Phobia of people who don't care about improvement

[tatsumaru]

I know this sounds arrogant, but that's not what it is.
When I am around people who haven't changed a bit for the last 20 years I get scared.
I feel like an alien for being interested in self-improvement and for being the only one willing to do the work and I panic.
Also when I see these people that are suffering for the same reasons as 20 years ago and still complaining about the same things, that just feels so depressing. It's like they've reduced themselves to a movie that's been stuck on replay for 20 years. To spend your WHOLE life as an unconscious automaton who never gained even 1 bit of consciousness.
I can't stomach this tragedy and feel depressed for the whole day afterwards.

How can I cope with stagnation?

Edited June 9, 2021 by tatsumaru

[BlackMaze]

The majority of people are like this... This is the default mode. Just accept it and be happy that you don't belong to this group. 

[tatsumaru]

1 hour ago, BlackMaze said:

The majority of people are like this... This is the default mode. Just accept it and be happy that you don't belong to this group. 

It feels like I live in a world with nobody in it. I was never good at just accepting things.

[Flowerfaeiry]

@tatsumaru I used to do this ALL THE TIME. But then wasn't taking much good action in my own life. Hahaha. Make sure you use it as inspiration and don't just judge them forever. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

6 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

I know this sounds arrogant, but that's not what it is.
When I am around people who haven't changed a bit for the last 20 years I get scared.
I feel like an alien for being interested in self-improvement and for being the only one willing to do the work and I panic.
Also when I see these people that are suffering for the same reasons as 20 years ago and still complaining about the same things, that just feels so depressing. It's like they've reduced themselves to a movie that's been stuck on replay for 20 years. To spend your WHOLE life as an unconscious automaton who never gained even 1 bit of consciousness.
I can't stomach this tragedy and feel depressed for the whole day afterwards.

How can I cope with stagnation?

See divine perfection in finite imperfection. Maybe take some psychedelics to see it. 

[Applegarden8]

Well, lazy people are dangerous for a dude who wants to be active and active people are danger for lazy people's laziness. Both get challenged. Don't bother, do your thing. Let that pain lead to transformation and Self-acceptence. Over time you will develop more and more self-trust, when you act and see your models working.

[tatsumaru]

It's not just about me though.
I get depressed by their suffering and stuckness in the same suffering for their whole life.
I feel like they are stuck in some nightmare and no one can help them. Just depresses the shit out of me.
 

[Michael569]

there is a big element of where you are born, to what sort of family, what level of intellect do your parents have and what level of education is available to you. For example if you are born to a typical low-life family in some rural region here in Britain, you are pretty much F-ed for life. Your ambitions even if there are any, get stumped on and pissed on by your drunk ass father and your neurotic crazy bi**ch mother, both your parents are ill, obese, have extremely low IQ, addictions and so many neurosis that it would take an army of psychiatrists to name them. I see families like these everywhere I go and it is sad but these kids really have no chance of escaping. The daughters become to mothers tending to their mom's neurotic needs and desires and sons become cast-outs, doing some low paid, shitty jobs exposing them to toxins and further destroying their potential. 

Over generations, resources have been taken away from them to feed the many feisty mouths of corporate London. At least this is UK, I assume a lot of rural America is like this as well and I see these dynamics in my  homecountry in Eastern Europe as well. 

So it's not always laziness or lack of interest, sometimes it genuinely is being f-ed from birth by growing up in family with no access to resources, being born to mothers exposed to toxins and shitfood with diminished IQ and diminished brain capacity. And this is not some rare exceptions, we are talking millions of people

[IAmReallyImportant]

50 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

It's not just about me though.
I get depressed by their suffering and stuckness in the same suffering for their whole life.
I feel like they are stuck in some nightmare and no one can help them. Just depresses the shit out of me.
 

This is thinking or rumination. It has nothing to do with actual reality. They may not feel as depressed about themselves as you do.
It also implies that there are right and wrong ways to live. As if there is an actual truth out there that says you have to evolve or grow.
You don't feel their suffering, you feel yours. Their interpretations, etc . If you look more closely, you will see that there are no other people in the sense that you might imagine.

