Why is there anything at all?

[RMQualtrough]

Why is there something rather than nothing in your opinion?

Leo said in a video that it's because there's nothing to prevent it. But there being nothing to prevent existence doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. You can put up a sign saying "walking on the grass allowed!" but it doesn't mean someone will walk on the grass.

There's not much you can do with 0. But that is within the confines of the laws of reality. What is 0 outside of any laws of reality? Maybe there are infinite laws and one of those dictates that the 0 must become a something. But it doesn't answer why there is any law at all.

I can also consider that given infinite possibilities, one possibility is a paradox. Like the time travel paradox where you go back in time and shoot a relative before you were conceived.

I think somethingness may arise due to a paradox but what paradox exists in nothing? Perhaps that something called space and time is created, and something in that spacetime somehow creates the somethingness. Creating an infinite loop.

Or perhaps we assume we are on the existent side. Perhaps existence exists inside non-existence again by some paradox?

I am curious what you guys think.

[cetus]

26 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I think somethingness may arise due to a paradox but what paradox exists in nothing?

 Love

[VeganAwake]

33 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

But that is within the confines of the laws of reality. What is 0 outside of any laws of reality? Maybe there are infinite laws and one of those dictates that the 0 must become a something. But it doesn't answer why there is any law at all.

Those laws don't exist and neither does the dream story created within those parameters.

It's complete Anarchy & Paradise for nobody.

[Frosty97]

@RMQualtrough There isn't. There is only nothing. Everything is nothing and nothing is everything. The perfect strange loop

[RMQualtrough]

@VeganAwake Yeah that's an issue, if there are no laws or possibilities in literal nothingness. What then can exist?

You can't make anything outside of 0 because there's nothing with which to turn it into a 1.

So it does need to be inside of 0. But how and why would it not just REMAIN as 0?

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Frosty97 said:

@RMQualtrough There isn't. There is only nothing. Everything is nothing and nothing is everything. The perfect strange loop

This is one thing I am considering I think... People always ask "why is there something rather than nothing". Maybe there's NOT something.

Maybe "something" is all maintained within nothing by some weird paradox. But which paradox?

Maybe "something" is just default. Logically nothing seems easier and more logical but maybe it's not. Outside of time there is only forever but from within time, forever seems impossible without beginning and end. Could the same be true of something like cause and effect? Is something similar to effect the default?

[Someone here]

Form is empty. Emptiness is form. 

Something and nothing are identical. 

[RMQualtrough]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Form is empty. Emptiness is form. 

Something and nothing are identical. 

From another thread, I was pleased with this:

"Perhaps everything IS nothing. Maybe there ISN'T a something outside of nothing. Maybe nothing IS everythingness. Maybe that's what nothingness literally is, infinity. Not even infinite consciousness (although that would be part of it), just infinite potentiality or something. Though I fear infinite potentiality might be wrong too, maybe that too is just part of it.

Perhaps it is LITERALLY nothing and this is some utterly insane paradoxical thing... The paradox being that Nothingness IS Somethingness. Such insane paradoxical answers satisfy me the most because of the oddity of the fact of existence itself even being a thing to begin with. I don't think it could exist via normal logic."

...

What do you think? Something being literal nothing (literally nothing at all) seems illogical, but if nothing exists neither does logic so that might not matter.

Edited June 11, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[RMQualtrough]

Absolute literal nothing is a concept. If hypothetically there was literal nothing, there would exist a possible "concept" of literal nothing. A concept is thought. The something from nothing is thought? Just throwing things out.

[caspex]

Nothing IS something. Nothing is happening rn. Don't go about it by logic or making yourself BELIEVE that nothingness is somewhere hiding within this something. You have to literally see in your direct experience that there is absolutely nothing happening. I personally got it by meditating on the question "How is oneness even?" after realizing that "There is only oneness" in my direct experience. We often make ourselves believe all these statements and think we got it. But then we get it logically and we think we truly got it. But nah, you have to literally feel it in your bones.

[Someone here]

@RMQualtrough it's definitely a paradox. Something and nothing are identical. You can't get it through the mind. Takes a massive awakening. 

[RMQualtrough]

How about a time paradox? Like how you can't travel back in time and kill an ancestor...

