Realization: Appearance appearing to No-one. (with a question)

[OneIntoOne]

Just became conscious that:

Everything is (and can be) imagined. Everything is JUST whats appearing. 

And, its appearing to no-one.

The ME will say hey, don't you see its happening to ME?!

Yea, thats what appearing, "ME thinking happening to me appearing"

 

Question that appears, if any one can answer it might appear to help.

Is it possible to heal anxiety and light trauma (not PTSD) by realizing the above-like no self?

I feel from one end all i have to do is keep on meeting the moment and not resist, surrender fully. No appearance or happening is nether good or bad.

Like:

"resistance to realize the moment appearing" 

"Its appearing to appear an appearance about appearing (LOL)"

"anxiety about XYZ appearing"

 

From the other hand i still wander, can something like this help someone cure anxiety, trauma, neuroses, or cognitive distortion?

Without using this as an escape, because you realize right away:  "Using no-self as an escape from XYZ is appearing" 

And you surrender right away to whats appearing like: "resisting to surrender what's happening appearing"

And so goes the cycle.

Its tricky. would appreciate any thought on that.

 

 

[Mu_]

It’s possible.  Science is becoming hip to the healing effects of a divine experience through certain psychedelics. No reason why divine experience outside of psychedelics couldn’t happen as well.

It certainly does in my experience both from using and none using. 

The how and the reproducing of such is a little more of a mystery. I imagine there will be some interesting science on this stuff 100-1000 years from now, if we don’t destroy a great deal of ourselves and the planet by then. 

[Moksha]

Anxiety, depression, OCD, and other mental disorders are products of our biology and our conditioning. Most humans suffer from these plagues in some form or another. The beauty of meditation is the diligent practice of deconditioning, and the deepening realization of our ultimate nature. We become less triggered by what happens outside of us, and more connected to the infinite wellspring of Consciousness, which is who we actually are.

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, OneIntoOne said:

From the other hand i still wander, can something like this help someone cure anxiety, trauma, neuroses, or cognitive distortion?

Without using this as an escape, because you realize right away:  "Using no-self as an escape from XYZ is appearing" 

I agree with @Mu_ it can heal you. There a big chance you will use no-self as an escape. It feels so good escaping and so bad to face your issues. But eventually you'll face them. Especially since you'll be on the look out for any escaping happening.

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, OneIntoOne said:

Is it possible to heal anxiety and light trauma (not PTSD) by realizing the above-like no self?

Frankly it sounds to me like your realization is not very deep, but more intellectual. Which is not a true awakening.

Those things are best healed by awakening to Love. But no-self can also help. Depends how deep it is and what flavor it takes.

There is not a single no-self realization, there are many kinds and levels to them.

[captainamerica]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is not a single no-self realization, there are many kinds and levels to them.

@Leo Gura Any hints or examples for this? 

Couldn't yet find enough data points about it to make very good distinctions.

[Leo Gura]

50 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

@Leo Gura Any hints or examples for this?

Well, for example, the no-self on salvia was so profound that I lost the ability to even remember that I had a life or a name.

Salvia gives me a terrifying degree of no-self. Imagine not even being able to conjure up the thought of being human. Like you can't ever remember what a human is.

And that was a threshold dose. 1 or 2 small puffs of the pipe. I don't want to know what a breakthrough dose of salvia is like.

Classical Buddhist no-self is not that profound.

[OneIntoOne]

@Leo Gura

Ram Dass on Psychedelics: "They don't allow you to become the possibility, they only show you the possibility."

I know you and most us here disagree with this.

But i am braking my head how to make any stage of awakening permeant. I think awakening is about remembering what needs to be remembered to stay awake. Do i make sense?

I feel as soon as the high of Psychedelics wheres off, the profound remembering and insides gets less and less until you just remember it as a story like you remember what you ate for breakfast yesterday.

How can we make it our reality and permanently awaken to whatever stage of awakening a person is at, and clime the letter from there up and up to infinity ( i don't think there are limits as to how high one can go with awakenings)

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OneIntoOne said:

@Leo Gura

Ram Dass on Psychedelics: "They don't allow you to become the possibility, they only show you the possibility."

I know you and most us here disagree with this.

I agree with it.

I have tested this point more than almost anyone. And it does not work on me. I tested it rigorously.

[Brivido]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I agree with it.

@Leo Gura

So you have changed your mind about the possibility of achieving a permanent non-dual state of consciousness through psychedelics, like Martin Ball has done?  

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, OneIntoOne said:

@Leo Gura

Ram Dass on Psychedelics: "They don't allow you to become the possibility, they only show you the possibility."

I haven't used any psychadelics so I can't say whether it's true or not but the same can be said for what @Leo Gura buddhist no-self. The first experience of no-self is usually a glimpse that wears off after a while. 

A deeper one is the one where there are shifts between the self and no-self that pendulum back and forth.