[IAmReallyImportant]

I think real compassion is when you love people or appearances as they are, meaning seeing the perfection in them instead of things "needed to be fixed".

[tatsumaru]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

there is a big element of where you are born, to what sort of family, what level of intellect do your parents have and what level of education is available to you. For example if you are born to a typical low-life family in some rural region here in Britain, you are pretty much F-ed for life. Your ambitions even if there are any, get stumped on and pissed on by your drunk ass father and your neurotic crazy bi**ch mother, both your parents are ill, obese, have extremely low IQ, addictions and so many neurosis that it would take an army of psychiatrists to name them. I see families like these everywhere I go and it is sad but these kids really have no chance of escaping. The daughters become to mothers tending to their mom's neurotic needs and desires and sons become cast-outs, doing some low paid, shitty jobs exposing them to toxins and further destroying their potential. 

Over generations, resources have been taken away from them to feed the many feisty mouths of corporate London. At least this is UK, I assume a lot of rural America is like this as well and I see these dynamics in my  homecountry in Eastern Europe as well. 

So it's not always laziness or lack of interest, sometimes it genuinely is being f-ed from birth by growing up in family with no access to resources, being born to mothers exposed to toxins and shitfood with diminished IQ and diminished brain capacity. And this is not some rare exceptions, we are talking millions of people

Yeah that's why I've been contemplating that it's particularly important for people of higher consciousness to work hard to disentangle these old structures of oppression, purposelessness and slavery. It's like you are caring for your children - they are completely helpless without you, but you guide them into happiness. We can't say that it's okay to let your children figure it out on their own. Individuality is relative, not absolute. Still though, seeing these people resorting to alcoholism, kicking their dogs, beating their wives and being in silent and sometimes even in loud despair their whole life, it breaks my heart. Sometimes I just cry that people don't even know that there is such a thing as self-actualization or that there's at least some potential for improvement. I have to do something about it. This needless suffering has to go.

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

This is thinking or rumination. It has nothing to do with actual reality. They may not feel as depressed about themselves as you do.
It also implies that there are right and wrong ways to live. As if there is an actual truth out there that says you have to evolve or grow.
You don't feel their suffering, you feel yours. Their interpretations, etc . If you look more closely, you will see that there are no other people in the sense that you might imagine.

Sometimes we are projecting, but IMO more often it is actual suffering. When you have a broken leg and you can't heal it or it gets infected  that's suffering it's not projection IMO. When you are depressed and you want to kill yourself that's suffering. People have different authentic personalities but they have the same needs, so this idea that someone who is an alcoholic and hates their life is actually not suffering but I am only imagining it is just self-delusion IMO. There is one way to live right, it doesn't mean that everyone needs to do the same jobs or eat the same foods or like the same music, but the needs are the same for everyone and not meeting those needs has the same consequences for everyone.

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

I think real compassion is when you love people or appearances as they are

Depends what you mean by 'as they are', if you mean 'as they are deluded' then I don't agree. If you mean 'as they really are' then I agree.

Tony Parsons suggested that “The only compassion is that which destroys the illusion of separation”.

HH Dalai Lama said, “If I have any understanding of compassion, it all comes from studying the Bodhicharyavatara;” a bodhisattva text written by Shantideva. One may then inquire, what does the Bodhicharyavatara say? It says, “The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible.”

"Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible”- Robert Thurman

In other words compassion grounded in anything but truth aka beliefs is fake compassion no matter how well-intended it is. According to these beings compassion is about dispelling ignorance, not about being indifferent towards it. I seem to resonate with this notion. Whether that advice is Buddhist or not is irrelevant, this isn't about believing in Buddhist dogma, but rather to provoke an inquiry into the question if one can be truly compassionate if they don't know directly what's true. Is one compassionate by giving euthanasia to terminally ill patients when a cure unknown to that person exists?

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Snader]

9 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

Yeah that's why I've been contemplating that it's particularly important for people of higher consciousness to work hard to disentangle these old structures of oppression, purposelessness and slavery.

 

9 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

I have to do something about it. This needless suffering has to go.

You just figured it out for yourself right there.

