Adi Da

[UnbornTao]

On 6/7/2021 at 9:06 AM, Eren Eeager said:

@Leo Gura maybe those genetic freaks enlightened masters are more prone to abuse others,maybe because they didn't suffer enough to attain their levels so developed less compassion??

I’d say that geniuses and masters have more difficult childhoods than the average, not the other way around. For example, Da Vinci.

Edited November 2, 2022 by UnbornTao

[kieranperez]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What happened to no levels of consciousness? Now all the sudden they exist?

I don’t dispute there are degrees to which we can say the mind surrenders and the self contraction that applies to the individual body mind. My hard line is not to confuse that with enlightenment itself. There’s degrees to which ones conditioning can fall away, powers of transmission and so forth can really come alive, and so forth. I have never denied that. What rejected is the claim that that in and itself is enlightenment. That is all relative and has its place on the path which may or may not by products that are all functions of mind. Ralston has never denied that nor have I.

Also, what you quoted was actually something I was saying Ralston actually said about him as Ralston actually sat with him. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by kieranperez

[kieranperez]

4 hours ago, Arzola said:

better to start your own cult.

After enlightenment, get mad puss. 

[UnbornTao]

@Preety_India Would have loved to sit down with Buddha or Jesus, though.  

@kieranperez

Edited November 2, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, kieranperez said:

I don’t dispute there are degrees to which we can say the mind surrenders and the self contraction that applies to the individual body mind. My hard line is not to confuse that with enlightenment itself. There’s degrees to which ones conditioning can fall away, powers of transmission and so forth can really come alive, and so forth. I have never denied that. What rejected is the claim that that in and itself is enlightenment.

I am not talking about the mind surrendering or any such silly thing. I am telling you there are infinite levels of consciousness beyond your enlightenment.

The reason Adi Da was so powerful was because he reached a higher level of consciousness than you or most. Not because his mind surrended more in some relative human sense. You underestimate the depth of the situtation and you take Ralston too seriously.

But you don't want to listen. Okay. Enjoy your enlightenment.

[kieranperez]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You underestimate the depth of the situtation and you take Ralston too seriously.

I don't. I'm merely citing him as one of many sources I've come across that attest to their experience of Adi Da. He certainly is a credible one. I certainly doubt much of what Peter says. His remarks for example that people can't go a little nuts from a powerful satori or even kensho and dismisses it as just the mind, even though that's technically true, I find that palatable and really out of integrity says he's even claimed going nuts after powerful enlightenment experiences. I've also heard his frivolous relationship with students that I would deem unethical, but that's something I'd rather mention over a PM. I'm certainly no "Ralstonian acolyte". 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason Adi Da was so powerful was because he reached a higher level of consciousness than you or most. Not because his mind surrended more in some relative human sense.

Again, I wouldn't say we disagree. What you refer to as consciousness, which includes all states and levels and so forth, I refer to as simply mind. On that end, I'm certainly not going to claim any sort of equivalence with one of the most powerful realizers of the 20th century. The very thought of that is laughable I must admit. I certainly would never walk around and claim enlightenment. I've never claimed. I don't like talk about what I've "experienced" as far as enlightenment goes because it just doesn't feel right speaking in that way. All the different trips I've done and states though, however healing, powerful, and everything else were not nor cannot be enlightenment. Adi Da had all that power that I would attribute as an experiential by product (whether it was correlative or causal is a debatable point philosophically but a byproduct no doubt) of his enlightenment and the depth of realization. That said, all depth and so forth is relative. I don't see that as poo pooing anything, it's just a matter of honesty. It just depends what end of the street we're talking about. From POV, enlightenment doesn't cause anything. From another POV, on the experiential aspect, you're damn right it causes or allows certain stuff to really blow open. That said, there are plenty of people that are out there that I would say have a very powerful energy that I see no closer to realization than anybody else (from a certain POV).

[Leo Gura]

Infinite Mind -- that's what you are.

How deeply you're conscious of that is variable.

If you were infinitely conscious, you could turn into a kangaroo, since consciousness is unlimited. So clearly you are nowhere near infinitely conscious. The only reason you cannot turn into a kangaroo is because you lack consciousness of yourself.

[kieranperez]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you were infinitely conscious, you could turn into a kangaroo, since consciousness is unlimited.

Transfigure into a kangaroo and then get back to me on that. 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Transfigure into a kangaroo and then get back to me on that. 