When there is literally nothing there are infinite things that could have been but aren't. Perhaps one of those possible things loops back somehow and creates the nothing, and therefore the nothing can only then exist with that something that creates it. So literally like the time travel paradox... Existence existing by virtue of the fact that non-existence is created by an existence.

Edited June 11, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[RMQualtrough]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@RMQualtrough it's definitely a paradox. Something and nothing are identical. You can't get it through the mind. Takes a massive awakening. 

Yeah so we're all living, experiencing, and playing around in very literal non-existence? LOL that is hilarious and wild if true. The idea that existence itself literally does not exist. The entire thing sustained by nothing more than a paradox.

Lmao.

[tatsumaru]

18 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Another consideration... What if there is some loop paradox? Like the time traveller going back in time and killing an ancestor?

When nothing exists, there are infinite things which COULD have existed but don't. Perhaps in one of those things, the end of that loops back and creates the nothing that we are originally talking about.

Because there is no such thing as time outside of existence, that loopback event would happen immediately.

Logic doesn't matter because logic doesn't exist in literal nothing.

Paradoxes aren't really a thing. Paradoxes only occur in the parallel world of conceptual fantasies and are mostly caused by mathematical delusions. A paradox is an indication of ignorance and misalignment between actual reality and the concepts that are used to interpret and reason about it. For example you could say that randomness is a paradox, because if something is random it would completely destroy order simply by interfacing with order and randomizing it and therefore there wouldn't be anything non-random which isn't the case. On the other hand if you could actually interface with randomness and make it less random then it would mean it isn't random. Such delusions are only possible in the conceptual parallel world, but if you really analyze language closer you will realize that randomness is just an artifact of the mathematical paradigm which believes that there is separation between so called things, but since there isn't mathematics break at certain points and they have to come with compensatory mechanisms such as infinity and randomness in order to correct for the infinitely (lol) incorrect view of separation.

16 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Yeah so we're all living, experiencing, and playing around in very literal non-existence? LOL that is hilarious and wild if true. The idea that existence itself literally does not exist. The entire thing sustained by nothing more than a paradox.

Before you make these funny games in your mind you should actually inspect the concept you are using to make them. What does it mean for something to exist? When you get to the bottom of this you will see that existence isn't a good concept for how the dream works and there is no paradox. The only reason you think there are separate things that exist is because it was useful a long time ago to be able to call certain experiences as 'stone', 'water', 'food' etc simply for convenience sake so you can say 'give me two stones please', however 'stones' is just an idea that you have in your mind, the reality of your experience is a denser form of a dreamy substance compared to less denser surrounding of the same dreamy substance. You can destroy that so called stone and then you will give yourself permission to not call it stone anymore but gravel and you would think that you changed the stone into gravel but you only switched ideas. The true substance of the dreamy world is not visible to the 6 senses. Matter isn't made out of matter. The way life works is much closer to music than it is to math.

 

“Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur”- Taranatha

Edited June 11, 2021 by tatsumaru

[RMQualtrough]

@tatsumaru I don't think this question or premise has anything to do with duality or nonduality whatsoever.

If no conventional logic or answer is plausible for the question, then perhaps it is something crazy. Lol.

Can existence be non-existent? That's impossible? But in nothingness there's no such thing as impossibility or logic... So it's just absolutely topsy turvy. All things all at once because there is neither logic nor impossibility.

Consider all the wild things that could be when there are zero logical laws. Cause causes effect? That's logical. How about effect causing cause? How about nothing being something. Existence being non-existent. A possibility branch of a thing which loops back and creates the nothing.

Non-existence REQUIRING existence.

Maybe a person says paradoxes don't exist. Non-existence doesn't exist either so they're on the same plane and can gladly interact.

Edited June 11, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[tatsumaru]

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

@tatsumaru I don't think this question or premise has anything to do with duality or nonduality whatsoever.

If no conventional logic or answer is plausible for the question, then perhaps it is something crazy. Lol.

Can existence be non-existent? That's impossible? But in nothingness there's no such thing as impossibility or logic... So it's just absolutely topsy turvy. All things all at once because there is neither logic nor impossibility.

