5 seconds into Oxflix and chill, and he gives you this look

[BipolarGrowth]

Not a single one of us here is ready for the full love... beyond words

I love you guys. Thanks for being part of such an unimaginable journey with me. 
 

All defenses have been eradicated by the Love ❤️

 

[Preety_India]

@BipolarGrowth thank you for being so loving and kind. And thank you for being there whenever I needed. 

Sad that you weren't made a moderator. You totally deserved it. 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Preety_India

[BipolarGrowth]

@Preety_India it’s my nature. Don’t thank me for love if you won’t thank a thief for stealing your purse ? 

 

But without Leo’s sacrifice and dedication, I’d be nowhere near this. I now know bipolar disorder can be brought into complete order through full enlightenment. 

[Preety_India]

@BipolarGrowth I can feel you. Those tears are beautiful. 

Also never give up. 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Preety_India

[Tim R]

Quote

5 seconds into Oxflix and chill, and he gives you this look

@BipolarGrowth lmao dude, that's perfect???

When I read the title and saw you crying - I felt that❤ 

[kinesin]

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, recording yourself sobbing in a sushi restaurant might be more symptomatic of your bipolar than a sign of any genuine spiritual awakening?  Do you think there's a possibility that getting angry and saying "fuck you you dumb piece of shit" to those people who point that out might be a sign that you haven't actually reached the state of loving-kindness and acceptance that you think you have?

There seems to be a disturbing trend in this community where people think that recording emotionally charged videos during a spiritual crisis and showing them publicly is a sign of true spiritual awakening, almost as if to do so has become part of a ritual which makes the awakening 'real'.

[BipolarGrowth]

6 minutes ago, kinesin said:

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, recording yourself sobbing in a sushi restaurant might be more symptomatic of your bipolar than a sign of any genuine spiritual awakening?  Do you think there's a possibility that getting angry and saying "fuck you you dumb piece of shit" to those people who point that out might be a sign that you haven't actually reached the state of loving-kindness and acceptance that you think you have?

There seems to be a disturbing trend in this community where people think that recording emotionally charged videos during a spiritual crisis and showing them publicly is a sign of true spiritual awakening, almost as if to do so has become part of a ritual which makes the awakening 'real'.

My friend, why do you come in arms when a fellow seeker expresses the beauty they have been shown? 
 

I claim to have become enlightened because I saw Nirvana during nirodha samapatti. If I didn’t have that direct experience, I wouldn’t be crying so deeply or making such claims. 

[kinesin]

@BipolarGrowth  I didn't come 'in arms', I'm trying to bring you toward more grounded insight.  By my understanding, enlightenment doesn't cause behaviours which scare other people or make them worry about you.  Enlightenment is mundane, it's 'boring' even.  There's no sobbing, no peak experience, all of these are signs of the process toward enlightenment, but not enlightenment itself.  The process can be traumatic, it's often dramatic, but with enlightenment comes stability and balance.

All that can be said really is that you had a set of experiences.  You're still in the experience currently, and from this perspective you view yourself as enlightened... but 3, 5 or 10 years down the line you'll look back on this as being a part of a wider process.  You'll learn lessons from this about the practicality and sensibility of extreme emotions.  In my view, enlightenment is only possible by making such 'mistakes', because our errors direct us toward the truth.

Speaking of errors - your previous video on youtube shows that you recently got arrested.  How did that happen?

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, kinesin said:

@BipolarGrowth  I didn't come 'in arms', I'm trying to bring you toward more grounded insight.  By my understanding, enlightenment doesn't cause behaviours which scare other people or make them worry about you.  Enlightenment is mundane, it's 'boring' even.  There's no sobbing, no peak experience, all of these are signs of the process toward enlightenment, but not enlightenment itself.  The process can be traumatic, it's often dramatic, but with enlightenment comes stability and balance.

All that can be said really is that you had a set of experiences.  You're still in the experience currently, and from this perspective you view yourself as enlightened... but 3, 5 or 10 years down the line you'll look back on this as being a part of a wider process.  You'll learn lessons from this about the practicality and sensibility of extreme emotions.  In my view, enlightenment is only possible by making such 'mistakes', because our errors direct us toward the truth.

Speaking of errors - your previous video on youtube shows that you recently got arrested.  How did that happen?

The condescending tone in your initial sentence is what led me to say “come in arms.” 
 

I only claim enlightenment because the experience I had is directly discussed in Theravada Buddhism as only happening to someone on the 3rd path or higher (of 4) after stream entry. I add this to the various in-depth experiences I have with God Consciousness, Infinity, and many other facets I’ve experienced to make that designation. 
 

Nirodha samapatti is seen as the highest meditative attainment by many. Enlightenment is just a word and means nothing really. It is clear dharma that Nirodha Samapatti is where Nirvana is “experienced.” 
 

I was speeding lol. 
 

Your view of quaint, tranquil enlightenment is quite a limited way to contain the activity of one who has become death. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[kinesin]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

the experience I had is directly discussed in Theravada Buddhism as only happening to someone on the 3rd path or higher (of 4) after stream entry

Either that, or you have misunderstandings about what those sources were actually talking about, and you're mistaking the experience you had for being the same one they were talking about.

