One of the most important thing to understand about women

[Preety_India]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

@MatteO22 You seem to have a giant shadow against submission.

Consider that submission (coming from a pure heart) IS ultimate feminine empowerment, but I don't believe you recognize this since you work so hard to denounce and disown it.

Not to mention that you made the connection between submissiveness and inferiority, to which I say, "says who?"

Be careful of conflating the full scope of submissiveness with our stupid cultural notions of submissiveness.

At the highest level, all finitude submits and surrenders to Infinity, and such an act of submission is Greater than any petty human domination.

Likewise, all degrees and gradations of human submissiveness mimic this Divine Process (some degrees and gradations more pure than others).

When one realizes this, there is no room left to ascribe "inferiority."

Agree wholeheartedly 

[aaalex]

On 2021-06-19 at 9:48 AM, Lucas-fgm said:

@aaalex  "He did leave subtle signs chich always made me wonder, subconsciously... " Are you really going to  trust in "subtle signs" ?

 

Do you know that most times these guys that harrases girls do it because, in their head, the girl gave them "subtle signs", right?

Just like I said. Just stop overcomplicating stuff and BACK OFF.

Using my words poorly and not giving enough context to the situation. I saw him more as an friend when we were just friends first and I left some subtle signs which he snapped up subconsciously. I were actually the one who approached him in the end, both of us thought we were friendzoned by each other. ? Maybe a bad example.
 

Kind of hard having an open discussion when assuming stuff like this.

Wish you the best.

 

?

Edited June 20, 2021 by aaalex

[bejapuskas]

@Lucas-fgm  I don't want to argue with somebody about something they have not experienced, I am not trying to invalidate anyone, that's your projection.

[Zion]

On 6/15/2021 at 5:30 AM, Shin said:

 

Watched this video, I think it's important to note that when she's talking about making a woman feel safe, she's talking primarily mentally. Physical is less important in this regard. When she's talking about how all women are fundamentally in constant fear, this is mental. While physical stature can be important to some degree, that is only so; due to the mentality the woman holds about what is safe & what isn't. Each woman has her own level of fear, so building trust & creating mental safety will be completely different with every woman. The goal is to understand how you can better understand what she fears to better help her feel safe & truly loved.

 

[Emerald]

On 6/15/2021 at 0:33 PM, mivafofa said:

Thx for this thread.

To me the biggest problem doesn't lie in the streets among strangers, it lies among those you trusted and thought they were friends. 

There are so many men who would just play the cards right until the opportunity rises. The world can be so scary..

@Shin 

Yeah, this is definitely true. You're far more vulnerable to friends and acquaintances than you are to random strangers in the bush. Statistically, women are much more in danger in the home than they are outside the home. 

Men and women's risk of being attacked on the street by a stranger is very similar (perhaps because women go out by themselves as often as men.) But women's risk of being abused, attacked, raped by a romantic parter, friends, etc. is MUCH higher.

I've woken up on three different occasions to men I knew personally trying to do stuff to me in my sleep. Luckily I'm a very light sleeper. 

Once at 14, I woke up to a man (age 42) drunk with his hand just above my breast. He was my dad's friend that I've known since I was a baby and he was staying at our house. 

Once at 17, I was hanging out with my then-boyfriend Jeff, my friend Andrew, and this guy Jay (age 23) who was an acquaintance of mine who I'd known for a few years. I lived with Jeff and his family then. So, I'd fallen asleep on the loveseat and was wearing a long skirt... and my legs were draped over one side of the loveseat. Jeff went to go take Andrew home, not thinking anything of leaving me there with Jay. And I had this terrible dream of wearing this nasty yellow coat that was infested with roaches. And I felt a roach crawling up my leg and it disgusted/startled me to the point of waking. And the sensation of the roach on my leg in the dream was (in real life) the sensation of Jay slowly lifting up my skirt. And when I woke up and looked right at him he nonchalantly said, "Oh, Jeff wanted me to wake you up to tell you that he's taking Andrew home." He had it planned.

Then, when I was 19, I was at a friends house and her boyfriend, she, and I were sleeping together on a large air mattress. And my friend was in the middle. And the man assumed that I was asleep. I was laying on my back. He had his arm draped over my friend, hovering several inches over my breasts. I could see right away what he was trying to do. I lay there for minutes as he slowly lowered his hand closer and closer to my breasts. Then, right as he made the slightest contact, I turned abruptly onto my side. The next day he said to me something like, "Hey, sorry if I accidentally put my hand on you last night. I was asleep."

