Enlightenment Qualifications Continued

[Bizarre]

13 minutes ago, Bob84 said:

@GTITurbolover If your aware of it, its not awareness 
If awareness is speaking you are looking with what at what that is speaking?

Awareness can indeed be aware of itself. Awareness is its nature. You just have to know where to look and for that you need a shubda pramana and a qualified teacher to reveal it to you. Otherwise you're left with the blind leading the blind (modern teachings). 

The "mind" can't conceptualise awareness, but the intellect can speak the difference between aware and the objects appearing in it after the self has been revealed.

That's called discrimination (the first qualification for enlightenment), it's unique to Vedanta because only Vedanta says that the objects are you, but you are free of the objects. 

@Alex K FYI 

 

[Bizarre]

@Alex K

So, the qualifications:

Discrimination ( which is covered above)

Dispassion for objects (happens naturally once student can discriminate ) 

A shubda pramana (means of knowledge - Vedanta)

A qualified teacher who can wield the knowledge.

Self acceptance (warts and all)

Devotion ( bhakti - devotion for the self's reflection (Isvara, the cosmos) 

Foreberance 

Single pointedness of mind (a mind capable of contemplation on the teaching and being able to stay on course. A mind easily distracted won't assimilate knowledge of the self.)

Faith in the teachings pending the results of your inquiry. Curiosity and open mindedness transforms into knowledge upon seeing the truths revealed from the scriptures.

The point is not to change onselsef as a person, just to gain qualities of mind capable of assimilating the knowledge. 

The end result is that the person and the world is all perfect as is.  No need to change it because there is no desire to change it . Freedom is the goal. 

Now the saintliness of the person will depend on what his or her role is here, not their choice. Because once you know you are not the doer, the doer can't be changed, it is left to get on with its purpose here.

Vedanta teachings are free of charge, they belong to humanity, not to a person. Of course, the modern self help guys want you to think it's about personal transformation because it keeps them in business. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by GTITurbolover

[Bizarre]

 

 

[Lynnel]

1 hour ago, GTITurbolover said:

@LynnelBasically anyone who thinks samsara exists and still has some kind of desire.

Who think samsara is REAL, because it does exist, it's just not real.

As for desire, well, everyone has it. Even a jivamukta has the desire to eat so it can live longer - Isvara's programming I guess. So you mean disown your desire, realising it's the DMI desire and not yours ?

With those 2 parameters you can forget about 99.999% of the people

Edited November 14, 2016 by Lynnel

[Bizarre]

Just now, NTOgen said:

@GTITurbolover  I'm still looking into vedanta, but does it have anything to say about what one can do to meet all the qualifications? Is that where the yogas come in, or do they come in only after?

Seems to me that, in a relative sense, there are things that the individual can do to work on at least some of those qualifications to at least some extent. Or does Vedanta say if you don't meet the qualifications then sorry, can't be helped, or you're on your own, or something along those lines?

If you don't get it, then there is a block somewhere. You just go back and work on the qualifications until it sticks. 

It's a "leave no man behind" tradition. 

But they do tell you straight to get your psychological problems sorted if they discover that not even the basic teachings make sense.

 

[Bizarre]

@Lynnel Remember the Buddhist nonsense of the "desire to be desireless"?

Well. Vedanta says the jiva is still real, and has desires. It will always be a doer. But a self actualized person (jiva who is self realized and vasanas rendered non binding and doership cancelled and karmic account closed is the goal.

[Bizarre]

12 minutes ago, Lynnel said:

Who think samsara is REAL, because it does exist, it's just not real.

As for desire, well, everyone has it. Even a jivamukta has the desire to eat so it can live longer - Isvara's programming I guess. So you mean disown your desire, realising it's the DMI desire and not yours ?

With those 2 parameters you can forget about 99.999% of the people

Oh no Lynne, it doesn't exist either. At the quantum level it only comes into being because consciousness illumines it. 

But yeah, discrimination means you know the objects don't contain the happiness. That's the main teaching because you understand that you cannot win in Samsara

[Bizarre]

4 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

That's a pretty generic statement, though. Very few ever get it, does Vedanta have anything to say about what's blocking it, other than just "psychological problems"?

They tell you the lot. 

Not sure I've got the will to go into it in depth, but there are levels of teachings. 

Like at school. 

They start you off with self inquiry (above), and the qualifications are explained there. As you work your way through the texts:

Bhagavad-Gita 

Tattva Bodha

Atma Bodha

Vivekachdamani

Panchadasi

Then if you want to teach you study the Upanishads and then the Bhrama sutras to tie up all the apparent contradictions

All these texts reveal unresolved questions that the basic teaching didn't resolve. 

The qualifications are the traits of a psychologically healthy person.  If those qualities of mind are not there you need to work on development them through yoga.

Karma yoga is anger management. Angry people don't get enlightened lol. They do in the modern world, people like krishnamurti and Andrew Cohen do, cos there's no fucking standards and every tom dick and harry has an opinion on what is considered enlightenment these days

This is why we get all these enlightened assholes. Because they didn't qualify. They only had third rate epphiphanies and then set themselves up as gurus. It's a joke.

 

 

[Bizarre]

@NTOgen

I can give you a lot more information on Vedanta if you're up for it. 

