And I was not ignorant and clueless when these things happened to me... unless you mean clueless in the sense that I was asleep.

I'm well aware of that men have urges toward women. You'd have to be living under a rock to not be aware of that. Women don't really need this education because we get tons of it from a very young age and it's shouted on every street-corner. We see beyond societal veils that most men never get a peek behind. The male perspective and the proclivities that come with that perspective are very well known. 

The female perspective is the perspective that most people are hazy about. 

You should understand well that you assuming the role of the teacher when you'd be much wiser to be the student. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Emerald

[kai0]

you deny male pov and reality nothing new under the sun

[Etherial Cat]

45 minutes ago, integral said:

@Etherial Cat If emerald or anyone in does situations had a better grasp of the male perspective they could of better predicted or handled it, maybe the trauma could of also of been avoided because they would not of been completely blind sighted by it.  

In emeralds response it was clear women have no understanding of the male mind, like the story about Evan (15). 

Both participants need to be educated equality about each others perspectives, not just the men by teaching them consent. I'm not blaming women in these situations or the men, their both ignorant and clueless. 

Please do not confuse this with shaming/blaming women. 

Im not trying to save/change the world with a comment, was simply showing the male perspective in does exact sleep rape situations. And how counterintuitively to women all men go through a phase like this. Being in the same house with your sisters hot friends as they have a sleep over is a VERY sensual intimate experience for a teenage boy. His mind is on FIRE. Then these clueless women (with all respect), allow this boy to sleep in the same room as them. Lack of awareness for both sides of the situation.

No amount of education about consent is going to get that kid to keep it in his pants. But this narrative is offensive to women. They don't want to hear it. Both sides need to take responsibility. 

First of all, what you are telling us doesn't come far off from victime blaming. The essence of what you say is "Girls should know better". Even If you distance yourself from the fact that this what you mean. 

This is exactly what I meant earlier by pointing this behaviour as rape culture. A woman is not responsible for the reaction a man has got. Who cares If he's on fire?

A few years ago when I travaled to Egypt some men got on fire when my ankles got displayed under my maxi dress. Their problem. Not mine. I am free to live my life without being made accountable for someone's pulsion. It's the same If a woman sleeps somewhere (home, at her bfs place...) and a dude thinks he's entitled to something.

Then I also totally disagree on your take about consent. Despite what you've been saying, men who subjectify women and care about consent are far less likely to adopt dangerous behaviour. Also, If cultural norms would make of it a standard within relationship we'd see also a drastic shift. People act according to what their environment perceive as normal and what they are taught within their socialisation.

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@Etherial Cat No amount of education about consent is going to get that kid to keep it in his pants. But this narrative is offensive to women. They don't want to hear it. Both sides need to take responsibility. 

Society criminalize raping.

Not existing, minding your own business and being assaulted.

That kid is supposed to keep his dick in his pant and the standard If it is not observed is potentialy facing justice. Because this is seen as a crime.

You might not think it is, but that's a fact.

We're not talking about equal things.

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, kai0 said:

well i dont remember anyone asking for my consent before women started raping my visual field and arousing me with all them sexy clothes and makeup its ridiculus how ok its to do passive seduction all the time and then cry about male arousal getting out of control and when someone comes forward to speak about this all them start to crying my freedom my freedom  

not saying rape is ok so dont all come burst at me im saying responsibility is shared so be responsible 

You are responsible for not raping people. There is no shared responsibility here. 

This is as clear cut as victim shaming & the justification of criminal activity could be.

You are implying a woman who is raped is not the victim of a crime, but that the crime is somehow warranted, justifiable, understandable or excusable, or that it is the result of a lack of adherence to some shared responsibility. Woman are free to wear clothes & make up however they choose, and do not need to have any regard for your consent or interpretations to do so. You are implying rape is justifiable because you can’t control yourself / your urges, and that women bear some responsibility to cater to your lack of impulse control. 

59 minutes ago, kai0 said:

you deny male pov and reality nothing new under the sun

It isn’t ‘male POV’, it’s your pov, and it isn’t a matter of denial, it’s illegal and morally abominable. 

I’m not assigning points or banning you so that you have an opportunity to express this ignorance (which has already transpired), and an opportunity to hear from others, and to choose to expand & learn, and to realize & employ some empathy & compassion by putting yourself in other’s shoes. 

If you persist in supporting this view however, you’ll be banned. If that is the direction you choose, I do hope you seek out some counseling to come to this realization & understanding. 

@integral

You’re coming from the same place, and in jeopardy of being banned as well. ‘All men go through a phase like this’ is a deeply personal bias which is appalling as it implies rape could somehow be justified. 

[MatteO22]

@Nahm hey that was nice! Thanks!