You haven't 'become death', you simply had a transient novel experience which your ego is now lending far too much significance to.

[Dazgwny]

@kinesin are u enlightened?

[kinesin]

@Dazgwny  Sure, why not.

[Dazgwny]

@kinesin ah forget it mate I thought you may have come out with a genuine answer rather than just a corny remark. Either way just leave it out, cut the crap. You can see the guy is going through a difficult period, enlightenment, road to enlightenment, awakenings, or delusion, however you want to frame it. And to be honest I know your not anyway because one who was wouldn’t be so reactive in the manner you are. I don’t know his situation, but neither do you. He’s going through something though and he’s genuine about it. So no need to pit your wits against everything he says. He’s certainly had some deep realisations either way whether you like it or not. So let him do his thing and come through it ??

[kinesin]

@Dazgwny A genuine answer as to whether I'm enlightened or not?  It doesn't make a difference whether I say yes or no.

The rest of your comment is a reiteration of things I already said earlier in the thread.  He's had an experience, and I think we can both agree that whatever that experience consisted of, he's giving it too much weight.  I'm offering a counterweight to his current thinking because, as shown in the video he uploaded where he's handcuffed to a bench in a police station, he says he's "fully enlightened".  Considering the clear signs that he's actually experiencing a mental health emergency, I think that gently attempting to reframe his current thinking as symptomatic is the healthiest response.  You can say that I haven't been friendly or warm enough with him, but he's already gotten plenty of that from others.

People tend not to respond to well to being disagreed with, so consider thinking about my input here in a slightly different angle - I'm not expressing 'my' disagreement, I'm simply a conduit manifesting disagreement which, considering the polarities inherent in all things and perspectives, has to exist.

[Dazgwny]

7 hours ago, kinesin said:

By my understanding, enlightenment doesn't cause behaviours which scare other people or make them worry about you

It does mate. That’s quite obvious. It can scare the shit out of the individual, and it can scare ‘other people’ more. Hence why they can throw you in a mental institute to get you out of the way of ‘other people’. It’s not straight forward this shit, you should know that if you’ve gotten anywhere with it. It’s mind fucking to the person who’s directly involved and it can be even more mind fucking in a different way to those ‘supposed other people’. Alls I’m saying is don’t be so quick to make your judgements and counters to what he’s saying??

[kinesin]

15 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

It’s not straight forward this shit, you should know that if you’ve gotten anywhere with it.

That isn't enlightenment, those are the experiences which help us on the path toward enlightenment.  Yes, I've had my fair share of those... those are the times when you make grand public gestures, where you cry loudly and giddily proclaim to others "I am enlightened!" only to realize much later that it was simply a stepping stone and that really, you were infact a long way from enlightenment during that peak experience.

Enlightenment is the calm after the storm, not the storm itself.

[Consilience]

18 minutes ago, kinesin said:

Enlightenment is the calm after the storm, not the storm itself.

It is neither the calm nor the storm and yet is the nature of both the calm and storm no, therefore inclusive of the calm and the storm no?

But yes let’s be clear, manic episodes are not enlightenment nor are needed for enlightenment. However, an enlightenment experience can generate a manic like response. Manic relative to what our society considers normal and relative to how the ego-mind interprets the experience based on it’s survival agenda, conditioning, etc. 

[Mafortu]

9 hours ago, kinesin said:

Enlightenment is mundane, it's 'boring' even.  There's no sobbing, no peak experience, all of these are signs of the process toward enlightenment, but not enlightenment itself. 

How interesting, Peter Ralston had an experience like this as linked here (from an interview with Leo Gura, start at min1:25).

I cant imagine myself having enlightenment and not shaking in awe and horror, so I if I ever "get it" I do hope its peaceful and quiet like that.

[kinesin]

@Mafortu A roughly comparable analogy which comes to mind is when an addict finally reaches sobriety.  What is their state during the grip of addiction?  Lack of control, desperation, inescapable cycles of suffering, ignorance.  In most cases, before they get better they have to hit rock bottom.  What does that look like?  Chaos, terror, shame, regret - big dramatic occurrences, crying relatives, screaming, police involvement... followed by a subtle collapse into introspection.  Then comes realization, the recognition that something will change, or maybe it already has, followed by resolve.  What comes after that?  Plain old unsalted, unbuttered sobriety.  Day to day existence, for the rest of your life.

[BipolarGrowth]

7 hours ago, kinesin said:

Either that, or you have misunderstandings about what those sources were actually talking about, and you're mistaking the experience you had for being the same one they were talking about.

You haven't 'become death', you simply had a transient novel experience which your ego is now lending far too much significance to.

If you’re not 100% certain you’re 3rd path or higher, just sit down man. When I talk to Frank Yang now about NS, we understand each other quite well. He’s never made one claim against my claim of attainment and has actually done much more to the opposite effect. I thought Frank was exaggerating or just wrong and deluded about the power of psychedelics. Then I attained NS, twice in a row within the span of two minutes... 

 

I’m probably not an Arahant yet by the TB definition.