Dating: Does your body count matter?

[Terell Kirby]

Why do we put so much emphasis on the amount of past sexual partners in dating?

Happens with both men and women, but I feel as though women are shamed more for having a high count. How and why are we socially programmed to shun our sexuality? For you, how important is a person's body count when considering intimate relationship prospects?

[Mason Riggle]

from wikipedia - 
 

Promiscuity in adults[edit]

Sexual promiscuity in adults, as with adolescents, presents substantial risks to physical, mental, and socioeconomic health. Having multiple sexual partners is linked with risks such as maternal deaths and complications, cancers, sexually transmitted infections, alcohol, and substance use, and social condemnation in some societies.[11] A higher number of sexual partners poses a greater risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases, mental health issues, and alcohol/substance use.[11] Adults, however, are generally found to be less at risk of certain pregnancy and labor complications, such as cephalopelvis disproportion, than adolescents, while being at higher risk for other labor complications.[5][7]

Physical health effects[edit]

Promiscuity in adults has detrimental effects on physical health. As the number of sexual partners a person has in his or her lifetime increases, the higher the risk he or she contracts sexually transmitted diseases.[11] The length of a sexual relationship with a partner, the number of past and present partners, and pre-existing conditions are all variables that affect the development of risks in a person's life.[12] Promiscuous individuals may also be at a higher risk of developing prostate cancer, cervical cancer, and oral cancer as a result of having multiple sexual partners, and combined with other risky acts such as smoking, and substance use, promiscuity can also lead to heart disease.[11]

Despite the frequency of HIV/AIDS cases decreasing as medical treatment and education on the matter improve, HIV/AIDS has still been responsible for over 20 million lives in 20 years, greatly affecting the livelihoods of whole communities in developing nations.[13] According to the World Health Organization, over 40 million people are currently infected with HIV/AIDS, and 95% of these cases are in the developing world.[13]

Over 340 million treatable sexually transmitted diseases infect people around the world each year, which presents a great risk to individuals as they become more susceptible to HIV and more likely to spread the virus.[13]

Studies have also shown that individuals who engage in long-term relationships, as opposed to hypersexual and promiscuous behavior are less likely to fall victim to domestic violence.[11]

Mental health effects[edit]

While some studies claim that the number of sexual partners is directly correlated with mental health disorders, others find that promiscuity only results in substance use with no effect on depression or anxiety.[14] According to research conducted by Sandhya Ramrakha of the Dunedin School of Medicine, the probability of developing a substance use disorder increased linearly with an increase in the number of sexual partners.[14] This was particularly greater for women, however, there was no correlation with other mental health risks.[14] This contrasts other studies that find there indeed is a correlation between mental health risk and multiple sexual partners.[15]

[Bando]

Most women aren't biologically or emotionally meant to sleep with a lot of men. There isn't anything wrong with it its just how it is, if one of your female friends told you they slept with over 70 guys you would look at her different compared to someone whose only had 3 boyfriends.

If your comfortable being in a relationship with men or women with high body counts then good for you but most men would be skeptical to take a woman serious with a very promiscuous past

[universe]

A few years ago religions where pretty popular and people rarely talked about sex and where quite prude. This was a popular woman people looked up to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus

One of her greatest traits: Being a virgin.

Now the sentiment seems to change and this woman is quite popular https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Jenner

Being a virgin is not even listed on the wiki page anymore.

 

But this change happened quite recently so naturally we still carry some of the collective values from the past with us.

 

To add to that. Very high or very low numbers can be an indicator for the lifestyle that a person has. So if you want to know more about your date/partner it can be good to get these numbers.

Another point than the virgin mary on why we value sexual active men more than woman is because of the difficulty in getting sex.

A woman who has a lot of sex doesn't impress much because it is quite easy for women to get it.

On the other hand, for a man it is more difficult so it is an indicator of perseverance.

[Roy]

I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with having a high lay count. If you are responsible with consent and protection then that's good. But once the number starts to get to a certain point, eyebrows should be raised. It starts to say something about someone, especially with how they talk about it. Not to mention the obvious if you get to higher numbers it becomes reckless with their health and the people they meet. Even with protection.

Someone with a high body count, especially at a younger age should be viewed with "reservation" when being considered for a long term intimate relationship. That kind of behavior isn't indicative of someone who will be able to stick around. Not that they can't. I think people get what I mean.

It all depends. Sometimes people have phases in life and change their relationship styles. A person can be an animal early in life and then have a 10 year purposeful dry spell and be perfect partner material. In personal life for this topic you have to be willing to learn about people and give them a chance.

My last serious GF was pretty promiscuous before she met me, but I "locked" her down and never had any doubts after her faith to us, because I could read her well and ask certain questions about her past and current attitudes.

