Why does the anti-vax perspective exist?

[BadHippie]

@Consept

I am anti-vax simply because the research I did (studies I read etc.) made me come to the conclusion that the whole Virus-Theory is wrong. 

Sure I also believe the "vaccine" is not good for me, but not because of fear, but because I checked what´s inside and decided that I don´t want that in my body.

The same reason why I only eat plant-based stuff, don´t buy ready-to-use foods, why I filter my water, why I don´t use fluoride in my toothpaste, why I don´t use table-salt... It´s simply because of the research I did, not because I fear fluoride, meat, unfiltered water... 

I still brush my teeth with fluoride sometimes, or if I´m invited somewhere I eat stuff that´s full with glyphosate. I just try my best to stay healthy and it works pretty well -> I haven´t been sick for 3 years, simply because I learned to reduce the environmental-poisons and detoxified my body (I recommend that to everyone) 

So tell me a single reason why I should take said "vaccine", when I will get sick from that very likely, because of the nanoparticles inside? Sure people say it´s because of your immune-reaction, but I simply have a different interpretation on health.

 

Quote

How much is the whole covid narrative based on fear then? 

It´s almost completely based on fear. Otherwise people wouldn´t so willingly give away the rights, people before us had to fight for a long time to get.
It really makes me sad when I see people - especially in my age giving up so easily, because they don´t believe they can change anything -> learned helplessness

How can anyone really want a future where we have to get a "booster-shot" every few months, maybe years to stay healthy? When I can stay healthy without any shot, simply by being aware of the things in our environment that make us and how our own psyche can make us physically sick.

Edited July 29, 2021 by BadHippie

[Consept]

1 hour ago, BadHippie said:

I am anti-vax simply because the research I did (studies I read etc.) made me come to the conclusion that the whole Virus-Theory is wrong. 

Let's say that you're right and your scientific conclusions are more informed and accurate than epidemiologists and virologists that have spent their life studying this topic. Even if you are 100% correct with your alternative view of health, most who are in the same camp as you have not done the same amount of research. You can see that, so if we are looking at that 'normal' anti-vaxx perspective I think fear plays massive role. 

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, BadHippie said:

I am anti-vax simply because the research I did (studies I read etc.) made me come to the conclusion that the whole Virus-Theory is wrong.

What do you mean by this? Do viruses not exist? Do they not cause illness?

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Sonny said:

How much is the whole covid narrative based on fear then?

If we accept that the pandemic is real, there would of course naturally be fear. The question would be whether its been exaggerated or if its even real, in which case you could say people are being deceived and the fear is being enhanced. 

I think what scares people the most is when someone they know or are close to dies or gets ill from it, in which case their fear makes sense in context. Most people I know including myself know of someone that has died from it and definitely many that have got sick from it. Those that have got sick from it, a lot have said its the worse illness they've had. So these are very real things that people are basing their fear on. When it comes to anti-vaxx there isn't the sane concrete happenings to say that the vaccine is dangerous, potentially there could be in the future but even that's doubtful, either way nothing has actually happened to justify the fear, hence why its fear. 

Also reporting of the pandemic still has restrictions on it, you can't just outright lie about it although they may only show certain facts, this is not so much the case with alternative media. I also don't buy that alternative media doesn't have anything to gain from an alternative narrative, many you tubers have increased the subscriptions by millions since the start of the pandemic. 

Ultimately most are choosing a side, it's just are you choosing the side with no restrictions and very few experts

 

[Thunder Kiss]

I have huge anxiety around the whole thing.  I understand both sides, I understand why I should take the vaccine but I’m still afraid because of the anti-vax perspective.  I have even more anxiety though around what I can and can’t do regarding rules and am afraid to travel incase I get trouble for something at the borders, or I get trapped somewhere.  I used to travel a lot and feel excitement to do things, now I just feel apathy and have no lust to do anything because the thought of it is all so stressful.  I have my appointment booked for the vaccine out of pressure and because taking it might make my life a bit easier.  But I’m afraid to take it, and the stress of making a decision (which one to get, what if I get a bad reaction etc) whilst under pressure is driving me crazy   People constantly asking me did I take it yet?! I’m really tired of everything. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thunder Kiss

[nistake]

I completely agree with this guy and he summarizes this whole situation perfectly in my opinion.

At 1:46:35.

[Blackhawk]

Because of stupidity and fear.

[Sonny]

5 hours ago, Consept said:

If we accept that the pandemic is real, there would of course naturally be fear. The question would be whether its been exaggerated or if its even real, in which case you could say people are being deceived and the fear is being enhanced. 

