Leo - What are your thoughts/experience with nirodha samapatti/full cessation?

[BipolarGrowth]

It’s otherwise called the cessation of feeling and perception for anyone not up to speed with the jargon. It’s basically a “non-experience” where the power switch for consciousness is turned completely off to then resume as if your life were a movie scene and someone had just edited half a second (or longer for more experienced people) out of your life. There is no “gap” experienced beyond the experience surrounding the cessation on both sides if we’re to put this in linear time. It is similar to deep sleep, but picture deep sleep which lasts half a second but can produce a really strong afterglow which puts any psychedelic afterglow I’ve experienced to shame when looking specifically at feelings of equanimity, joy in solitude, overall well-being, and generally just being on cloud 9 that is reported to last more than 24 hours in some cases. 
 

I understand full well that a “non-experience” is imagination in your teachings which I generally agree with. This is framed in time as well, so yeah, as a memory right now, it’s not quite the same either. Regardless, experiencing consciousness power down and reboot in the context of a full waking state has huge potential for insight and exploration in the God-Realization path in my opinion. I will hands down place this experience above any previous awakening, mystical experience, or life event — God Consciousness, Infinite Freedom, and many other extremely radical or subjectively potent events were not this significant. The seconds before and after the cessations were more intense, positive, and truthfully unbelievable than any other state I’ve ever tasted. The fruit on this tree appears to be rather ripe for the existential picking. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[The0Self]

Self Thing Time

These 3 lean on each other. Relax the subtle attachment/clinging to one of their realities, and a cessation of all 3 can happen.

There are sort of different types of cessation’s. One kind where it’s like you jump forward in time with no space in between, and another where time seems to disappear and “now” swallows up everything including even the present moment, so there’s just everything (not a thing) with no one aware of it. In both cases self, thing, and time, all 3, collapse.

Edited June 1, 2021 by The0Self

[BipolarGrowth]

Still curious

[The0Self]

Pretty sure he indicated he hasn’t had the experience, in several vids.

Edited June 2, 2021 by The0Self

[Flyboy]

Sounds like you had one, congrats.  Stream Entry

How did you get there, if I may ask?

[RMQualtrough]

If consciousness can literally cease that could be seen as bothersome to the ideology. What then is the relative difference between Atheist proposed death and Idealist death?

It seems that there isn't one. Only a difference proposed on the Absolute scale, and we can see that, yes, consciousness continues when yours does not, like in the surgeons operating on you when you're knocked out.

In the most egotistical of terms, what does it matter if consciousness continues if I do not know about it?

But we also do not know if we ever do experience cessation of consciousness or of memory...

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

If consciousness can literally cease that could be seen as bothersome to the ideology. What then is the relative difference between Atheist proposed death and Idealist death?

It seems that there isn't one. Only a difference proposed on the Absolute scale, and we can see that, yes, consciousness continues when yours does not, like in the surgeons operating on you when you're knocked out.

In the most egotistical of terms, what does it matter if consciousness continues if I do not know about it?

But we also do not know if we ever do experience cessation of consciousness or of memory...

The atheists view of death is 100% correct. Except they completely misunderstand the implications. If death is nonexistence — no time, space, not even darkness, not even emptiness — all of reality and all beings rest upon a Nirvana which is true perfection. It is the absence. “Nature abhors a vacuum.” Well, imagine God with infinite power & eternal existence is the “substance” trying to fill a “space” that can’t even exist in theory. That’s what we live in. Nothing can ever die because nothing has ever exclusively been alive. Every being you talk to, every plant, every rock, imagined deity or nightmarish fear, is simultaneously death and life. The source of all phenomena is that which cannot be. That which is not. It’s quite strange. It is the mind-fuck of mind-fucks. Both existence and nonexistence exist within you. Nonexistence is within everything as the true ground. The true ground is no gravity, no time, no perception, no self, no consciousness, no soul, no god. With such an impossible and imperceivable Reality and Highest Nirvana, how could you ever feel the pain of your fall?! That’s the beauty of the groundless ground. 