By raising your consciousness and having awakenings and insights about the nature of life, especially suffering, can make some big shifts in the way you look at suffering. While you're at it, you can work to understand the system and see where it comes short and then with your own action, start contributing into fixing those issues. That of course requires that you understand the system as a whole with all its parts, which is quite hard and laboring.

If you want to DO something to fix those problems, there really isn't any other way than studying the shit out of what's really going on, and then start taking the right kind of action.

But yeah I feel you, it's frustrating to see people being stuck and hitting their head against the wall year after year and see that leading to unnecessary suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

What I think when I see those people is that I am them ... and what a shit it is to be them. It seems fine to me to be a dog, a rock or a tree, but being those people is dramatic. a cosmic joke, or a cosmic fucking

[tricksntraps]

It is a hard thing to deal with though. And I'm not even sure how to deal with this properly. At the moment I try to keep busy with hobbies and exercising

[nistake]

You definitely influence your environment even if you're not aware of it. If you learn how to talk about self-development/spirituality in a skillful way, that helps a lot.

I have many people in my family and social circle to whom I've been a good influence. What I mean by that is I started reforming my life a few years ago and they probably noticed that I felt better and better. After that I learned how to talk about these matters and I stated several times how effective these various practises were for me. Then, I noticed people around me started doing some self-help or even meditation and stuff like that. Leading by example what I'm talking about basically.

Quote

Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by nistake

[Michael569]

56 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

I have to do something about it.

Sounds like a powerful call to your Hero's Journey

[IAmReallyImportant]

3 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Sometimes we are projecting, but IMO more often it is actual suffering. When you have a broken leg and you can't heal it or it gets infected  that's suffering it's not projection IMO. When you are depressed and you want to kill yourself that's suffering. People have different authentic personalities but they have the same needs, so this idea that someone who is an alcoholic and hates their life is actually not suffering but I am only imagining it is just self-delusion IMO. There is one way to live right, it doesn't mean that everyone needs to do the same jobs or eat the same foods or like the same music, but the needs are the same for everyone and not meeting those needs has the same consequences for everyone.

What I mean it is suffering you perceive as their. But you always experience your own emotions. You never really know what they feel. You are imagining it.

They can do what they want. It is their life. Only they can know what is good for them. Otherwise you would take away their power which is impossible. Everyone is always in their perfect pace and life situation. 

You basically tell their life is shit while you are the one who surely experience suffering. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

I have seen more suffering than most people in European countries. Things you cannot imagine unless you experience it yourself. People who live in a hell, a suffering that goes so deep nobody can take it without going crazy. Like people who are surprised if they make it to the next day.

When I see some self-improvement people who want to improve others I clearly see the ego in them. Because, when you are healthy and in a non-violent environment you can be grateful just for what is instead of wanting to have more everyday. Wanting to be better. People who are working in 9 to 5 are the luckiest humans you can imagine compared to people in Auschwitz etc.. Everybody is already great. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[IAmReallyImportant]

 

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Sounds like a powerful call to your Hero's Journey

Would be a life purpose from a negative motivation.

 

What is obvious is, that @tatsumaru is not satisfied with himself and projects his dissatisfaction on other people. If someone would be really compassionate, the person would not react in that way. Most of all, react that emotionally. It is not a call to Hero's Journey per se, but more a call for alignment.

[tatsumaru]

13 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

I have seen more suffering than most people in European countries. Things you cannot imagine unless you experience it yourself. People who live in a hell, a suffering that goes so deep nobody can take it without going crazy. Like people who are surprised if they make it to the next day.

When I see some self-improvement people who want to improve others I clearly see the ego in them. Because, when you are healthy and in a non-violent environment you can be grateful just for what is instead of wanting to have more everyday. Wanting to be better. People who are working in 9 to 5 are the luckiest humans you can imagine compared to people in Auschwitz etc.. Everybody is already great. 

This is a very narrow reasoning. Go check out Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Do you really think that people who live in third world countries and don't even have access to water suddenly become profoundly happy when someone gives them a glass of water? Certainly there's some relief, but survival isn't enough for people. They might be grateful for a while that they have running water when they install the new plumbing but living without purpose is hell regardless of your level of comfort and JUST BECAUSE you can increase that hell further by even subtracting the most basic needs doesn't change that fact.