Why is there anything at all?

[RMQualtrough]

@Adamq8 The thing is that sort of makes an infinite regress. Like when little kids ask "why" over and over, when someone says "why is there this consciousness?" there is no satisfactory explanation still for why there is that something.

Perhaps consciousness is simply a property of nothing. It would not matter at that level if consciousness were fundamental or not because consciousness still couldn't ever not exist forever via more than one mechanism. The nature of infinity for one.

Infinity might also explain the need for something. Though does infinity exist in non-existence? It gets confusing then.

[RMQualtrough]

@tatsumaru Yes they are different things. If some magical genie literally told you the answers to all reality and it was proved beyond all doubt to you, you're not suddenly enlightened just because you know the truth.

If I was suffering I would see a doctor and get medication tbh lmao. Cheating my brain chemistry has never bothered me morally.

But I AM interested in reality. Many people are just interested in knowing more about life and reality.

[RMQualtrough]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It would seem that existence creates itself from non-existence, although saying "it creates" is not entirely correct since it implies a before and after and there aren't. it would be "is being created". How is this possible? perhaps because existence is really nothing, but that nothing creates images, dreams in which it manifests itself, not randomly, but very deliberate.

So this nothing that dreams a dream so perfect, beautiful, complex ... what is it?

I don't know if this is possible to go deeper and understand that

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. And yeah, no time so there isn't a before and after just now. So it would all happen instantly in a single moment we call now.

Existence created from non-existence.

But you can't create anything from something that doesn't exist yet. That is why God could not make a universe except out of itself... So existence would be made OF non-existence.

[Tim R]

Careful, many questions of this kind are so problematic not because the answer is complicated or difficult to understand, but because the question is asked in the wrong way. 

The solution to a meaningless riddle is not to be found in or as any answer, but in the dissolution of the question(-ing) itself. 

This is the real meaning behind "not-knowing". It isn't that you simply "don't know the answer", but that you have seen through the meaninglessness of the question. Which is a far more profound form of understanding things. Because then you're mind is truly at peace. 

The question "why is there something rather than nothing?" is one such a riddle. It is asked in the wrong way, because it assumes, that "nothing" and "something" are different from each other and fundamentally irreconcilable. 

But when you see that they are indeed identical, the question itself looses meaning - which makes it disappear.

This is the method of "Koans" in Zen. The teacher will ask a meaningless question, and the only way of finding the solution to this riddle lies in the dis-solution of the entire riddle altogether. 

Anybody here could "give you the answer" to this question about something vs nothing. But it won't satisfy you, until you see through it yourself. 

[tatsumaru]

26 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Careful, many questions of this kind are so problematic not because the answer is complicated or difficult to understand, but because the question is asked in the wrong way. 

The solution to a meaningless riddle is not to be found in or as any answer, but in the dissolution of the question(-ing) itself. 

This is the real meaning behind "not-knowing". It isn't that you simply "don't know the answer", but that you have seen through the meaninglessness of the question. Which is a far more profound form of understanding things. Because then you're mind is truly at peace. 

The question "why is there something rather than nothing?" is one such a riddle. It is asked in the wrong way, because it assumes, that "nothing" and "something" are different from each other and fundamentally irreconcilable. 

But when you see that they are indeed identical, the question itself looses meaning - which makes it disappear.

This is the method of "Koans" in Zen. The teacher will ask a meaningless question, and the only way of finding the solution to this riddle lies in the dis-solution of the entire riddle altogether. 

Anybody here could "give you the answer" to this question about something vs nothing. But it won't satisfy you, until you see through it yourself. 

Apparently he doesn't care if the question is right or wrong and is more interested in the actual question than in the answer.

[RMQualtrough]

@Tim R Actually the solution that nothingness IS somethingness is satisfying to me. It's exactly the type of fucked up thing that can explain the illogical.

We say matter appears in consciousness. In the same way, I am satisfied if somethingness appears in nothingness.

I am satisfied if nothingness is the ground. If literally all things including consciousness spring forth from nothingness.

I like that a lot. It seems right. The unlimited things from a hat... It seems right to me...

[Adamq8]

I think this text sums it up nicely,  read from bottom to top

[tatsumaru]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

@tatsumaru Yes they are different things. If some magical genie literally told you the answers to all reality and it was proved beyond all doubt to you, you're not suddenly enlightened just because you know the truth.

If I was suffering I would see a doctor and get medication tbh lmao. Cheating my brain chemistry has never bothered me morally.

But I AM interested in reality. Many people are just interested in knowing more about life and reality.

You can't prove reality beyond a doubt. There's no certainty in scientific evidence. Name one thing that's been proven beyond a doubt through scientific evidence? Even scientists don't claim that. As far as scientists are concerned there's no such thing as absolute truth, there's just 'here's what happened, if it happens twice then maybe it will happen three times'. That's all science is. Reality can only be experienced beyond a shadow a doubt, it can't be proven. I can tell you all kinds of stories but if you don't experience it you can keep asking, "but how do I know that's true?". Your confusion is rooted in your belief that there's some external authority that can be equivalent to your own realization. Even if the Buddha told you what truth is like you still wouldn't be sure if he's lying or just psychotic. As far as you're concerned everything beyond your own experience is just people making noises and drawing pictures on things. Logic can't prove anything either, because logic starts with an assumption as well. Isn't it obvious to you that even as you are talking about the things you are talking right now there's 0 certainty? You might feel like you've arrived at the truth at certain times but that's simply because your imagination hasn't produced a way for you to question your conclusions. Then someone comes along and asks you how do you know you aren't in a simulation and all that this is being pumped in your brain and you only feel like you are thinking and you will be like 'I don't know'. Back to square 0. Why? Because you can make all kinds of BS when you are not interested in reality. It will never get you what you are looking for. The best you can hope for is to believe someone who is honest with you. Whether they are right or not will remain beyond your knowledge. That's the old humanity - gods, heavens, religions, fairy tales, they believed it all. Now you are looking to create a new religion for yourself. Do you really think that by mixing your beliefs with someone else's this will somehow produce truth? Or maybe if 100 people agree with you this will be truth? Or by remembering something someone told you then this is knowledge? This sort of noise shuffling is of 0 value to anyone on earth. Whether you want to go all the way to enlightenment or simply to partially increase your understanding of the world the principles are still the same. Enlightenment is just realizing how everything works, partial realization is just realizing how certain things work (e.g. duality). The principles are all the same though. It's just a matter of how far are you willing to go. Everything else is nonsense.

Edited June 11, 2021 by tatsumaru