I don't claim to permanently be in a state of infinite consciousness. I only claim it exists.

[kieranperez]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't claim to permanently be in a state of infinite consciousness. I only claim it exists.

I never said you did. You are making claims though of transfiguring into a kangaroo. Such examples have been claimed in shamanism and many yogis and all of them from all those different traditions make the same damn claim again and again: that ain't enlightenment. What occult powers or siddhis one attains or can do aren't indicative of one's clarity of absolute truth (should we concede to speaking in those terms). I don't deny such powers exist. I am saying though that that's not enlightenment. 

And at the end of the day, all such endeavors are honestly just silly, should you ever really encounter such phenomenon. It's just more stuff that the mind took to be greater than it actually was. Transfiguring into a kangaroo, levitating, reading minds, bending spoons, manifesting situations or even things, being able to move things with one's mind, etc. are all just more silliness that appear as shiny new toys and possibilities for the mind. As far as I'm concerned, being able to create nukes that can literally destroy the world or create technology made in the image of man (e.g. AI, the internet, and the majority of our technology) is as much as much a siddhi as anything else. They are all accomplishments that pertain to the mind. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by kieranperez

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, kieranperez said:

What occult powers or siddhis one attains or can do aren't indicative of one's clarity of absolute truth

Actually, it is indicative because only infinite consciousness can grant total omnipotence.

If you are not omnipotent it is because you are not fully conscious of yourself. This point has nothing to do with occult powers. I am talking about Full God-Mode, which you have not accessed yet.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, kieranperez said:

I never said you did.

You asked me to turn into a kangaroo for you.

[kieranperez]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You asked me to turn into a kangaroo for you.

Yes. The only way you ACTUALLY know you can do that is if you do. If you’re going to make these claims, do some 5-MeO or whatever other means you say you can do it through and back it up.

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, it is indicative

False. Many people have gone into siddhi states that arise along the path prior to any realization any realization at all. They are accomplishments of the mind. In a similar way any creative work or great work within science or mathematics are accomplishments of the mind. There’s good reason why teachers that actually have siddhis always say again and again and again and again that they have nothing to do with enlightenment. Being able to levitate, walk on water, read minds, shapeshifting, bilocation, etc. are not indicative of enlightenment. You’re not onto anything new here. They are considered distractions for a reason because, at the end of the day, it’s just more nonsense and are of no real significance at the end of the day. Some people are more prone to certain siddhis than any others. We can broadly call it talent. Whether it’s genetics, a certain wiring of the brain to be able to go into certain concentration states, a natural tendency to have a lot of energy, or whatever seems to be a plausible case because all of that applies to the relative world. In the same way some people may be more talented at art or handyman work or fighting or some athletic endeavor. None of that though, at the end of the day, is enlightenment. 

[Windappreciator]

7 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Yes. The only way you ACTUALLY know you can do that is if you do. If you’re going to make these claims, do some 5-MeO or whatever other means you say you can do it through and back it up.

He already is a kangaroo, but he also is Leo.

When people access god mode, it mean they become aware of how they are everything and omnipotent.

Not how they can change everything with this one limited human form.

God already manifested everything according to its will, when you are aware on the psychedelic you understand that you are already doing all of this.

Creating a human called Leo, who is limited in his powers is part of gods manifested omnipotence.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Leo Gura]

21 hours ago, kieranperez said:

The only way you ACTUALLY know you can do that is if you do.

Or, if you access Infinite Consciousness, you can know it.

You actually don't need to do a thing to know it can be done.

The problem with turning into a kangaroo is, you won't be a human any more, and there will be no one to tell what you did. And even if you told them, they would never believe you nor understand.

If I told you I turned into a kangaroo last night, would you believe me? No. You would just rationalize it away by telling yourself that Leo is deluded.

[John Iverson]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Or, if you access Infinite Consciousness, you can know it.

You actually don't need to do a thing to know it can be done.

The problem with turning into a kangaroo is, you won't be a human any more, and there will be no one to tell what you did. And even if you told them, they would never believe you nor understand.

If I told you I turned into a kangaroo last night, would you believe me? No. You would just rationalize it away by telling yourself that Leo is deluded.

are you Leo? is there a time in you Awakening that you turned in to Kangaroo? 

[Leo Gura]

@John Iverson Who do you think created kangaroos?

You!

[John Iverson]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@John Iverson Who do you think created kangaroos?

You!

ah yes! when i became Absolute  Self i became now the kangaroo