But I won't do it on here, basically cos I'm wasting my time. All I'm willing to give this forum is the basics, and if they are prepared then they can go look into it. 

But I'm not going to write here for the likes of Bob and a wave in the ocean who seem to want to draw answers so they can strawman it. 

Fuck that. I got better things to do lol

I'll help only people who are savvy with it. 

[Bizarre]

9 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

You mention Greg Goode in the video. For anyone interested, the below channel has a bunch of Greg Goode videos (including the one that has this same exercise):

https://www.youtube.com/user/rogeringraham/videos

 

That's not me in the video. It's Vishnu one of James teachers.  Yeah, he mentions Greg Goode. Direct path. But if you want to hear James critique the Direct path too I've got files , hours of him deconstructing the problems with the direct path too. It's beautiful.

If you want to see him tear the evolutionary guys (Aurobindo ken Wilber) to pieces you can find that on his blog "Advaita vision". He makes ken Wilber look like a school boy with this silly spiral dynamics and meta cognition self deception. He's a genius.

Edited November 14, 2016 by GTITurbolover

[Bizarre]

3 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

@GTITurbolover Makes sense, thanks man. No need to go more in-depth, I'm looking into it on my own and I think I've got what I need to work with (or know where to find it if I don't). Was just curious as to where vedanta "begins", so to speak.

 

Fair enough, I don't doubt it, but then again I can't deny that some of that stuff has been very helpful to me along the way. I've got no beef with it to the extent that it makes sense. And to whatever extent it doesn't make sense, well we're just getting what we want, aren't we.

Vedanta begins when you have had enough of trying to make samsara work. 

If you don't get that, you don't become enlightened. Everything else is just child's play, because unenlightenment means the self is seeking itself in objects.

A five year old could understand it, but most people won't allow it. They still want experience and to save the world.

What world?

[Alex K]

@GTITurbolover  pity, you've just shattered my hopes /

Edited November 14, 2016 by Alex K

[Bizarre]

5 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

... sorry couldn't help myself

I would only take a YouTube guru (or any modern guru) seriously if they could complete a dharma combat with the sampradaya. Until that happens it's safe to assume that the sampradaya has the monopoly on experience.

A funny quote from my teacher:

"the spiritual world is the worst place to go for information about enlightenment" lol

Cos it's all spiritual poseurs out for a "spiritual good time" . 

 

[Alex K]

@GTITurbolover So, please give a basic as in simple book to start inqury into vedanta plz.

I guess a school really would be needed to get somewhere far with it?

I've read your posts 2-3 times and either your way smarter than me or you to far in it, but I cant get any complete idea out. I need something basic. Only can congrat Neo on getting it straight away.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Alex K

[Bizarre]

1 minute ago, NTOgen said:

Lol ok well I obviously can't speak to the veracity of that statement and I'm not convinced that anyone could, but I get where you're coming from and I agree with the basic message in what you're saying.

You got to remember, the sampradaya was constructed over thousands of years of observation. Tested. Retested. And it works. There have been millions of enlightened people in our history. Not just the famous ones. It was a common thing in the Vedic culture.

Put that against someone who has read the "five languages of love",a bit of Jed McKenna taken a couple of trips and is not even aware that maya is operating on every read, and also on every opinion presented in each of these self help books and the result is a bunch of teenagers wondering if they should go for enlightenment or life purpose first like they can just read a few books from norqvist and Ralston and imagine that they are "studying all the great traditions" .

Maya is everywhere and it's the reason why nobody gets enlightenment these days.  

The Disneyfication and commercialisation of enlightenment is well entrenched in the modern spiritual world. And nobody bats an eyelid. 

Anyway, it shouldn't be called enlightenment, it should not be marketed as Enlightenment either. It's only "awakening" and as Swartz rightly said "waking up into another dream"

[Bizarre]

54 minutes ago, Alex K said:

@GTITurbolover  pity, you've just shattered my hopes /

You have a life to live . You have to do that first. Nothing wrong with it. But of you're a "spiritual seeker" and that's what you want to be then move along, cos there is nothing to see here.

[Bob84]

@Alex K go watch adyashanti or mooji. easy to find on youtube. religion is not the way to enlightenment.

[Bizarre]

9 minutes ago, Bob84 said:

@Alex K go watch adyashanti or mooji. easy to find on youtube. religion is not the way to enlightenment.

Tamo guna. Take notes @Lynnel

That's funny. Because there is this thing we call the "satsang hoppers" who are the people who do the rounds with Mooji and Adyashanti. And then when they get fed up with it they find Vedanta, or Vedanta finds them, and it sets them free. 

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by GTITurbolover

[Bizarre]

Here's the karma sequence.

You know you guys are all taking about how religion is bullshit? Like Christianity and Islam and what not?

Well, that's true. But there is another level, more advanced, and they weed out the new age scene and expose that for bullshit too. 

There is a stage higher, but you won't be ready until you see that Mooji and Adyashanti and the neo guys are bullshit. 

That's just samsara

[Bizarre]

3 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

On second thought, if you have maybe some links or whatever where I can get an overview and/or access to what I need, I'd appreciate it. If you don't want to do it here then PM is good.

You're going to have to pm me because there is no opinion to message you. 

Unless it's bee disabled?

I have been blocked from posting here since Friday. Might have something to do with it