I think what scares people the most is when someone they know or are close to dies or gets ill from it, in which case their fear makes sense in context. Most people I know including myself know of someone that has died from it and definitely many that have got sick from it. Those that have got sick from it, a lot have said its the worse illness they've had. So these are very real things that people are basing their fear on. When it comes to anti-vaxx there isn't the sane concrete happenings to say that the vaccine is dangerous, potentially there could be in the future but even that's doubtful, either way nothing has actually happened to justify the fear, hence why its fear. 

Also reporting of the pandemic still has restrictions on it, you can't just outright lie about it although they may only show certain facts, this is not so much the case with alternative media. I also don't buy that alternative media doesn't have anything to gain from an alternative narrative, many you tubers have increased the subscriptions by millions since the start of the pandemic. 

Ultimately most are choosing a side, it's just are you choosing the side with no restrictions and very few experts

 

There are a lot of experts on the other side, though. Also: the way biggest chunk of people that died of covid have either other very bad health conditions already or they are at the age of dieing anyway. A very small percentage dies from it while they have been normal, healthy individuals below 70 years old. If the flu were to be new now and having the same spreading-rate, we would have the exact same situation as now, I think. It's not the disease itself, it's because there is no group immunity, that's why it's so striking in the world. But the numbers are somewhat the same. And because of this, it's also worse than the flu but nowhere near as bad as the world reacts to it, in my opinion. For many people, flu has always been the last push over the edge to die unfortunately. And now covid is exactly that too, for around the same category of people. Especially during flu waves that happen every year, in Holland the hospitals are full too and everyone is in stress. It happens every year, and we never got any lockdowns because we accept it's a part of life. I'm also not against a vaccine, but do I get a vaccine for the flu? No. So I also don't take it for this. Just focus on the people that are actually in danger, like the flu... that should be the aim in my opinion.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Sonny

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Sonny said:

There are a lot of experts on the other side, though. Also: the way biggest chunk of people that died of covid have either other very bad health conditions already or they are at the age of dieing anyway. A very small percentage dies from it while they have been normal, healthy individuals below 70 years old. If the flu were to be new now and having the same spreading-rate, we would have the exact same situation as now, I think. It's not the disease itself, it's because there is no group immunity, that's why it's so striking in the world. But the numbers are somewhat the same. And because of this, it's also worse than the flu but nowhere near as bad as the world reacts to it, in my opinion. For many people, flu has always been the last push over the edge to die unfortunately. And now covid is exactly that too, for around the same category of people. Especially during flu waves that happen every year, in Holland the hospitals are full too and everyone is in stress. It happens every year, and we never got any lockdowns because we accept it's a part of life. I'm also not against a vaccine, but do I get a vaccine for the flu? No. So I also don't take it for this. Just focus on the people that are actually in danger, like the flu... that should be the aim in my opinion.

There are very few experts saying that the vaccine shouldn't be taken. There maybe some disagreememt about the lockdowns or face masks, but there would be a recognition that 'something' has to be done, its not going to go away by itself. 

I don't think you'd find 5% of experts that are saying the vaccine shouldn't be taken, this doesn't mean that you should just blindly listen to them, but if your argument is based on this or even factors it in, you'd have to throw out the scientific method as the consensus would be against you. 

Also yes you're right younger people are not dying en masse but there are sever issues with long covid symptoms which a lot of people are getting, we also don't know how this will affect people in years to come. With no vaccine and a strategy of just building up herd immunity a lot of old people will die, something around 7%. Not only that the hospitals will be jam packed, meaning other treatments will be pushed back as we've seen earlier in the pandemic. To go through all that risk or take a vaccine that has a scientific consensus, imo a vaccine would be the way out, unless there's another solution I'm missing 

[Sonny]

27 minutes ago, Consept said:

There are very few experts saying that the vaccine shouldn't be taken. There maybe some disagreememt about the lockdowns or face masks, but there would be a recognition that 'something' has to be done, its not going to go away by itself. 

I don't think you'd find 5% of experts that are saying the vaccine shouldn't be taken, this doesn't mean that you should just blindly listen to them, but if your argument is based on this or even factors it in, you'd have to throw out the scientific method as the consensus would be against you. 

