Against Solipsism...

[bernardand]

If it is a "subconscious mind" doing those things then you accept there is another mind running which you conscious mind isn't directly controlling or aware of. You just believe that you own it. If another mind can exist then why not many? Just because of apparent physical distance? If only mind exists there is no distance because there is no space. https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/66843-against-solipsism/

[ivankiss]

Against thought... 

[BipolarGrowth]

7 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

The subconscious is a conscious mind that the regular self can't access directly.

The fact there are multiple conscious minds in their own mind proves that it's possible for there to be an inaccessible conscious process.

Our selves to them are inaccessible conscious processes (they are not consciously controlling our words) just like what they call their subconscious.

No space means the physical distance between our selves and their mind is 0 and equal to the distance between their conscious and subconscious (also 0).

Dream characters have autonomy from the conscious dreamer unless the dreamer becomes lucid. The sub is acting autonomously and it is conscious and has knowledge. So do others. So the others have a conscious process and autonomy.

This is the distinction between solipsism and nonduality because both propose one mind. Solipsists believe their own conscious relative self-mind is all that exists but because of the subconscious it evidently isn't.

If you accept the subconscious exists you have to accept "other" minds.

This is quite baseless epistemically speaking. You aren’t going to solve the solipsism question... It’s impossible to fully verify either way beyond all doubt that there is consciousness which you are not experiencing right now or that there isn’t other consciousness. 

[RMQualtrough]

23 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This is quite baseless epistemically speaking. You aren’t going to solve the solipsism question... It’s impossible to fully verify either way beyond all doubt that there is consciousness which you are not experiencing right now or that there isn’t other consciousness. 

If there isn't any other conscious process, what is speaking the dialogue the characters in your dreams say when you talk to them? What is crafting the landscapes?

[BipolarGrowth]

10 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

If there isn't any other conscious process, what is speaking the dialogue the characters in your dreams say when you talk to them? What is crafting the landscapes?

You as God. This is the idea at least. If you had to have conscious control of everything you created at all times, you’d be the weak sauce of all deities. 
 

Do you beat your heart or release white blood cells or is there a separate consciousness running all of these things? 

Edited June 1, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[RMQualtrough]

10 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You as God. This is the idea at least. If you had to have conscious control of everything you created at all times, you’d be the weak sauce of all deities. 
 

Do you beat your heart or release white blood cells or is there a separate consciousness running all of these things? 

Right but it's not something you are conscious of or controlling.

So there is at least one other conscious process you are not actively controlling. In dreams these other processes are able to speak full fluent sensical sentences, and are conforming to whichever situation just like another person in waking life.

So what is another mind but another conscious process? Who or what is putting the lines in their mouths and controlling them?

Even with Solipsism, you are accepting there are multiple conscious processes already when you accept there is a subconscious which speaks as characters in dreams.

If only your mind exists, there is no space and so no separation between your conscious and subconscious, or between your waking conscious mind and another person's mind.

Why is another person's mind less valid or real than the inaccessible parts of your own?

Edited June 1, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[BipolarGrowth]

38 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Right but it's not something you are conscious of or controlling.

So there is at least one other conscious process you are not actively controlling. In dreams these other processes are able to speak full fluent sensical sentences, and are conforming to whichever situation just like another person in waking life.

So what is another mind but another conscious process? Who or what is putting the lines in their mouths and controlling them?

Even with Solipsism, you are accepting there are multiple conscious processes already when you accept there is a subconscious which speaks as characters in dreams.

If only your mind exists, there is no space and so no separation between your conscious and subconscious, or between your waking conscious mind and another person's mind.

Why is another person's mind less valid or real than the inaccessible parts of your own?

There is no such thing as a conscious process at the deepest levels of this. You’re letting the continuity bias of the waking state/dreams give you a human body and feeling of a center of experience. 
 

Your interpretations label things as “conscious,” a “process,” etc. At the end of the day, even consciousness as a label must fall. This should typically be done once you have some true and deep no-mind and No-Self awakenings. You can literally run on autopilot without conscious control. Why would others require it? There’s no self here. Why would there be other selves? 
 

Now this is precisely where Leo makes his leap to solipsism based on having no direct conscious experience of something outside his consciousness. Leo is basically saying, or should be saying, that the mechanics of consciousness do not all for “two consciousnesses” to be experienced at once in one person’s consciousness — it’s a tautology. As soon as you become aware of an “other” consciousness, it has precisely been assimilated into your completely nondual and boundary-less existence at that very moment. The fact that nonduality is real — if you take this as a given, it’s up to you on that — means that anything to ever come into your consciousness is You. 
 

This is a problem of verification being shielded from possibility due to definitions and tautology of consciousness always being one “field.” 

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This is quite baseless epistemically speaking. You aren’t going to solve the solipsism question... It’s impossible to fully verify either way beyond all doubt that there is consciousness which you are not experiencing right now or that there isn’t other consciousness. 

This is the quote originally. Solipsism isn't considered to be the same as Idealism. You and Leo are Idealists. It is the same as Solipsism IMO but it's not what people mean when they talk about that...

You are putting us in (as) God's mind. Solipsists think their limited mind they call the self is all there is because you can't know others aren't robots or w.e. that's what people mean.

That is illogical on the grounds shown.

Edited June 1, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[The0Self]

You can’t know others are conscious, because you can’t know anything, including whether you are conscious, or whether there is a you in the first place. When it’s recognized there’s no you, it is obvious there aren’t others. But no one knows that. It’s very different from solipsism or even idealism. It’s just plain unknowing.