[BipolarGrowth]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Sounds like you had one, congrats.  Stream Entry

How did you get there, if I may ask?

It’s a wild story. I don’t have the energy to write everything out. All I can say is that, you’re always practicing. Everything is your teacher. You can watch some of my latest videos if you want a rough idea. 
 

 

[BipolarGrowth]

20 hours ago, The0Self said:

Self Thing Time

These 3 lean on each other. Relax the subtle attachment/clinging to one of their realities, and a cessation of all 3 can happen.

There are sort of different types of cessation’s. One kind where it’s like you jump forward in time with no space in between, and another where time seems to disappear and “now” swallows up everything including even the present moment, so there’s just everything (not a thing) with no one aware of it. In both cases self, thing, and time, all 3, collapse.

Yeah this is how I feel now. It’s like I blew myself out with such a strong No-Self on that live awakening a couple weeks ago or w/e. Since then, my ego and “Self” are in so much harmony because I know the unreality of any substance or truth beyond the appearances. People act like they understand this shit all the time, but without some quite deep awakenings along a lot of different lines and angles and states of viewing all this, it’s not likely you really can appreciate the Truth in the wisdom you’re still mostly parroting out of a thin layer of remaining faith and also skepticism of the most radical teachings. 
 

You can bust the ground out from under yourSelf though too. That’s what full, waking state and vibrant cessation is. I’d wager to say my NS cessations were probably more impactful than most because it was like God Consciousness & beyond awakening for 30 mins - 1 hr > NS cessation > God Consciousness awakening for two minutes > NS cessation > God Consciousness tapers down rather quickly and is replaced by the most serene peace imaginable. If all deities and such powerful beings existed in a single physical marketplace, I’d become the richest of them all if I could manage to bottle up the post NS & God-Realization multiple existential orgasms into a consumable product. It’s like smoking a cigarette after sex, but you didn’t have a single flimsy human physical orgasm. You became both the Dao and God and had sex with these different realities and immutable energies and had that kind of an Orgasm. Then you had that kind of satisfied equanimity and bliss to a corresponding degree. All of Existence and Nonexistence rest in the true primary and eternal reality which can be spoken of and perceived that is your awareness. 
 

It’s all You baby. 

[RMQualtrough]

51 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

The atheists view of death is 100% correct. Except they completely misunderstand the implications. If death is nonexistence — no time, space, not even darkness, not even emptiness — all of reality and all beings rest upon a Nirvana which is true perfection. It is the absence. “Nature abhors a vacuum.” Well, imagine God with infinite power & eternal existence is the “substance” trying to fill a “space” that can’t even exist in theory. That’s what we live in. Nothing can ever die because nothing has ever exclusively been alive. Every being you talk to, every plant, every rock, imagined deity or nightmarish fear, is simultaneously death and life. The source of all phenomena is that which cannot be. That which is not. It’s quite strange. It is the mind-fuck of mind-fucks. Both existence and nonexistence exist within you. Nonexistence is within everything as the true ground. The true ground is no gravity, no time, no perception, no self, no consciousness, no soul, no god. With such an impossible and imperceivable Reality and Highest Nirvana, how could you ever feel the pain of your fall?! That’s the beauty of the groundless ground. 

Do you have a really simplified and dumbed down version of this you can perhaps link to? I am having difficulty understanding the difference in implication.

I have my own thoughts on the topic but they're not fully formed... I do think there will be cessation, but what that means or what actually happens I am unclear on... I am all things at once, I continue, but what is that like to die while I continues? I've had ego death but it included perceptions still even if just a white void.

[BipolarGrowth]

31 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Do you have a really simplified and dumbed down version of this you can perhaps link to? I am having difficulty understanding the difference in implication.

I have my own thoughts on the topic but they're not fully formed... I do think there will be cessation, but what that means or what actually happens I am unclear on... I am all things at once, I continue, but what is that like to die while I continues? I've had ego death but it included perceptions still even if just a white void.