Also yes you're right younger people are not dying en masse but there are sever issues with long covid symptoms which a lot of people are getting, we also don't know how this will affect people in years to come. With no vaccine and a strategy of just building up herd immunity a lot of old people will die, something around 7%. Not only that the hospitals will be jam packed, meaning other treatments will be pushed back as we've seen earlier in the pandemic. To go through all that risk or take a vaccine that has a scientific consensus, imo a vaccine would be the way out, unless there's another solution I'm missing 

7% will die? That is so extreme, I really don't believe that. I sense that you totally bought into the fear package that they made. But you know... everybody has their own resources and I respect everyone's different view on it but from what I have read, that it absolutely false. I have read a book of a very good dutch journalist for example, who interviewed many professionals in the field like virologists/flu experts in hospitals etc, and they said that the vaccine is indeed experimental. It could be that nothing will happen, or it could be bad. It's an experiment. Look at the death numbers, it's almost always 70/80+ people with already one or two heavy diseases underneath and obese etc. I am 27 and healthy... it's not in my league. Let them get vaccinated and get help, I'm fine with that. And that long covid story is exaggerated I think. It's also a very low percentage who gets that, and you will recover from it sooner or later. Another way to freighten the population and convince younger population to get vaccinated. Let me guess... once everyone is vaccinated, including the youngsters, there will be a reveal/study that long covid is not as bad as expected and stuff like that. I don't buy into it anymore... and I could be wrong and I will bear the consequences. But from the numbers that I see, I think I'm right. Governments/experts have a lot of interests. They are not objective. They cannot be. 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Sonny said:

7% will die? That is so extreme, I really don't believe that. I sense that you totally bought into the fear package that they made. But you know... everybody has their own resources and I respect everyone's different view on it but from what I have read, that it absolutely false. I have read a book of a very good dutch journalist for example, who interviewed many professionals in the field like virologists/flu experts in hospitals etc, and they said that the vaccine is indeed experimental. It could be that nothing will happen, or it could be bad. It's an experiment. Look at the death numbers, it's almost always 70/80+ people with already one or two heavy diseases underneath and obese etc. I am 27 and healthy... it's not in my league. Let them get vaccinated and get help, I'm fine with that. And that long covid story is exaggerated I think. It's also a very low percentage who gets that, and you will recover from it sooner or later. Another way to freighten the population and convince younger population to get vaccinated. Let me guess... once everyone is vaccinated, including the youngsters, there will be a reveal/study that long covid is not as bad as expected and stuff like that. I don't buy into it anymore... and I could be wrong and I will bear the consequences. But from the numbers that I see, I think I'm right. Governments/experts have a lot of interests. They are not objective. They cannot be. 

Sorry if i wasnt clear, the death rate as in people who have died after contracting covid over 80 is 7.8%, this declines a couple percent per age group, but either way this is a lot of people when you consider its a pandemic. Another stat (i will leave a link below) - "reported that 0.04% of 10-19 year olds would probably require hospital care—as would 1.0% of people in their 20s, 3.4% of people aged 30-39, 4.3% aged 40-49, 8.2% aged 50-59, 11.8% in their 60s, 16.6% in their 70s, and 18.4% of those over 80".

Now even if we bypass the deaths and say we're happy for them to die because they were old or have illnesses, we would still have to deal with this very significant amount of hospital admissions, which will basically cripple already stretched health systems and cause chaos. Meaning that other patients will not be able to be seen. 

Heres your link on these stats ive mentioned - https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1327

Keep in mind im just pointing out what would happen if there was no vaccine or no other solution. 

Regarding long covid, lets take the example of the UK since im there. There have been around 5.8 million covid cases and 1.1 million have self reported long covid symptoms with 674,000 claiming it has adversely affected their day to day activities. So we're talking about 20% having it and 16% saying its affected them on a daily basis. So i wouldnt say its been exaggerated unless all those people are lying or are creating psycho somatic conditions because of fear. - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/1april2021

So just looking objectively at statistics the question would be is taking the vaccine going to make the population better or worse? The vaccine has so far been proven to be around 95% effective against the virus with very low side effects (0.003%) so to take the stand that no vaccine would be the better option doesnt really make sense to me considering the amount of negative consequences. Even if you think it will not be effective to just assume it would be dangerous would either mean the government is actively trying to kill you or make you ill through a vaccine, which if that was the case why not let covid just do its thing? Or you think the development of the vaccine was sub par and will lead to problems in the future, but if that was the case then we might as well give up on the whole medical industry as most drugs are not able to have 20 year test periods. 

 

[BadHippie]

IMO "long Covid" could simply be Post-ICS (Post Intensiv Care Syndrom) or CFS (Chronique Fatique Syndrom). 

To the death numbers of COVID, keep in mind that the PCR-procedure was never developed to diagnose someone with a sickness. You can prove everything in everything with a PCR-Test... (Kary Mulis said that, who developed the PCR-Procedure) 

Someone counts as Covid-Death if he had a positive test in the last 28 days (Germany). That doesn't mean he died from Covid, just that they were to lazy to do the actual work. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by BadHippie