In other words, the moment where you get to knowingly say “there is no one” never comes. It just doesn’t...

It just becomes obvious that all there is, is unfathomable perfection. ?? 

Edited June 1, 2021 by The0Self

[RMQualtrough]

14 minutes ago, The0Self said:

You can’t know others are conscious, because you can’t know anything, including whether you are conscious, or whether there is a you in the first place. When it’s recognized there’s no you, it is obvious there aren’t others. But no one knows that. It’s very different from solipsism or even idealism. It’s just plain unknowing.

In other words, the moment where you get to knowingly say “there is no one” never comes. It just doesn’t...

It just becomes obvious that all there is, is unfathomable perfection. ?? 

You know consciousness exists. You know whatever else is happening right now exists at least by mirage.

When you talk to a person and they talk back, a Solipsist thinks those people are robots and only what they call self is conscious. Exactly like a dream. So then what is putting the words in the robot people's mouths or dream people's mouths?

Evidently it is a conscious process of some sort but you do not have access to it. So your conscious self is not controlling it. So then who or what is?

If you say subconscious then there is right away another "mind" you can't access. That is a problem for Solipsism. What people mean by it, it can't be accurate on that basis. They have to accept there is some aware process they are not aware of.

Edited June 1, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[The0Self]

Just now, RMQualtrough said:

You know consciousness exists. You know whatever else is happening right now exists at least by mirage.

When you talk to a person and they talk back, a Solipsist thinks those people are robots and only what they call self is conscious. Exactly like a dream. So then what is putting the words in the robot people's mouths or dream people's mouths?

Evidently it is a conscious process of some sort but you do not have access to it. So your conscious self is not controlling it. So then who or what is?

If you say subconscious then there is right away another "mind" you can't access. That is a problem for Solipsism. What people mean by it, it can't be accurate on that basis. They have to accept there is some aware process they are not in control of.

I agree with all of that, except for the first sentence. There is no one here nor anywhere who knows consciousness exists. That would be an illusion. It is obvious here that no-thing is appearing to happen — if you want to call that consciousness, then fine, but still nobody knows that it is.

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

You know consciousness exists. You know whatever else is happening right now exists at least by mirage.

When you talk to a person and they talk back, a Solipsist thinks those people are robots and only what they call self is conscious. Exactly like a dream. So then what is putting the words in the robot people's mouths or dream people's mouths?

Evidently it is a conscious process of some sort but you do not have access to it. So your conscious self is not controlling it. So then who or what is?

If you say subconscious then there is right away another "mind" you can't access. That is a problem for Solipsism. What people mean by it, it can't be accurate on that basis. They have to accept there is some aware process they are not aware of.

Are you sure you’re not a robot? Trust me, the ego runs itself. 

[RMQualtrough]

@BipolarGrowth I do not have free will, that makes me a robot. I think most robots are aware, I can prove this.

But aside from that, then I am considering it like this... A human mind has at least two conscious processes, what we call conscious and subconscious, so we know there can be multiplicity inside one mind (our human one). Take a supermind, the All, God... We are all subconscious minds in God's mind. Hm. Is that a good hypothesis?

[BipolarGrowth]

15 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

@BipolarGrowth I do not have free will, that makes me a robot. I think most robots are aware, I can prove this.

But aside from that, then I am considering it like this... A human mind has at least two conscious processes, what we call conscious and subconscious, so we know there can be multiplicity inside one mind (our human one). Take a supermind, the All, God... We are all subconscious minds in God's mind. Hm. Is that a good hypothesis?

I mean as a hypothesis it’s plausible under normal philosophies, but I personally don’t have confidence in it myself. I used to love ideas of the higher self and such things connecting us all to Brahmin, etc. but I realized that whole time I was just believing in a model I was given just because it sounded plausible really. 
 

Cut down belief and concepts to the degree in which there is no such idea as solipsism during your consciousness work. That’s way more important than spending time trying to figure solipsism out. If you awaken deep enough, maybe you really can find a definitive answer. 

[Tim R]

No self, no other - and no "conscious entities", in other words, no one with a separate consciousness (which some of you apparently like to call "mind" like Rupert Spira did in one of his videos). There is no "your" experience and "my" experience. There are no two experiences, neither of the same nor of anything different. 

 

You are all like fingers on the same hand. Got that? 

 

"I'm the only finger around and only I am real, only my consciousness is what exists", says middle finger.

"Fuck you man, solipsism ain't real and we are all fingers on our own!!" shouts thumb.

While the index and ring fingers watched the two of them in complete confusion, little finger stood next to them all and had a great time. Because little finger had sat his ass down, done the work and realized who he truly was - and at the same time who everyone else was! 

Be like little finger. 

[lmfao]

8 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

^ Look at this, looool.

Anyway, Solipsism is not logical I am proposing now, because the person thinks only their direct conscious process exists. If that is the case then who or what causes the dialogue in the other characters in your dreams? Who or what creates the landscapes? Your conscious mind that you're then seemingly in control of is not consciously causing these things so then WHAT IS?

If it is a "subconscious mind" doing those things then you accept there is another mind running which you conscious mind isn't directly controlling or aware of. You just believe that you own it. If another mind can exist then why not many? Just because of apparent physical distance? If only mind exists there is no distance because there is no space.

Yeah these are some very good questions to be asking. Best of luck with inquiry my good sir

Edited June 1, 2021 by lmfao