Okay, if atheists are right, you are absolutely nothing at your core. Once you die. There’s nothing. Not even awareness of a void. This is what Buddhists believe in many cases too. That there is no soul. Nothing continues, at least for a fully enlightened person. They do not return. They also often fundamentally believe that something came from nothing if you press them with direct questioning for long enough. Atheists and Buddhists worship the same nonexistence as the ultimate reality. They both kind of unwittingly forget that nonexistence then is exactly what produced the temporary world we’re experiencing right now. Big Bang, w/e. The show always stops dead at some point with cosmological questions. It either always exists or something came from nothing. Either way, consciousness, the Light, will return. In Truth, the Light cannot even stop existing. That would make it something other than Light.
 

If the place with no space and time created a place with space and time, why worry about dying and going to a place with no space and time? Why worry of nonexistence? You are existence by nature, so it may never touch you. And you may never touch it. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[RMQualtrough]

18 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Okay, if atheists are right, you are absolutely nothing at your core. Once you die. There’s nothing. Not even awareness of a void. This is what Buddhists believe in many cases too. That there is no soul. Nothing continues, at least for a fully enlightened person. They do not return. They also often fundamentally believe that something came from nothing if you press them with direct questioning for long enough. Atheists and Buddhists worship the same nonexistence as the ultimate reality. They both kind of unwittingly forget that nonexistence then is exactly what produced the temporary world we’re experiencing right now. Big Bang, w/e. The show always stops dead at some point with cosmological questions. It either always exists or something came from nothing. Either way, consciousness, the Light, will return. In Truth, the Light cannot even stop existing. That would make it something other than Light.
 

If the place with no space and time created a place with space and time, why worry about dying and going to a place with no space and time? Why worry of nonexistence? You are existence by nature, so it may never touch you. And you may never touch it. 

Tbh I still don't totally get what this implies. There is something which continues (true Self), but how is that from the perspective of the mortal self?

It is 100% totally identical to typical Atheism right?

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

It’s a wild story. I don’t have the energy to write everything out. All I can say is that, you’re always practicing. Everything is your teacher. You can watch some of my latest videos if you want a rough idea. 
 

 

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Path or maps of it, so forgive me if you already know this... but there is MUCH more beyond Stream Entry, so don't rest on it, even if it feels amazing (and it is an awesome accomplishment).  But many have said it is less than 1% of the full thing, with huge shifts in your everyday experience ahead of you.

Also, after your first cessation you should be capable of "cycling", or going through a full spiritual high/low cycle (including dark night) in a much shorter period of time (like sometimes less than an hour), ending in repeat cessations.  This "review" phase can continue for some time, but will eventually begin another macro cycle which will put you through the full process again.  Completing that will land you the next "Path", and another major shift.  Really recommend reading MCTB if you haven't already.

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Path or maps of it, so forgive me if you already know this... but there is MUCH more beyond Stream Entry, so don't rest on it, even if it feels amazing (and it is an awesome accomplishment).  But many have said it is less than 1% of the full thing, with huge shifts in your everyday experience ahead of you.

Also, after your first cessation you should be capable of "cycling", or going through a full spiritual high/low cycle (including dark night) in a much shorter period of time (like sometimes less than an hour), ending in repeat cessations.  This "review" phase can continue for some time, but will eventually begin another macro cycle which will put you through the full process again.  Completing that will land you the next "Path", and another major shift.  Really recommend reading MCTB if you haven't already.

I’ve been going through MCTB a lot since I started digging deeper into the experience. I’ve certainly been cycling a lot as you say. 

By your definition, I completed a complete phase in 1-2 minutes before having my second cessation. I think the immediate inescapable reality of the cessation forced me into a state where I was just naturally that close to the door again that I’d go through. I had my first experiences of dark night afterwards a couple days ago. I hadn’t had any thoughts or experiences such as these in quite some time. After seeing these with essentially no resistance and essentially passing the test, I’ve been in a long equanimity. There have been several times that my cessations came to memory and my whole body just becomes covered in goosebumps. I usually start to feel closer to cessation actually recurring at these times. It’s like my new Bhakti focus has gone from any other conceivable notions of God, Truth, or Ultimate Reality to the Nirvana tasted in the cessation. 
 

