One of the most important thing to understand about women

[soos_mite_ah]

2 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

In the real world, not in a fantasy, not taking the lead and not being assertive is a turn off for women. 

You can take the lead and be assertive and still ask for consent and check in. 

A guy asking me "do you want me to pin you down and have my hands around your throat?" is basically dirty talk. Nothing unassertive about that. 

If you can't ask for consent in the middle of sex, you're probably an awkward creep who can't talk dirty. There is nothing sexy being an awkward creep who can't talk dirty . 

[MatteO22]

3 hours ago, mivafofa said:

A man doesn't need to "feel safe" to be able to "surrender his body" to a woman in order to be turned on.   I mean even if a woman tried to assault you, most of the time you could just push her away in a laugh.  It can't be done the other way around.  What is men's sexually need? A good fuck or a hot woman

As a guy I can’t identify with this. My sexual need isn’t to fuck a good woman. It’s to be wanted, appreciated, taken care of and assured.

 

I also will not have sex if I feel afraid. I am not gonna say unsafe because I used to have a hyper vigilant trauma response to unsafety and in that particular response sex and connection seeking manifested itself as a means to get safety via sexual desire. But I am also aware that some women have this same pattern as well (not all of them just those who come from traumatic childhood that happened in a specific way).

 

I will also raise a point that it’s 100% true that women feel more afraid than men. Yet I think overall we all have the same amount of fear within us, but men are simply a little more out of touch with it and they cope with that fear by being masculine providers, warriors, rescuers and even with aggression and anger - underneath it all you may find piles and piles of fear. 
 

one of the reasons why men ‘just wanna have sex’ is because subconsciously they have given up hope to have their intimacy needs met in any other way due to how they were treated wince a young age. 
 

So again, I think men 100% need to take a step back and tune into the female experience more. Girls would be wise to do the same. And it actually doesn’t matter which gender starts, as one empathises more deeply, the other one discovers the safety to embrace empathy as well. 

[MatteO22]

2 hours ago, mivafofa said:

A woman is naturally inclined to nurture and please her man the moment she fell in love with him.

I actually know of specific examples (where the woman didn’t have a specific predatorial disorder such as sociopathy) where this wasn’t the case. Dismissive avoidant women will likely not feel this way when they feel in love. I dated one, and it was quite confusing. These gendered generalisations are actually quite inaccurate. Wanting to/not wanting to please your partner is a human issue, not a gendered one. 

[Harlen Kelly]

53 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

You can take the lead and be assertive and still ask for consent and check in. 

A guy asking me "do you want me to pin you down and have my hands around your throat?" is basically dirty talk. Nothing unassertive about that. 

If you can't ask for consent in the middle of sex, you're probably an awkward creep who can't talk dirty. There is nothing sexy being an awkward creep who can't talk dirty . 

Fatuous, dull-witted take. 

[MatteO22]

Here’s something interesting to raise the awareness around male issue to emphasise more empathy towards men, and more self-compassion in men.

I heard this form Mark Groves who is a fantastic dating expert, I do not have the original source.

 

There was a study in which young boys were about to be vaccinated with a needle. There were those who cried during the procedure, and then there were those who didn’t. Those who cried were the ones who were originally circumcised at birth, and were experiencing PTSD. Imagine the standard of how little boys are treated, and so little awareness is paid to the actual effects and their pain. 
 

Just now, Harlen Kelly said:

Fatuous, dull-witted take. 

this does not help a productive discussion in the least and aggressive statements like this should be avoided at all costs, so please tone down the aggression or condescension thank you. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@MatteO22 What specifically is aggressive about that statement? Be specific

Edited June 16, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Preety_India]

What's a hard close?

First time hearing. 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

13 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Fatuous, dull-witted take. 

Sounds like what an awkward creep who cant talk dirty would say 

[soos_mite_ah]

@Preety_India A hard close when you keep going even if the woman hesitates or says she isnt sure unless you hear a hard no and she tries to fight you off. Basically unless shes screaming NO FUCK OFF assume she's into you and everything you're doing. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Harlen Kelly]

1 minute ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Sounds like what an awkward creep who cant talk dirty would say 

Very thought-provoking.

