Enlightenment Qualifications Continued

[AlwaysBeNice]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not true.

Enlightenment isn't nihilism.

If anything, an enlightened person cares MORE about what's going on in the world because they have compassion and love, and understand the nature of ignorance and suffering.

It's possible to deeply care, but in a detached -- non-egoic -- way.

If you can't look at a small homeless crippled child and cry, your enlightenment isn't very deep. And if you don't care about anything or anyone, then your enlightenment has gone really awry.

I really like the Conversations with God books and therein it was said, about the suffering of the world, that it could all be seen as perfect (though I must say, I cry about the littlest things still sometimes), the reason that was given in short was:

'All of life arises out of choice and there is perfection in the process.'

And I think that is believable, as I know God is good and nothing happens by accident, sometimes people also experience this, people that have had the worst life's and they experience God and they say their life still was perfect in the grand scheme of things.

Whether an enlightened person would cry, I doubt it, only out of beauty I think, but I do belief they would live for love and be of service to beings, I mean, what else is there to do after true enlightenment.

-

As for the question as to what it is, I don't know.

I belief awakening goes on for infinity and enlightenment a big step, a big shift, from the ego to God and I think to see it in a person, they would be completely in the flow of their being, no holding back ever, because that always comes from fear and fear is the illusion that was let go off.

[Bizarre]

@Prabhaker

Yeah, I think you're right about the meditation thing, starting it is what matters.

I guess if I were to project meaning onto your statement, are you suggesting that I should f off with my conversation because this is a beginner's forum?

No Vedanta allowed here? 

Because other than that interpretation, I don't really understand why you're making a comment on this thread? This is a conversation about liberation and enlightenment qualifications.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by GTITurbolover

[Bizarre]

2 hours ago, NTOgen said:

I'll do this once and no more. For anyone who might be interested in it or inspired by it.

Quoted from "Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing" (bonus material), by Jed McKenna:

Quoted from "Theory of Everything: The Enlightened Perspective", by Jed McKenna:

 

Quoted from "Spiritual Warfare" (bonus material), by Jed McKenna:

Quoted from "Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment" (bonus material), by Jed McKenna:

 

Thanks. I have not read his books, but this sounds like very direct knowledge. Accurate too. 

More importantly however...(drumroll)...

What does Mr. Bean have to say about the issue?

I'd genuinely like to know cos I really don't want to develop a lop sided view of reality 

[Prabhaker]

7 hours ago, GTITurbolover said:

Ramana was a saint, but he didn't "care" as in nothing made any difference to him.  He didn't go out do-gooding to try to change things.  He didn't even teach, really.  And he never gave anything to anyone.  He peeled potatoes and ran his ashram and lived his life.  But yeah, he was a saintly person, but he was not interested in changing anything.

Would you like to comment on Krishna and prophet Muhammad. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, GTITurbolover said:

Its absurd to say that you have to study vast mount of spiritual literature to gain freedom, where does that end exactly?  And it's just more object chasing.  And of course, you're speaking from your limited experience, I think youre conflating this limeltless consciousness thing with the objects again.

Again, there is more to enlightenment than enlightenment.

You sure are insistent on bashing everything with your one hammer.

And be careful about assuming who's experience here is more limited.

[Bob84]

You can try to drill a hole with a hammer, and fail. Or you can come to the realization that you need a drill and use that instead.

[Bizarre]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, there is more to enlightenment than enlightenment.

You sure are insistent on bashing everything with your one hammer.

And be careful about assuming who's experience here is more limited.

Sorry Leo. Are you taking the piss?

You seem like a pretty intelligent guy, but sometimes I wonder if you're joking with me or not, cos I can't believe someone can be this stupid while showing your face in public.

So...if you have studied all the spiritual traditions in the world, you would have studied Vedanta and if you had studied Vedanta it would have made you drop your beliefs about what you think you know enlightenment to be.

But you haven't have you? So how about you go do the thing's your prescribing and go study it for yourself and come back and we can have a conversation. Cos right now you're just making a public tit of yourself.

[Bizarre]

19 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Would you like to comment on Krishna and prophet Muhammad. 

What are you talking about ? Muhammad was a murdering rapist and Krishna was made up as a teaching tool .

How old are you?

How long you been in this game?

What's your intentions here?

Quite frankly you're getting on my nerves with your stupid comments about things you don't even know about. 

If you got nothing of value to contribute here then why post?

Why don't you f##@ off back to where you *#@## came from you f***@## complete ££##@ yeah? Ok?? 

Edited November 11, 2016 by GTITurbolover

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, GTITurbolover said:

Quite frankly you're getting on my nerves with your stupid comments about things you don't even know about. 

If you got nothing of value to contribute here then why post?

Calm down, I just want to educate myself. If you don't like my posts , you can always ignore them.

[Prabhaker]

18 minutes ago, GTITurbolover said:

Muhammad was a murdering rapist and Krishna was made up as a teaching tool

Krishna had sixteen thousand wives. Now, what about the fifteen thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine men who have lost their wives?  

[Alex K]

@NTOgen @GTITurbolover Guys, all nice and well. But I've read through 45 posts and some of your other stuff and there is no clear thesis on what are the "Enlightenment Qualifications", care to deliver? Is asking who you are while sitting motionless 5 hrs a day a comprehensive how-to unknow the unknowledge?