Nirvana is when you become God and turn off your own dreaming process entirely. You don’t leave your own dream. No. You take all of reality with you just as Leo teaches. You turn off all dreams. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[RMQualtrough]

22 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I’ve been going through MCTB a lot since I started digging deeper into the experience. I’ve certainly been cycling a lot as you say. 

By your definition, I completed a complete phase in 1-2 minutes before having my second cessation. I think the immediate inescapable reality of the cessation forced me into a state where I was just naturally that close to the door again that I’d go through. I had my first experiences of dark night afterwards a couple days ago. I hadn’t had any thoughts or experiences such as these in quite some time. After seeing these with essentially no resistance and essentially passing the test, I’ve been in a long equanimity. There have been several times that my cessations came to memory and my whole body just becomes covered in goosebumps. I usually start to feel closer to cessation actually recurring at these times. It’s like my new Bhakti focus has gone from any other conceivable notions of God, Truth, or Ultimate Reality to the Nirvana tasted in the cessation. 
 

Nirvana is when you become God and turn off your own dreaming process entirely. You don’t leave your own dream. No. You take all of reality with you just as Leo teaches. You turn off all dreams. 

This is the most complicated thing I have heard for me personally. What is it like to become God? Not just on a psychedelic trip but the full way there... Leo says he almost did that.

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

This is the most complicated thing I have heard for me personally. What is it like to become God? Not just on a psychedelic trip but the full way there... Leo says he almost did that.

I've done it. There is no such thing as a psychedelic drug, silly... See?

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, The0Self said:

I've done it. There is no such thing as a psychedelic drug, silly... See?

The full way there OP is talking about, cessation.

On DMT more than once I appear to have blacked out. Did I actually have no experience though, or just no memory? I never thought I lost consciousness just thought I must've had a wild trip and just didn't form memory.

In cessation you have no memory of that part either. OP says you become God totally. No awareness of even void. What is that like? Is it like anything? Is there an experience of it but because we aren't our body at all anymore no memory is crafted in the brain?

Edited June 3, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Adamq8]

To me this just feel like you get lost in semantics and word games with cessation, it is still a state which can be achieved by spiritual practices which to me just clarifys that a cessation state exists as a possibility which means that it is not non existence.

Is deep dreamless sleep non existence?

If you are worried about cessation of awareness when the body dies it is still a materialistic notion of death and that the brain creates conciousness. 

Also, to make something out of nothing and also make it ordered requires infinite intelligence imo, so either way the groundless ground is infinite intelligence.

Existence is, and you are existence, existence does not come and go, existence can only produce existence from within it, it means that if you exist now it is not a illogical conclusion to say that you have always existed since you are existence or are a part of existence like all plants animals stars and so forth. 

If existence came from non existence then it just shows that existence will exist again, or If existence has always been then you have always been. 

 

[RMQualtrough]

@Adamq8 If awareness does not ever end but relatively death is an infinite deep dreamless sleep, is there actually a discernible difference?

What happens upon death? God/I continues (we DO know consciousness existed before us and will after) but selfishly speaking, so what?

There is not even reabsorption into Source we are just dropped like old toys? Hm.

[Adamq8]

@RMQualtrough True Self is what you are and the universe is experimental, it is still a universe made up of different experiences, experience does not end but the ego certainly does.

Experience does not end since it is all that there is, but you as an ego of memorys and thoughts does not continue but that does not mean that experience ends.

In my case iam more curious and a little bit nervous about what comes next.

If the case is that the universe is truly mental as you can recognize, then existence is experience, and if existence always is then experience always is.

So a lack of memory is not a proof for non existence.

Just like a psychedelic experience causes ego death and subjects under a brain scan show reduced brain activity when experience is richer, thats more likely the case that when we die the possibilitys of vastly different experiences opens up since the limited ego and body mind is not there to limit experience down to 5 senses.