 

 

 

[Terell Kirby]

17 minutes ago, universe said:

To add to that. Very high or very low numbers can be an indicator for the lifestyle that a person has. So if you want to know more about your date/partner it can be good to get these numbers.

Another point than the virgin mary on why we value sexual active men more than woman is because of the difficulty in getting sex.

A woman who has a lot of sex doesn't impress much because it is quite easy for women to get it.

On the other hand, for a man it is more difficult so it is an indicator of perseverance.

So true! I guess my only question is how much of this is biological vs. social programming. I can see both sides of the coin.

[Terell Kirby]

15 minutes ago, Roy said:

I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with having a high lay count. If you are responsible with consent and protection then that's good. But once the number starts to get to a certain point, eyebrows should be raised.

Someone with a high body count, especially at a younger age should be viewed with reservation when being considered for a long term intimate relationship. That kind of behavior isn't indicative of someone who will be able to stick around. Not that they can't. I think people get what I mean.

It all depends. Sometimes people have phases in life and change their relationship styles. A person can be an animal early in life and then have a 10 year purposeful dry spell and be perfect partner material. In personal life for this topic you have to be willing to learn about people and give them a chance.

My last serious GF was pretty promiscuous before she me, but I "locked" her down and never had any doubts after her faith to us.

 

 

 

I can totally relate. I was in pickup for a solid 4 years or so where I increase my count tremendously. Although it was a great experience, I became drained. I've now been happily celibate after a 9 month relationship that ended a few years back. It is possible for folks to change their ways/value systems. I'm a guy of course, so I don't run into too many negatives and questions regarding lay count. 

[Terell Kirby]

31 minutes ago, Bando said:

Most women aren't biologically or emotionally meant to sleep with a lot of men. There isn't anything wrong with it its just how it is, if one of your female friends told you they slept with over 70 guys you would look at her different compared to someone whose only had 3 boyfriends.

If your comfortable being in a relationship with men or women with high body counts then good for you but most men would be skeptical to take a woman serious with a very promiscuous past

Agreed - men tend tend be very interested in counts of women lol. Although I have seen some guys ignore it (the whole "trying to turn a hoe into a housewife" thing). But then again, what is a hoe? Does slut shaming exist? What are the benefits and disadvantages of this label?

[Vzdoh]

For pretty women to get sex is easy. If I accepted all offers I get every day, my count would be in the hundreds. 

I get offers from guys ranging from 10 years younger to up to 10 years older. So there is no shortage of that. 

But for me, not sure about other women, emotional connection is the key. I simply can't enjoy sex without it. And very few guys actually want a true emotional connection because it means they will need to be vulnerable with me. And lots of men have issues being vulnerable in general and being vulnerable with the woman they like. 

So in my case, even if the guy is super assertive and had plenty of sex with other women, if he is not opening up and being vulnerable with me, I will lose my initial interest and attraction and move on. I don't date/have sex when vulnerability and emotions are missing from the equation. 

So if a woman has a high body count, to me ut just means she is not in touch with her emotions or healthy psychologically, i. E. Trying to use sex to replace emotions or use it as a manipulation tectic to get close to the guy, and that never works. 

[Raptorsin7]

What is considered a high body count?

If a woman I was interested in had a very high body count I would be very suspicious and it would be a turn off. It wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker depending on how the person has changed, but if a woman sees no issue with a very high body count (like way over 10-15) I wouldn't take her seriously I don't think.

@Vzdoh Do you judge your male partners according to their body count? Do you expect men to judge you based on your body count?

[MatteO22]

10 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Why do we put so much emphasis on the amount of past sexual partners in dating?

Cuz we’re all insecure af 

[Terell Kirby]

8 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

Cuz we’re all insecure af 

I can dig this. @Vzdoh thanks for sharing it from a females perspective. It's really interesting to think that men and women both envy each others orientation towards sex. Most guys would love to have the amount of sexual opportunities women get, but don't realize the physical aspects are not as important as the emotional aspect for women - so it really all evens out in the end.

[Roy]

53 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What is considered a high body count?

I'd say 20+, for either gender. I don't buy into the red pill laced talking point and attitude that women "should" have a lower lay count than men. It just comes from insecurity from thousands of years of subconscious patriarchy eroding 

Also have to keep in mind this is a self improvement forum, with some dysfunctional people, and PUA's who will distort perceptions of what is normal or "healthy".

Of all the "normies" I've met in my life (99.9999% of people not doing self-help), I would discern most of them have never had more than 5-15ish sexual partners. Which seems like a pretty reasonable and healthy number of people to engage with in that way.