Not sure why you are bringing non-duality into this. You are contemplating the difference between existence and non-existence and how they are related to each other, that's as dual as duality gets. What I am saying is that you are arriving at a paradox only because you are using incorrect concepts to communicate about reality. These concepts are part of older understanding about what this so called reality is and are simply not correct. They are as incorrect saying that 'suffering is the goal of enlightenment'.

 

4 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

If no conventional logic or answer is plausible for the question, then perhaps it is something crazy. Lol.

It's not reality that's crazy, it's the conventions which are the insanity. If you want to explain reality through broken and obsolete paradigms all you will be doing will be contemplating paradoxes which have nothing to do with reality. There's a field called 'pure mathematics' for people who enjoy that type of stuff.

[RMQualtrough]

@tatsumaru Enlightenment isn't important to me or a goal at all, but I was interested by:

"You are contemplating the difference between existence and non-existence and how they are related to each other, that's as dual as duality gets."

Is total and literal absolute nothingness dual if existence doesn't exist to be part of it?

[Adamq8]

Reality is extremely ordered and intelligent imo.

And I truly feel that conciousness is that which sets things in order.

There is no non existence.

Existence is what it is and can not become anything else.

By looking through the scientific paradigm they claim randomness and so forth because they do not understand certain things.

Conciousness matters so to speak.

But when seen through the illusion of this dream it is shown that all forms and colours and so forth is totally void of anything.

It is more like we are the void projection shapes and colours and movement but in reality there is none.

Conciousness and mind is what produces reality, how can a physical universe exist somewhere? Where are we? What location? 

The only possibility imo is that it is held inside a mind/conciousness but we get so decivied by our senses so we believe in a physical material reality existing in a universe somewhere. 

Conciousness is the creator, universal mind holds everything.

The only possibility is to dream, it is more like conciousness dreams up storys and then actualizes it.

Infinite dream machine. 

Leo really nails it when he says reality is gods imagination. 

Infinite imagination.

I dont think creation is random at all or that it is infinite possibilitys that create reality. 

The only logical conclusion imo is that conciousness is nothing and then goes on to shape forms like an infinite clay which is unlimited in what it can shape.

Dreams imo is the best way to seal the deal with this in mind.

You create a world and characters out of seemingly nothing. 

Sounds a lot like how reality got created.

It dreams a view point and becomes a seperate self from the rest, or so it fools itself into believing.

Just observe reality without labels and it becomes obvious that there is no other way for reality to exist other then in conciousness. 

The fundamental ground is aware and intelligent as a mofo.

We can postulate that conciousness came from somewhere but yet again that is a back story for how creation came about.

Conciousness is GOD. And it is nothing but imagines everything else. Or another way to put it is that it folds over itself to look at it self in a mirror.

[tatsumaru]

24 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

@tatsumaru Enlightenment isn't important to me or a goal at all, but I was interested by:

"You are contemplating the difference between existence and non-existence and how they are related to each other, that's as dual as duality gets."

Is total and literal absolute nothingness dual if existence doesn't exist to be part of it?

That's like asking - How can day and night both be true, it must be a paradox! There's no paradox you are simply trying to fit something that's not static into your static concepts . Use dynamic concepts and all those paradoxes vanish into thin air. (e.g. wave instead of a particle, process instead of a thing). Some of the words that you are currently using are simply not pointing towards anything, they are just made up noises about stuff in your imagination.

24 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Enlightenment isn't important to me or a goal at all, but I was interested by:

So basically you are asking for some explanation of how reality works but you aren't interested in verifying it for yourself. Or in other words you just want some belief system to believe in? Do you think that enlightenment and how stuff works are different things?

Edited June 11, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Breakingthewall]

It would seem that existence creates itself from non-existence, although saying "it creates" is not entirely correct since it implies a before and after and there aren't, because if there were nonexistence, and at some point the existence arose, it is that there was always existence since the nonexistence is not.

it would be "is being created". How is this possible? perhaps because existence is really nothing, but that nothing creates images, dreams in which it manifests itself, not randomly, but very deliberate.

So this nothing that dreams a dream so perfect, beautiful, complex ... what is it?

I don't know if this is possible to go deeper and understand that

Edited June 11, 2021 by Breakingthewall