Complaining - a mechanical unconscious behavior

[Zigzag Idiot]

Isn’t most complaining just a form of unnecessary suffering? 
Some might say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Which is a good point. But how often is it that complaining accomplishes anything?

Whoever has a perspective to share, please do.

 

[hyruga]

Don't complain. Don't whine. 

However, being angry/letting out of anger is still better than bottling all in with shame (so just say out your shame because most of us here dun know you)

Also, sometimes complaints do work and you get a refund or something.

Edited June 6, 2021 by hyruga

[Someone here]

Here's your complaining about complaining 

[Preety_India]

Yea don't complain about anything. Just suck up and take it. Don't even feel hurt. Don't feel anything. 

Because everything negative is wrong. 

Have you ever heard about Toxic Positivity? 

That applies to this thread. 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

Not complaining doesn’t mean repression or blowing sunshine up everyone’s ass either. It’s just not giving expression to a negative emotion. Has anyone noticed how expressing negative emotions seems to drain one of chi energy or life force?

Not expressing negative emotion is good cooking!

@Preety_India I didn’t say everything negative is wrong.

Do you think you could have projected that this thread is about toxic positivity?

Lets talk it out friend,,,

[Zigzag Idiot]

42 minutes ago, hyruga said:

However, according to Map of Consciousness, being angry/letting out of anger is still better than bottling all in with shame

I completely agree and have experienced it in myself before. Many times,,, Anger Is higher in the scale of emotional tone than shame or apathy. 

[devoid]

i think if you are aware that you are complaining, that could tell you something about what needs to change (either inside yourself, in your environment or both). so it's not really unecessary, i think. if you are aware of doing it, it could help you grow. just like with almost everything else.

 

i have complained a lot in my life, and still do. but, nowadays i would see myself as an inherently positive person. and that's not because i don't complain, i sure do complain about lots of things. i complain about things like, being tired, the weather, not wanting to cook dinner, and so on. but, at the same time, i make sure to always apprechiate things. there are always good things, even if they are "small". it can be a cool leaf on the ground, your favorite pen, that you were able to talk to a friend that day, small things like that. when i experience things i make sure to apprechiate them, if i find them either positive or neutral. i can apprechiate "neutral" things because it's just so cool that anything exists at all and my mind hype up every small "insignificant" detail of the world to be totally mind-blowing. but still, i do complain, and i think that it's important to allow yourself to do that. so even if i always have something to complain about, i also always have something i apprechiate about life. and that itself makes the complaining less important. it's okay that something isn't perfect right now, because i also have so much that is just totally awesome. but i don't think it's good to try and make everything a great experience, that seems like it would just make you ignore negative feelings instead of using them to help yourself and learn.

[Zigzag Idiot]

I started this thread based on the Fourth Way practice of not expressing negative emotions. In the Fourth Way practice of Self observation not engaging in self criticism is heavily stressed. Just observe objectively,,,, hands off self criticism or judgements. This is not an easy practice. Sometimes it’s described as a gathering of snapshots.

I used to be a big complainer. I still complain at times,,,, I try to observe it though. Those snapshots inform me that at times I’m quite unconscious in these moments.

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Not complaining doesn’t mean repression or blowing sunshine up everyone’s ass either. It’s just not giving expression to a negative emotion. Has anyone noticed how expressing negative emotions seems to drain one of chi energy or life force?

Not expressing negative emotion is good cooking!

@Preety_India I didn’t say everything negative is wrong.

Do you think you could have projected that this thread is about toxic positivity?

Lets talk it out friend,,,

To be frank, yesterday when I complained like a bitch, I got a very peaceful sleep at night for the first time in a long year. All of the pent up frustration of having dealing with awful people was finally released. It was like releasing all the content from a wound and cleaning and healing that wound. 

It felt better that I finally let off steam about something that was bothering and wounding me. 

There is a problem with Western Psychology where a man complaining or being angry is looked at with disdain or simply treated as an irritable person, which only creates more suffocation and problems. 

Creating negative emotions is completely different from experiencing negative emotions. There's a subtle difference between a person who Complains for no reason other than riling up versus a person whose anger is genuine and is correlated to a genuine cogent reason causing the person to complain, the complaint itself is a form of feedback that will help improve the system, your own body complains through a row of multiple sensations like vomiting, headache, sweating, itching, fever, internal pain, it's a way your body tells you that you probably did something wrong with it, complaint itself is not wrong, it's the content of the complaint and the nature of complaining that should be considered, would we admonish a child complaining about a stranger hurting him, then why should we demonize an adult for complaining? If we're truly compassionate and Empathetic, then we need to empathize and understand the nature of complaint before we preach about negative emotions, negative emotions should only be demonized when the emotions themselves are causing the problem rather than complaint, but if there is an event creating such emotions, then it's a no longer about expressing negative emotions but giving release to the reaction to the event, which if suppressed will lead to feelings of low self esteem and continued hurting, instead releasing it gives strength and peace. 

 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Preety_India I didn’t say that complaining was wrong or hint that others should be demonized for complaining. I specifically said that key in the practice was not judging or engaging in any self criticism.

Its natural for people to justify, through imagination, their own complaining as a form of woundology. http://www.halexandria.org/dward044.htm

“We have to bless the living crap out of everyone.”- Matt Kahn ??

