Should I fulfill an addictive desire or feel the emptiness?

[fopylo]

Leo's video on overcoming addiction suggests you sit with this feeling, but recently I see him and others say to fulfill this desire (such as wanting to have ice-cream) and savor it consciously until you transcend it. Problem is that I still find myself having ice-cream quite often. With what approach should I go? Should I fulfill the desire and express it consciously or suppress it and feel the emptiness?

[kag101]

Negotiate with yourself to limit how much ice cream you have. If you take the approach of “never eating it again”, then sooner or later it’ll backfire. 

[SgtPepper]

which ever way you choose, do it with awareness and you will get a clear image if it aligns with you.

[Nightwise]

Refer to my signature . (for future readers: I may have changed this since then)

Whatever decision you make is not essential. You'll notice that sometimes giving in to it feels right, and sometimes it doesn't. You notice sometimes that abstaining from the desire feels good to you, and sometimes it doesn't. Other times, you are very conflicted and it will be very unclear to you what to do or what not to do. Whatever you decide to do or not to do, see if you can see all of it, whether it's your confusion, your inner conflict, your desire and your corresponding action or lack thereof, see if you can notice all of this in a greater space of awareness. Notice the mind being confused about this. Notice yourself giving in to the desire. Notice yourself not giving into the desire.

It doesn't really matter what you do. It matters how you relate to it. Addictions are fueled by the perpetual cycle of identifying with a desire and acting upon it, often by it being followed up by getting identified with the narrative that says it's bad and you shouldn't do it, which then results in a struggle of you trying to not give into it. If you can simply see that this perpetual cycle of identification with either desire or resistance is the root of addiction, you will be able to step out of it and then eventually you will be able to choose in freedom whether you engage with a desire or not. And there's absolutely no judgement in it. Even if you desire to smoke a pack of cigarettes, then go for it if you consciously choose to do so. Most likely if you keep on doing consciousness work the desire to smoke cigarettes will fall away by itself. But even if it doesn't... I heard for instance that a well-respected saint called Nisargadatta used to smoke cigarettes whilst he was giving a lecture, and because he realized that there was absolutely no shame in doing so and that it had nothing to do with consciousness itself, he was totally okay and owning up to the fact that he was doing that.

And of course, I'm taking cigarettes as an example now, but the same with ice cream of course 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Nightwise

[Zigzag Idiot]

Well put @Nightwise @SgtPepper @kag101

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

Negotiate with yourself to limit how much ice cream you have. If you take the approach of “never eating it again”, then sooner or later it’ll backfire.

Being someone with a history of many addictions and wrestling with them. I’ve seen this phenomena many times. Associated with this is the law of three. The addiction is 2nd force in this instance. Whenever you fight or strongly resist 2nd force, it only makes it stronger. Sometimes expressed as that which you resist persists. This doesn’t mean complete indulgence though but I guess it could. More important, IMO, is to approach it in uniquely in your own way with deep understanding which means objective uncritical self-observation which everyone has kinda expressed in their own way.

Another phenomena out of the law of three. Never start a new octave with a lot of gathering of attention and fanfare. Referred to as an active do. As in do ra me of an octave. You have a much better chance of success by starting with a passive do. Starting low key, in other words. Below isn’t the precise enneagram to display for what I’m trying to express but it maybe kind of gives you an idea. The first major hurtle in an endeavor is getting past the me-fa  gap in the first octave between the point 3 and point 6.

Good luck to you,,,,

 

 

[fopylo]

Thanks guys. By the way I was lying on my bed before, feeling this empty feeling, and then went and had the ice-cream feeling into it. I don't think it was a good decision (like always) but at the moment it felt like it

@Zigzag Idiot By the way I don't understand this image at all ?

[kag101]

9 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Zigzag Idiot By the way I don't understand this image at all ?

Haha neither do I. Omg, how complicated...

9 hours ago, fopylo said:

By the way I was lying on my bed before, feeling this empty feeling,

Do you have any hobbies?

[fopylo]

@kag101

13 hours ago, kag101 said:

Do you have any hobbies?

Maybe. Hard to define. Tell me if you understand this: I did have some hobbies in the past, but due to day-to-day life events I've built resistance towards certain things which I could consider "hobbies". I avoid many things out of some unconscious fears, even if it's stupid things like buying a video game. I don't let myself too loose on those stuff. Don't get me wrong, I mean loose in general to both healthy and unhealthy things. I used to engage in many things, but as I'm entering this self actualization journey I've realized that it can't be sustainable to pursue all of them at the same time, as if they would all grow eventually but in a longer period of time. This is false, and I need to focus on one thing. Being clear on what's the one thing is what I struggle with and have some fear around. Fear of missing out is one of them, I don't want to fuck up with this. Due to this pressure I don't go out and make a decision, just stay stuck in my homeostasis, not doing pretty much anything...

I just saw the video How To Stop Backsliding which was quite insightful. I feel like I have almost all the tools I need to go and make a change, but I need to be clear on that. Taking the life purpose course isn't something very convenient for the time being. I'm just looking for going after something clear in the moment. I'm also not saying all that to complain, so please don't get the wrong attitude. I'm still growing and perhaps I'll find the answer for myself in not so long. Just had to let a bit out. The synchronicity of Leo's videos are amazing... aren't they?

[kag101]

On 10/06/2021 at 0:44 PM, fopylo said:

I've realized that it can't be sustainable to pursue all of them at the same time

keep in mind that it's also not sustainable to have a overly rigid approach to self development

On 10/06/2021 at 0:44 PM, fopylo said:

I need to go and make a change, but I need to be clear on that.

but like... what change you want to make? eat less ice cream?

On 10/06/2021 at 0:44 PM, fopylo said:

video How To Stop Backsliding

this is my favorite video from leo