You can't actually ever experience nonduality

[Dodo]

31 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Dodo there's nothing wrong with duality.  It's the only way 'nothing/everything' (the one thing there is) seems like 'something' (many things) at all.   Just recognize that there's not difference between the two.  'Seeming like many things' IS 'the one thing there is'.  Existence (seeming like somethingness, rather than nothingness/everything) depends on it. 

To me all you're saying sounds like one entity attempting to say that they know/understand the ultimate reality. Just another ego trip in my view tho! 

It seems like we are attempting to boil down reality into something really simple like this. And using words like nothing and everything which are pointers to things that cannot be experienced and hence everyone has a different projection when they are mentioned... All those projections not it.. But still we use the words.. To seem like we know, our idea of nothingness and everythingness cant be wrong.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Dodo

[Mason Riggle]

@Dodo it's quite a trip!

[Mason Riggle]

11 minutes ago, Dodo said:

To me all you're saying sounds like one entity attempting to say that they know/understand the ultimate reality. Just another ego trip in my view tho! 

@Dodo this is because there seems to be separation between me and you.  

From my perspective, the only one I have, everything being experienced in this moment is what I am, including the experience of a 'you' and a 'forum' and 'conversation' etc.. all those things are 'what I am'.  

"I have no other self than the totality of things of which I am aware." - Alan Watts. 

[gettoefl]

great points thank you @Mason Riggle

you are on the money

[Dodo]

46 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Dodo this is because there seems to be separation between me and you.  

From my perspective, the only one I have, everything being experienced in this moment is what I am, including the experience of a 'you' and a 'forum' and 'conversation' etc.. all those things are 'what I am'.  

"I have no other self than the totality of things of which I am aware." - Alan Watts. 

Ok but can you accept possibility that thats only one way its experienced over there and another way over here or elsewhere..

What im getting at is the healthy realisation of ultimate not knowing, rather than claiming an ultimate knowing.  

I agree you might have reached an ultimate knowing of Yourself (doubt cause infinitely deep),  but thats all you have authority over..  Basically i can be you in your worldview, but allow for other beings to claim their own independent existence also, since you cannot know another's experience you cant really talk about it with confidence! 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Dodo

[Mason Riggle]

@Dodo The only thing I know with 100% certainty is that something seems to be happening right now. I may totally confused about what that something is.   The One thing that I am absolutely sure exists for me (the totality of my experience, whatever that may actually be) seems like lots of things. It's seems like there's an 'independent you with inner thoughts and feelings, etc'.. but I can't be sure. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Dodo]

8 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Dodo The only thing I know with 100% certainty is that something seems to be happening right now. I may totally confused about what that something is.   The One thing that I am absolutely sure exists for me (the totality of my experience, whatever that may actually be) seems like lots of things. It's seems like there's an 'independent you with inner thoughts and feelings, etc'.. but I can't be sure. 

Be sure,  you are not alone... Love is unity.. On any level.. Could be unity of souls, or of people, or of atmans.. Points... Emptinesses in different locations within absolute emptiness / infinities inside absolute infinity...  Beings created by a loving God that values Love above all else... You name it ?

if you are in relationship you have to acknowledge the Truth in the other, as well as yourself.. I guess the being element...

[Mason Riggle]

@Dodo I have no problem acknowledging that the imagined separation is as real as it's ever going to get.   I seem to be 'here', typing my comment to 'you over there', and that's what my experience is right now, and that 1 experience of separate things is what is 'real' for me. 

Imaginary/Real.. no different. 
 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-06-10 at 11:08 PM, RMQualtrough said:

but something appears, and when that something appears duality appears and then it is possible for there to be an experience of something, and thus an experiencer.

It seems to be an experiencer and something experienced until it doesn't.  Then it will be experience experiencing itself or however you want to put it.

[Godishere]

@RMQualtrough I feel the slightly more true statement would be to say non duality cannot be experienced by the ego (you). It's this "you" that seems to have mislead people. Since you are the Absolute and the relative experience, you as an imaginary human can experience what feels like downloading the insight after slipping in and out of a state of nothingness. But during these states of nothingness or formlessness you are still conscious/aware. YOU, the Absolute, God. 

 

[RMQualtrough]

54 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@RMQualtrough I feel the slightly more true statement would be to say non duality cannot be experienced by the ego (you). It's this "you" that seems to have mislead people. Since you are the Absolute and the relative experience, you as an imaginary human can experience what feels like downloading the insight after slipping in and out of a state of nothingness. But during these states of nothingness or formlessness you are still conscious/aware. YOU, the Absolute, God. 

This seems right.

I am curious still, though, what God-You experiences when it experiences Everythingness all at once. Is it not like the thing with the dream of a beach? If you are not localized within the beach it would be impossible to see any of it.