[Preety_India]

@Zigzag Idiot real suffering is not an imagination. 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

Four types of suffering

For whatever it’s worth,,, 

I copied this from the thread on George Gurdjieff. A legitimate swatter of hornets nests,,,,

Intentional suffering is sometimes referred to as Conscious suffering in the Fourth Way.

In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding:

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance.

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

From an article on the second Conscious Shock 

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

[universe]

Noticing how complaining makes you feel is a good start. Have you looked into Emotional Mastery?

[LastThursday]

On 06/06/2021 at 4:18 AM, Zigzag Idiot said:

Isn’t most complaining just a form of unnecessary suffering?

Yup. Not only do you suffer, but so do the people you complain to. I guess it's the all down to wanting the world to be a certain way, but the world has other plans. It's a lack of presence.

[Zigzag Idiot]

8 hours ago, universe said:

Noticing how complaining makes you feel is a good start. Have you looked into Emotional Mastery?

Purification of the emotional center as it’s referred to in the Fourth Way is the elephant in the room. This task isn’t accomplished in just a few months or even a couple of years. Some may scoff at this claim but I would hold the mirror up to reflect their derision as a pointer to how we are all prone to feed on negative emotion. As has been said by others, it’s not sex that makes the world ‘go around’ but the feeding on negativity. Look at our culture and other cultures and see how it manifests. Having grievances and keeping accounts, complaining, gossiping, displays of one-upman-ship in found in most areas of life including spiritual communities,,,, How many can say that they have seen these aspects in themselves previously or more importantly presently? Who is willing to potentially lose face this way? Who is willing to look at or even admit to a deeper level of self hatred that is often encountered by those who do very in-depth shadow work?

Emotional mastery is realizing that we have a right NOT to feel and be negative, to paraphrase Maurice Nicoll. It is to have an awakened conscience. Gurdjieff remarked once that in the world, a man who has an awakened conscience among contemporary men will often be considered as,,,, well,,,, an embarrassment.

To me, a sign of having emotional mastery is to truly wish others well. It means forgiveness or overlooking others transgressions. It means inspecting the world through a perceptual filter of Love. Am I there? No. I’ve had brief instances of it though. Also it’s how I make sense of the phrase “the kingdom of Heaven is at hand”.

[Nos7algiK]

@Zigzag IdiotI'm in agreeance to pretty much everything you are saying on the topic. Personally, I realized just how much complaining affects other people. There is some type of transferred karma that can cause negativity in another person's life we complain to. I can't say if these are meta-physical consequences or if it's a psychological concept that causes another to make mico-negative decisions eventually manifesting something more severe. But, to put it simply if I am aware that burdening others with my own issues can cause them suffering. Then I'm in the wrong for doing so and I should always make sure to uplift rather than bring down others.

Though, as social media has grew over the years this sense of entitlement that comes with complain has entered our collective. That we have the right to complain and express ourselves and because we have that right we should in turn do it. If we do not express ourselves it will bubble up inside of us and turn into something more toxic. But, I firmly believe this is a very low quality view point on our own internal struggles and only comes from the perspective of those that can't transmute their own negative emotions internally and those that have a hard time detaching for many of these concepts that have almost no relevant factors to the self. Many can't see they are the own issue even if others point it out to them, victim mentality is very strong or their own issues are petty and can easily be ignored. I don't except everyone to have emotional mastery and it's important to have a sense of understanding for those fall into their own mental traps.

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Having grievances and keeping accounts, complaining, gossiping, displays of one-upman-ship in found in most areas of life including spiritual communities

I would agree that all these are undesirable behaviours on the whole. But isn't there a space for them to be used strategically or in moderation? Sometimes getting riled and authentically complaining about an injustice can be beneficial. Maybe. Dunno.

[Preety_India]

Just now, LastThursday said:

Sometimes getting riled and authentically complaining about an injustice can be beneficial. Maybe. Dunno.

At least this part is true. 

If someone is authentically complaining then they should be heard rather than dismissed. 

 

[Applegarden8]

@Zigzag Idiot I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think the main goal is to not take your own tantrums and others tantrums seriously, because there is no reference point of you. And if you entertain the emotions related to complaining they will deepen and if you cultivate gratefulness then that will deepen. From all the other ways of looking at it, even pratically, when my sleep is disrupted night after night, I don't really complain and if I do it's not genuine. I see tremendous worthiness in my life. How much I can contribute despite everything. And what is there to complain about? You will take however many births you want, you will surely experience everything you want, again with the reference point problem, because we are not remembering the past lives e.c.t.

But even if you feel complete, your complaint is for others. Enlightened beings are pretty disagreeable if you start digging. If you just look what kind of sheninigans George Gurdjeff pulled on his disciples.

Sometimes you have to tell a criminal that he is a criminal or an idiot that he is an idiot, but yes, complaining can fall of very quickly and victim mentality is the problem #1 in our entire existence perhaps.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Applegarden8

[Loving Radiance]

You can complain with intention by feeling something in yourself and then responding to it.

Usually what is done in culture is to complain reactively by not going into in and rather projecting it outward in an attempt to get rid of it.

True complaining processes the thoughts & feelings and aligns them with you. It is feeling and then expressing thoughts & emotion that don't resonate. Complaining to somebody or a group is good, if they are capable to hold space, understand and reflect back or prompt you to inquire deeper.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Loving Radiance