And then there's just countless times that I've been touched inappropriately or put in uncomfortable situations by friends and acquaintances. High school was really terrible for that.

One time, my friend Russell (who's generally a well-meaning person) scared the bejeezus out of me. One thing to note is that Russell is a giant. He's definitely over 6'5" and he's very husky. So, he's a very big guy. He was way back then too. And at age 13 or so I had gone to his grandma's house to hang out with him. And we were in his room, and I think he took a liking to me. And I was sitting in a computer chair. And he grabbed the computer chair by the arms and drug me over in front of him and looked at me with flirty/sexual intent. And he had the chair between his knees. And I felt so afraid and helpless in that moment because I thought, "What is he going to do to me?". And at 13, I'd already dealt with a lot of sexual harassment at school. And he didn't do anything. I think he was just trying to flirt and had no idea how that would be perceived... especially given that I was like 5 foot even at the time. Maybe not even that.

Basically, there are too many situations where I've felt sexually uncomfortable to even count or remember all of them. And TONS of more minor sexual harassment from friends and acquaintances... like a death by 1000 papercuts. But you do go numb to it... until the rage rises.

Back then, when I used to smoke weed, I'd get all these terrible feelings and get really paranoid about sexual things. And this sense of disgust and rage would come up. One time I even got into this delusional space where I felt like a demon from hell was going to come into my room and rape me. I really went there in my mind to where that felt real, because it was a symbol for how the guys in my life often made me feel.

The weed just brought all that stuff up to the surface that I was essentially numb to otherwise. I was really anti-feminist at the time, and basically coped with these experiences through pretending that women get treated equally to men. I'd get really ticked off if anyone suggested that women were getting the shittier end of the stick in any way. So, I had a lot of repression back then about these topics. 

[RendHeaven]

@Emerald Oh my god Emerald ?

I'm so sorry. And thank you for taking the time to paint the picture so vividly.

[Emerald]

47 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Emerald Oh my god Emerald ?

I'm so sorry. And thank you for taking the time to paint the picture so vividly.

You're welcome. I made it vivid because I don't think many men realize the situations that women and girls experience. It's not on most men's radar. So, men who don't do these things tend to side more often with men who do do these things because it's nicer to believe that these kinds of things are rare occurrences that are carried out by some maniac in the bush.

But it really is a significant chunk of men. And it's often the guys you least expect. My friend in high school (age 15) was hanging out with this guy Evan that I'd known since 1st grade. And he was always super nice. But while my friend was asleep, Evan tried to put his hand inside her panties... my impression is that she was a bit of heavier sleeper than me, unfortunately. She was really in a bad way about it for a long time with feelings of emptiness and a total breech of trust. Evan was one of her really good friends.

So, given how common these kinds of things are, I would guess upwards of 10-20% of men would do things like this. It's just that men who don't do these things, don't often have the chance to have that veil pulled back to get a glimpse of the reality. They don't do it and it doesn't happen to them. So, it's a shock. Much easier to stay in the bubble and deny the reality and victim blame than it is to see beyond the veil to realize that the world is darker than they know.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Emerald

[Peter Miklis]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

But it really is a significant chunk of men. And it's often the guys you least expect. My friend in high school (age 15) was hanging out with this guy Evan that I'd known since 1st grade. And he was always super nice. But while my friend was asleep, Evan tried to put his hand inside her panties... my impression is that she was a bit of heavier sleeper than me, unfortunately. She was really in a bad way about it for a long time with feelings of emptiness and a total breech of trust. Evan was one of her really good friends.

Wow, what a sleazy thing to do. Trying to get something throught friendship. Pretty disguisting. Your stories are pretty eye opening also.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Peter Miklis

[RickyFitts]

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

The weed just brought all that stuff up to the surface that I was essentially numb to otherwise. 

Apologies because I know it's not really the point, but - yeah, it's weird how it can do that. I like to think I'm making good progress releasing unresolved emotions, but the very odd occasion I smoke weed really makes me wonder just how much progress I'm actually making because I seem to turn into an absolute wreck, particularly if I'm in a social setting. It's made me curious about exactly why it has that effect on me, it's like it disables all my mental and emotional defences.

[integral]

@Emerald I've never done any of these things do to being raised well. But there was definitely a very strong urge to do them when i found my self in any of does situations. Just trying to add to what was said. Its not a blame game, there is something hard wired about this and its very hard to resist. The men at blame are the ones that didn't. 