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alex K

[Alex K]

@NTOgen Well then please share with me what progress do you have, everyone says drilling won't get you there, I want to drill deeper with you here.

[Bob84]

@Alex K If you would literally answer the question, "what are the qualification for enlightenment" the closest answer would be nothing.
But hey, 50 posts, lets see what else comes up .

[Bob84]

@NTOgen Have you ever had the experience where awareness becomes aware of itself?

[Alex K]

@NTOgen @Bob84 Guys, why don't you have photos of yourselves on avatars? And no journals! Show us some. I know you're not a teacher-teacher, we are all but a students )=. Seriously, I am mixing business with pleasure here. Sry if that's off topic.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alex K

[Alex K]

@NTOgen So first of all I was a jerk here because I didn't want the emotional and brain work based of my believes on our precious topic, for that I beg pardon.

"Also, consider this. Did you need to sit motionless for 5 hours a day to stop believing in the tooth fairy? How would that work? How did you really stop believing in the tooth fairy."

I think that here we have a problem of qualitative rather then quantitative difference. Tooth fairy believe dies easily because most of other believes about the world from observation, thinking and other people contradict it.

I have a believe that I'm awareness couched in nothing, etc. etc. But this believe does not get me where I want to be. Also I believe that ego is not a believe, it is a reality for me. I get emotional, caught up in my believes, attached, etc. These are factual observations, not believes as about tooth fairy. And to drop this "delusional reality", I believe I need a new tool - analyzing observations and believes of myself and other people - would not get me there - and here comes SDS and what not.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alex K

[Alex K]

@NTOgen I would like to comment on each sentence, but let's keep to the juiciest minimum.

1 hour ago, NTOgen said:

Think about christians who believe in an eternal afterlife of bliss in heaven. They say they believe it

I know that real christians only dislike that they are left alone w/o man they used to love and be with. But they firmly believe and act out of the place that the dead are in a better world so no grief for them is due. Suicide is the worst sin -> eternal suffering -> not doing it.

 

1 hour ago, NTOgen said:

That's what proper observation, investigation and contemplation is for.

Let's agree that thinking, investigation and analysis are the same thing - prefrontal cortex logical stuff, our "drill" as Rali puts it.

So asking yourself who am I, observing, contemplating, analyzing the answer and re-asking from that new place again and again - is what was postulated as "proper" stuff in my initial question, where SDS is a catalyzer. My question is what process do you postulate instead?

P.S. All this feedbacking and wiring stuff is not good - it's not formal enough to be biologically correct, let's drop it, it's a rabbit hole. (I sometimes think much simpler that pure awareness is one program and ego is the other and logic is the third, emotions is 4th, sensations, memory... and they all communicate with each other in our brain - computer)

1 hour ago, NTOgen said:

Yes it would! That's exactly what would do it! How did you arrive at your conclusion? Take a look at this because this is near the heart of the matter.

This is a misunderstanding -> from your previous points I understood you force that thinking on your belief web alone would do it w/o observations and contemplation and I exactly formulated my point based on that.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Alex K

[Alex K]

@NTOgen So everyone says that delusion is extremely simple - we are pure awareness entity, but there is an ego entity which substitutes itself for our real nature. All we need is to break this substitution, destroy this entity. 

So tell me what delusions would you observe, contemplate, think about to gradually destroy it, without extreme direct prolonged violence that is SDS and self enquiry? What steps have already been done for you? Our common steps are to learn about it as much as we need and learn a good strategy to do the work. Then your steps come. Please share some of them with me, how much is done? What is the game plan, rough outline?

[cetus]

50 minutes ago, Alex K said:

- it's not formal enough to be biologically correct,

39 minutes ago, Alex K said:

. All we need is to break this substitution, destroy this entity. 

 

What do you think of biocentrism?  It's a radically different view but worth exploring. "Life Creating Reality" Note: Listen to part one first.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by cetus56

[Bob84]

6 hours ago, Alex K said:

@NTOgen So everyone says that delusion is extremely simple - we are pure awareness entity, but there is an ego entity which substitutes itself for our real nature. All we need is to break this substitution, destroy this entity. 

So tell me what delusions would you observe, contemplate, think about to gradually destroy it, without extreme direct prolonged violence that is SDS and self enquiry? What steps have already been done for you? Our common steps are to learn about it as much as we need and learn a good strategy to do the work. Then your steps come. Please share some of them with me, how much is done? What is the game plan, rough outline?

@Alex K We are awareness but since birth have been convinced that we are the mind and body. And thus identify with it.
We are so used to this identification that even when you have a awakening it doesn't take long before we start infidelity with the body and mind again. You could call it a habit. One that you can break by being awareness a lot so that in a sense observable space is created between the awareness and the mind.
(do note that what i am writhing is not completely accurate as this awareness is already there and you dont need to do anything to get it, its just that in a sense, it has been hypnotized by the mind and believes it is the mind.)

Breaking or destroying anything thus doesn't make any sense or is required.
When you see ego, you have the option to in a sense pay attention to it or not. When you dont see ego and are blinded by it, you in a sense have no free will and are driven by it.