[MatteO22]

5 minutes ago, Roy said:

Also have to keep in mind this is a self improvement forum, with some dysfunctional people, and PUA's who will distort perceptions of what is normal or "healthy".

I feel like this creates a lot of problems in the dating section.

 

I can’t seem to understand why it isn’t general consensus here that most of the pickup culture is extremely toxic and fails both men and women in emotional fulfilment.   
 

Leo still somewhat promotes pick up advice, and I’m like... why. I remember that stage of my journey. Lasted a few months and moved beyond it very quickly by integrating my unhealed emotions. 
 

Why do we need to keep beating a dead horse ya know ?  

Edited June 11, 2021 by MatteO22

[Terell Kirby]

2 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

I feel like this creates a lot of problems in the dating section.

 

I can’t seem to understand why it isn’t general consensus here that most of the pickup culture is extremely toxic and fails both men and women in emotional fulfilment.   
 

Leo still somewhat promotes pick up advice, and I’m like... why. I remember that stage of my journey. Lasted a few months and moved beyond it very quickly by integrating my unhealed emotions. 
 

Why do we need to keep beating a dead horse ya know ?  

Hmm - I don't think pick up culture is a bad thing per say (of course it can have toxic elements). I know for me, I was really bad at attraction before finding PUA/self-help materials that allowed to increase my count from 2 to 12 within a three year time frame. There are healthy forms of pick up, and most guys have to go through this stage to integrate their masculinity and move on to bigger and better things (such as spirituality, tapping into their feminine essence, etc). I would couch it with spiral dynamics - pickup is mainly a stage orange activity to integrate before going to stage green. You have to fully integrate these stages of development.

[MatteO22]

1 minute ago, Terell Kirby said:

Hmm - I don't think pick up culture is a bad thing per say (of course it can have toxic elements). I know for me, I was really bad at attraction before finding PUA/self-help materials that allowed to increase my count from 2 to 12 within a three year time frame. There are healthy forms of pick up, and most guys have to go through this stage to integrate their masculinity and move on to bigger and better things (such as spirituality, tapping into their feminine essence, etc). I would couch it with spiral dynamics - pickup is mainly a stage orange activity to integrate before going to stage green. You have to fully integrate these stages of development.

I think you’re right. I think that just going out and meeting women and trying to have sexual and intimate relationships is wonderful and needed at a certain point.

 

and yet, the pick up culture is much more than that, it’s the endless objectification of women (and men equally) it’s degrading love as ‘oneitus’, it’s promoting toxic masculinity, it’s oversexualization of women and men. It’s the ideas that you have to be mean or manipulative towards women in order for them to like you, it’s the men who’re like ‘hah emotional sensitivity is so gay I just wanna slay sum puss bruh’. 
 

THIS is the toxic part of pick up that ruins the interaction between the sexes and makes it harmful and dysfunctional. 

[Terell Kirby]

@MatteO22 I concur...I think the Red Pill and MGTOW (men going their own way) movements are deeply misogynistic and patriarchal. Definitely toxic for both men and women. Masculine and feminine essences and how they interact never change, society just has to get used to the evolution of how these essences are now being expressed. Not every guy needs to be the college jock or a douchebag/asshole to be considered a mans man. And not every woman needs to be America's next top model to be beautiful in her own right. 

[MatteO22]

2 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

@MatteO22 I concur...I think the Red Pill and MGTOW (men going their own way) movements are deeply misogynistic and patriarchal. Definitely toxic for both men and women. Masculine and feminine essences and how they interact never change, society just has to get used to the evolution of how these essences are now being expressed. Not every guy needs to be the college jock or a douchebag/asshole to be considered a mans man. And not every woman needs to be America's next top model to be beautiful in her own right. 

A-Fucking-Men. Hallelujah the truth has been spoken. 

[Bando]

@Raptorsin7 For most guys anything higher than 30 is considered a high body count as the average guy sleeps with about 7-15 girls their lifetime. For girls I would say anything higher than 20.

I remember talking to some of my female friends about this and they would explain to me after a bad break up they would go on a dating spree and fuck the hottest guys they could match with to "regain their confidence"

One girl I met from TInder told me she went through a nasty break up and I was her 11 guy she slept with in the past month, that blew my mind.

[Harlen Kelly]

5 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

So if a woman has a high body count, to me ut just means she is not in touch with her emotions or healthy psychologically, i. E. Trying to use sex to replace emotions or use it as a manipulation tactic to get close to the guy, and that never works. 

I thought you as a woman would defend women who were open sexually instead of shaming them. I could understand that behavior coming from an unexperienced guy but not from a woman. 

Open your mind to the possibility that there are women who simply like having sex with multiple people and have no issues expressing that desire. And that doesn't imply that they are psychologically behindert in any way. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Harlen Kelly