Sleeping the same bed with a partner, I've admittedly stimulated them while they slept a few times. It was all in good fun because of consent. But that urge to do this is there regardless of consent. Speaking generally for all men. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by integral

[Etherial Cat]

It's not okay to stimulate someone while they sleep. By definition, they can't give consent.

It's also very unlikely that this person would take well during the day a direct stimulation without some warming ahead. This is taking advantage of the situation.

Waking up to someone doing something to you is a traumatic cold shower. The person is most likely not horny at all and realize it is being objectified by someone it thought was safe to be around. 

It's selfish and rapey to feel horny and prey on an unconscious body. 

[integral]

@Etherial Cat They woke up aroused and ready for action. I had a good loving playful relationship with them. At no point did they loss any trust. I think your missing the context, its not black and white. 

44 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's selfish and rapey to feel horny and prey on an unconscious body. 

Yep and all men have the urge. Accept both perspectives.

If a good looking man is sleeping in your bed, while in a loving relationship... all pretty and relaxed, its very welcoming. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by integral

[MatteO22]

I heard about a guy who would hump his girlfriend when he was asleep, then they’d have sex, and in the morning he’d remember nothing ?.

Consent gets complicated here sometimes. It’s difficult and unfortunately isn’t total black and white. 

[Etherial Cat]

3 hours ago, integral said:

@Etherial Cat 

Yep and all men have the urge. Accept both perspectives.

The men I am attracted to are generally very much in control of themselves, so even If the idea of having sex with a woman asleep would cross their mind I'm certain they wouldn't start groping them. 

I guess it's okay to some extend to wake up your partner for sex, but waking them up already performing sexual acts is creepy. You wont get me to change my mind. 

--

3 hours ago, integral said:

@Etherial Cat They woke up aroused and ready for action. I had a good loving playful relationship with them. At no point did they loss any trust. I think your missing the context, its not black and white. 

Right. I expected this answer to be fair.

What I can tell is that I have also heard a lot of women who had this type of experience and did not take it well at all.

It's possible that some might think there is nothing wrong with it, and perhaps some can even enjoy it, but the reaction is up to the person. 

3 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

Consent gets complicated here sometimes. It’s difficult and unfortunately isn’t total black and white. 

Better be sure its in the whiter zone.

Performing sex on someone while they sleep qualifies as a legal offense. It's better to make sure your partner is down for it. 

Claiming its fine and normal to do this is problematic. Especially after Emerald shared her story.

Doing this basically diminsh her testimony by writing just down 'well, I touch girls in their sleep and they love it".

3 hours ago, MatteO22 said:

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[MatteO22]

@Etherial Cat oh I didn’t read emeralds response. Sorry my bad! I thought it was a really funny story and meant to point out how the dynamics of consent tend to shift once you’re in an established relationship with a certain dynamic.

 

Of course not when a 42yo is touching you when you’re 14 and asleep! That’s sexual harassment committed against a minor, that’s a prison sentence. 

[MatteO22]

@Etherial Cat also in my example, it was the guy who was sleeping (‘sleep humping’) and the girl engaged in sex with him. So technically the girl in this case would be the offender ? Anywho of course it’s a very rare and extremely unique case. But it just shows how weird and difficult the sexual dynamics can be.

 

I also had a female friend who always complained how she hated that guys in nightclubs just touch and grab you all the time (which I agree with), and yet once when she was drunk and was hugging me goodbye, she grabbed my butt… what a hypocrite! ? 

[integral]

35 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I guess it's okay to some extend to wake up your partner for sex, but waking them up already performing sexual acts is creepy. You wont get me to change my mind. 

I'm saying ALL men have strong urges to do these things, single, in these kinds of situations especially younger men. Most restrain themselves. Relationships are different, your already having sex, the urge is no longer there, its instead done as a fun game. 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by integral

[integral]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's selfish and rapey to feel horny and prey on an unconscious body. 

This might be a kneejerk reaction/culture shock to the male perspective. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by integral

[MatteO22]

19 minutes ago, integral said:

This might be a kneejerk reaction/culture shock to the male perspective. 

I wouldn’t say so, wanting to be left alone when you’re sleeping is a human right.

To finger girls when they’re sleeping is certainly not okay. There’s a wiggle room when you’re in a LtR with an established habits, and a sexual dynamic other than that it’s a big Nope. 

[integral]

10 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

I wouldn’t say so, wanting to be left alone when you’re sleeping is a human right.

Not talking about acting on desires and raping women in there sleep,  Im saying the desire is there, thats it. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by integral