[MatteO22]

12 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

@MatteO22 Maybe it's your real nature ( be more feminine) or you are not in touch with your masculinity. I don't know.  If it's the last case, maybe go camp in the forest, practicing sports may help you. I don't know where are you from, but northern Europe is pretty boring, maybe you should put your self into challenges or dangerous situations hahaha. I really like guys like John Wineland and David Deida, maybe their work may help you, who knows.

Yeah… it’s clear, I’m in a dire need of help. Being mindful of my emotional needs moment to moment, fuck man this shit needs to be eliminated, send me to a femininity conversion camp before this shit spreads like the rona ???.

[Vzdoh]

@mivafofa I feel ya... Happened to me exactly in the same way on another thread. I openly shared how I pick guys and what's important for me, only to be attacked for the fact that I don't find beta males attractive and don't want to fuck them. Lots of triggers for beta males on here for sure, but it's not a justification to attack for something u simply have no control over - feminine women are mostly attracted to strong masculine men - alpha men. Cause its expression of polarity. Teal Swan talks about this dynamic a lot. 

[RendHeaven]

@Vzdoh I found your comments to be perfectly reasonable, truthful, and even convincing.

It was pretty hilarious to see the extent to which your words were misconstrued.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Vzdoh 

8 minutes ago, Vzdoh said:

I don't find beta males attractive and don't want to fuck them. Lots of triggers for beta males on here for sure

I have noticed that most women on the forum unfortunately romanticize dating too much and don't admit this reality. You are an exception for sure. 

- Sugarcoating what they are attracted to (which most women do), very predictable.

- Giving advice about a fantastical ideal of dating instead of the actual interaction women and men usually have.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Preety_India]

I find alpha males attractive with a slight bit of beta in them. 

 

[Vzdoh]

55 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Preety_India A hard close when you keep going even if the woman hesitates or says she isnt sure unless you hear a hard no and she tries to fight you off. Basically unless shes screaming NO FUCK OFF assume she's into you and everything you're doing. 

Sounds rapey to me

About continuous check in and consent while in the process. 

One dude I tried to date, I told him I am not ready for sex but don't mind like kissing and making out a bit. 

So we were doing exactly that but I didn't want to go any further cause I knew him like maybe for 2-3 weeks only and did not build the trust yet. 

And he completely disregarded the need for checking for consent in the process. Basically like many guys on here and hard close principle, he kept on going although I tensed and was trying to physically stop him and escape his embrace. 

When he let me go finally, I told him again that I am not ready for sex, apologised for what I thought - leadibg him on - and left. 

He basically gave me silent treatment after that like a 5 year old. Needless to say, he joined my whatsapp blacklist/blocklist after that silent treatment. 

Checking for consent in the process is important. Girls not always want to have sex immediately and with the guy they did not build the trust yet. Pushing for sex in this situation is being rapey. 

[Preety_India]

I don't like an extremely feminine man. 

Masculine man with a slight feminine bend is the right thing for me. 

 

[Vzdoh]

@Harlen Kelly thanks dear! I am 39y old and don't have rosey glasses when it comes to dating. I am also quite authentic as per feedback of my female friends and guys I date. I speak my mind truthfully always. Because to love yourself deeply, u need to be true to yourself first and formost. 

And I am very much in touch with my feelings and emotions - and I actually observed wild swings in my libido - desire for a guy, when he behaved like alpha - action driven, moving forward, assertive, takes good care of me, provides positive containment and security and safety. My libido just went through the roof to be honest and I couldn't wait to jump the guy. 

But all the non-alpha behaviours like splitting bills, calculating investments in the excel, treating me like an equal/dude, not providing containment, not taking care of me, actually demanding my support and care like a little boy, not going out of his way to make me happy - with these types of behaviour I noticed my libido dropped like a rock and I simply stopped desiring that guy. 

This observation is actually fascinating for me. I digged deep to understand why my libido reacts this way and when I came across Teal Swan video on positive containment - I finally understood why. ???

[RendHeaven]

16 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I find alpha males attractive with a slight bit of beta in them. 

No, you don't lol:

On 6/9/2021 at 6:46 AM, Preety_India said:

I don't like judgemental type of guys. 

Ew. Gross. 

"beta" in men is pretty synonymous with insecure judgement

[Vzdoh]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I don't like an extremely feminine man. 

Masculine man with a slight feminine bend is the right thing for me. 

 

Yeah, my type as well. I love alpha guys with very developed emotional intelligence. Super rare breed though! 

Guys i meet especially in Asia are almost autistic when it comes to EQ.