And abiding no self is permanent.

@Leo Gura

I guess what you mean about buddhist no-self is that no psychadelics has been used?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Brivido said:

@Leo Gura

So you have changed your mind about the possibility of achieving a permanent non-dual state of consciousness through psychedelics, like Martin Ball has done?  

Yes. I've spoken about this before.

I don't know what Martin's state is, I suspect it is far less than he assumes it to be, and his case is not generally applicable.

For the vast majority of people it will not work. This much is clear.

[Godishere]

I had a massive awakening (with psychs) into No self 2 days ago, then an 8 hour tattoo the following day. What I can say was no matter how much I focused on the singularity and detachment of self, after 6 hours that pain was fucking real. There was no meditative state I could enter that could ease the suffering.

[OneIntoOne]

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes. I've spoken about this before.

I don't know what Martin's state is, I suspect it is far less than he assumes it to be, and his case is not generally applicable.

For the vast majority of people it will not work. This much is clear.

@Leo Gura

So this is clear from now on: Psychedelics only show you and don't get you there.

I think most people here still trip around on Psychedelics thinking they will get anywhere and fool them selfs when they see what they see thinking this is awakening, then they crave that 'state' agin so they turn to Psychedelics again it becomes kinda an addictive cycle.

You should stress this more clearly.

So what IS the best way to get to no-self permanent?

[Mason Riggle]

5 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

So what IS the best way to get to no-self permanent?

The 'no-self' is already permanent.. what happens is, often times the belief in a 'separate self' arises, and other times it's not there. 

With practice, some humans get very consistent at remembering that the 'self' is a belief in something that isn't there, if that occurs.  You can't dispel 'the self', because there's no 'you' to dispel, and no 'you' who might dispel it..  There are organisms, that don't have a self, that sometimes have thoughts that they do.. 

[Brivido]

7 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

Psychedelics only show you and don't get you there.

They get you there. 

8 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

I think most people here still trip around on Psychedelics thinking they will get anywhere and fool them selfs when they see what they see thinking this is awakening

An awakening on psychedelics it's a real awakening. Psychedelics are extremely useful to show you what ego death and divine unione really are, and other profound realizations. The words of every teacher are just empty talk, without direct realization. You can't understand logically what awakening is and that's the problem with most people, they try to get a sort of degree on awakening. 

Psychedelics can give you the motivation to start a serious meditative practice, because they show you how good is to live without a self. Personally, my awakening through psychedelics have given me the motivation to seriously start practicing kriya yoga. My psychedelic work and my kriya work complement each other. I am 100% sure that all the awakening I had on mushrooms have helped me progress faster on my kriya path and viceversa. 

15 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

So what IS the best way to get to no-self permanent?

In my personal experience, kriya yoga, but you can try any kind of meditative practice which is close to your personality. With kriya yoga, after a couple of years practice, your brain will start rewiring itself, you can actually feel it. Lately, I am able to get into non-dual states of consciousness, for brief periods of time, at the end of my practice. Hopefully, sooner or later that is going to stick. Might have to write a post about my experience about it, in the future. 

[Moksha]

4 hours ago, OneIntoOne said:

So what IS the best way to get to no-self permanent?

Direct realization, and developing the spiritual discipline to remain present, regardless of what happens in the external world. You don't become a world class bodybuilder through drugs and self-affirmations. You hit the gym and work hard, over and over and over again. Gradually, you develop the muscle to lift heavier weights. Meditation is not as much about awakening as it is about increasing your capacity to stay awake.

The Buddha compared it to swimming upstream, against the current of the conditioned mind. Unless you are freakishly spiritually gifted (~ the top .00001% of humans), enlightenment will be a lifetime journey. Good news is that the destination is less important than the journey, and you can learn to enjoy every step.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Direct realization, and developing the spiritual discipline to remain present, regardless of what happens in the external world. You don't become a world class bodybuilder through drugs and self-affirmations. You hit the gym and work hard, over and over and over again. Gradually, you develop the muscle to lift heavier weights. Meditation is not as much about awakening as it is about increasing your capacity to stay awake.

The Buddha compared it to swimming upstream, against the current of the conditioned mind. Unless you are freakishly spiritually gifted (~ the top .00001% of humans), enlightenment will be a lifetime journey. Good news is that the destination is less important than the journey, and you can learn to enjoy every step.

?? It's necessary to work, don't be lazy, don't go with the flow

[VeganAwake]

The seeking can kind of flip in on itself and ask who the f*** is this so-called seeker anyways?

What's sometimes revealed can be quite shocking and simultaneously ordinary.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The seeking can kind of flip in on itself and ask who the f*** is this so-called seeker anyways?

What's sometimes revealed can be quite shocking and simultaneously ordinary.

 

 

the seeker is a mountain of shit that wants to clean itself. there's nothing to seek, just shit to remove