God-You is not localized but is in all localized forms.

Does God-You not simply permanently reside in nothingness? Only experiencing something when the localized forms manifest. Sort of like it exists in one place (nothingness) but projects itself into the dream, the somethingness.

As the dreamer never leaves the bed during the entirety of the dream, God never leaves nothingness?

[Moksha]

Consciousness is both the dreamer and the dream. Ultimate and relative reality resolve into the sameness that Consciousness is.

[Karas]

@RMQualtrough Did the big bang happened   I don't think so 

[Godishere]

@RMQualtrough ahh yes, I see your point and I have experienced the answer to this. You are not a human. A human is an imaginary concept including a beach. Once you grasp this, and I mean you become so conscious you realize you are imagining eyes that "see" an objective world, you realize you were never localized anywhere. 

These insights are not going to be achieved through meditation/self inquiry by the average person. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Godishere

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Godishere said:

@RMQualtrough ahh yes, I see your point and I have experienced the answer to this. You are not a human. A human is an imaginary concept including a beach. Once you grasp this, and I mean you become so conscious you realize you are imagining eyes that "see" an objective world, you realize you were never localized anywhere. 

These insights are not going to be achieved through meditation/self inquiry by the average person. 

Right, God isn't localized, but this particular dreamscape (our universe) is, and the eyes you said are imaginary are something localized within it.

When eyes see, it is a localization.

I am thinking that God can only experience this universe via imaginary eyes and imaginary bodies etc.

This body or these eyes are not where God resides. It resides in nothingness. The imagination of a body and eyes is the somethingness through which experience can take place.

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Karas said:

@RMQualtrough Did the big bang happened   I don't think so 

I have no issue with scientific discoveries. If this is God's dream, science is merely an exploration of God just as inner work is.

But there were IMO no conscious minds at the start of this universe.

So I consider either a) consciousness can exist while dormant, it is just not conscious of anything yet, and acts sort of like some form of infinite energy/potential.

Or

b) BOTH consciousness, time, space, etc, all came from God but none of the things are fundamentally its sole nature, just each individually one single trait of what infinity is.

Someone wrote nothing is limitless. It is possible therefore it can be infinite things. So it may well be that true nothing is what all things reside in.

...

In either case these are very serious proposals IMO.

[BipolarGrowth]

@RMQualtrough You’ve gotta point out some important posts here if you want my feedback. I can’t go through reading all of this currently.

[RMQualtrough]

3 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

@RMQualtrough You’ve gotta point out some important posts here if you want my feedback. I can’t go through reading all of this currently.

Hey, I was hoping for your feedback regarding experience of cessation. I believe cessation is the only "true" experience of sheer nonduality (AKA literal escape from duality), though a "person" cannot subjectively actually experience the cessation in the sense that instead you seem to just skip forward in time.

Everything before cessation toes only up to the edge of the cliff face. As long as there is an appearance of ANYTHING there is still localization and hence an appearance of duality, regardless of how whatever is left interprets it.

Edited June 15, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Nahm]

On 6/12/2021 at 1:35 AM, RMQualtrough said:

But there were IMO no conscious minds at the start of this universe…I have no issue with scientific discoveries. If this is God's dream, science is merely an exploration of God just as inner work is.

If you are being conscious minds, the start, and the universe… if there is only now…are there really these?

If there are not these, then cessation is simply the absence of the thoughts about there being these. 

Even the thought ‘cessation’ could be entertained to be other than now.

Quote

So I consider either a) consciousness can exist while dormant, it is just not conscious of anything yet, and acts sort of like some form of infinite energy/potential.

Likewise, perhaps cessation lies within the absence of the thought - “consciousness”. (Then there isn’t dormant / not dormant, nor conscious of / not conscious of.) 

Quote

b) BOTH consciousness, time, space, etc, all came from God but none of the things are fundamentally its sole nature, just each individually one single trait of what infinity is.

This too could then be seen to be an ever so subtle veil of thought labelling. Eternal being might think itself to be time, infinite being might think itself to be space. Yet, if “being” can not think itself… 

Quote

Someone wrote nothing is limitless. It is possible therefore it can be infinite things. So it may well be that true nothing is what all things reside in..

And likewise, if nothing is what all things or anything resides in, then it is not per se nothing, as that albeit ever so subtly, defines / labels. 

On 6/12/2021 at 1:35 AM, RMQualtrough said:

In either case these are very serious proposals IMO.

Indeed. Yet……how funny would it be if it’s like, just, literally not at all serious? If “The Big It” is regular ol’ you already, that’d be one hell of a joke. A humor-cessation, some might say.