Spiral Dynamics Principles Should Be Applied To Current World Order

[Mesopotamian]

Today's state system is a stage-orange if we measure it according to SP principles, it is based on economy, and while I got the impression that Leo thinks that going stage-yellow is the way to go, I see that many of the countries should be transformed into stage-orange, and then green. And there should be much bigger efforts to push towards achieving this purpose.

Iran's acquisition of nuclear power is no difference than Hitler's acquisition of same, and I believe this should be prevented at all cost, sooner is better than later. Iran is a stage-blue, and people who are in charge of weapons there are stage-red war lords who seek world domination.

No stage-blue or red nation should have nuclear capabilities. I can only imagine the disasters that Biden's administration will facilitate in few years from now, there will be much wars and genocides in the Middle East unless they continue the pressure on Iran and work towards making their nuclear dream a thing from the past.

Those people are simply incapable of enjoying stage-orange mindset, the kind of mindset which grant them the capabilities to put safety first and to handle the nuclear technologies and bio technology with care.

Today, media and US intelligence are talking about how the Corona virus research was done in (level-two security) within Wuhan lab of virology, which is the same level as when  you sanitize your groceries when you bring them home, wearing a glove and a face shield.

[Eternal Unity]

Very interesting. Some food for thought. Thanks!

Edited May 31, 2021 by Eternal Unity
Capital Letter

[DieFree]

Spiral Dynamics definitely does need to be applied more often to world problems. Our world is becoming so complex and interconnected, yet we are not quick enough in adopting new conceptual models to understand it. 

My family comes from a "failed state" trying to resurrect itself that has tons of UN/"international community" (IC) types running around saying they are there to "help."

The IC is a mix of stage blue (military), orange and stage green (journalists, analysts, special envoys etc) people. The stage green types are by far the most obnoxious and unintentionally destructive to the state building process.

State building, especially in stage purple/red societies, requires some element of strategic violence and coercion to eliminate rivals and consolidate power (see Charles Tilley). The stage green are in total denial about this.  They have this magical thinking that a bunch of warlords in stage red will "negotiate" their differences, perfectly abide by a bunch of legalisms written in a constitution, and "hold elections." I'm not against negotiation, elections or following written laws - but this takes time to develop in a society. A stage red society does not respect some egghead talking in legalisms, it respects someone who can exercise power and dominate rivals so that's why one side needs to win. The problem in this situation is that all the factions are basically tied, so none has any incentive to negotiate. 

Recently one of the presidents had the upper-hand and was successfully consolidating power, but the stage green people from the IC staged an intervention and weakened his hand. Consolidating power is a big no non for them; constant "reconciliation" conferences and election-talks facilitated by NGOs, that's what they want (this has been going on for 30 years, 0 progress), and if they don't get it, foreign aid gets yanked, and nasty coverage in the media will follow. Now it's back to gridlock (same pattern happened in the 1990s). Same story is happening all over the place in other countries. Green thinks it's helping and being humanitarian and morally advanced, but in reality it is perpetuating state collapse and causing misery for the population stuck in that. Very frustrating. 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by DieFree

[Mesopotamian]

@DieFree

That's absolutely right and true. So sad.

[Windappreciator]

@Mesopotamian  In a way Spiral dynamics is already applied to the current world. 

3 hours ago, DieFree said:

Spiral Dynamics definitely does need to be applied more often to world problems. Our world is becoming so complex and interconnected, yet we are not quick enough in adopting new conceptual models to understand it. 

My family comes from a "failed state" trying to resurrect itself that has tons of UN/"international community" (IC) types running around saying they are there to "help."

The IC is a mix of stage blue (military), orange and stage green (journalists, analysts, special envoys etc) people. The stage green types are by far the most obnoxious and unintentionally destructive to the state building process.

State building, especially in stage purple/red societies, requires some element of strategic violence and coercion to eliminate rivals and consolidate power (see Charles Tilley). The stage green are in total denial about this.  They have this magical thinking that a bunch of warlords in stage red will "negotiate" their differences, perfectly abide by a bunch of legalisms written in a constitution, and "hold elections." I'm not against negotiation, elections or following written laws - but this takes time to develop in a society. A stage red society does not respect some egghead talking in legalisms, it respects someone who can exercise power and dominate rivals so that's why one side needs to win. The problem in this situation is that all the factions are basically tied, so none has any incentive to negotiate. 

Recently one of the presidents had the upper-hand and was successfully consolidating power, but the stage green people from the IC staged an intervention and weakened his hand. Consolidating power is a big no non for them; constant "reconciliation" conferences and election-talks facilitated by NGOs, that's what they want (this has been going on for 30 years, 0 progress), and if they don't get it, foreign aid gets yanked, and nasty coverage in the media will follow. Now it's back to gridlock (same pattern happened in the 1990s). Same story is happening all over the place in other countries. Green thinks it's helping and being humanitarian and morally advanced, but in reality it is perpetuating state collapse and causing misery for the population stuck in that. Very frustrating. 

 

 

To keep stage red at bay you would need to do the same stage blue does and that is using violence upon a legal code to imprison or kill stage reds and present that to the public, do you have the guts to execute such an order?

Edited June 1, 2021 by Windappreciator

[DieFree]

8 hours ago, Windappreciator said:

@Mesopotamian  In a way Spiral dynamics is already applied to the current world. 

To keep stage red at bay you would need to do the same stage blue does and that is using violence upon a legal code to imprison or kill stage reds and present that to the public, do you have the guts to execute such an order?

Stage blue actually did do exactly that back around 2006, and established the most effective legal authority and overran nearly all of the warlords. Women were banned from working outside, musicians had to hide their musical instruments in closets, and activities as mundane as going to an outdoor cinema suddenly became a no no, but for the first time the predatory red couldn't shake down people at checkpoints that they arbitrarily stood up everywhere or kill you for the sport of it. Stage blue theocratic belief also was more prestigious and powerful than stage purple tribalism and allowed politics to function at a level higher than clan. But during the war on terror, Islam-based stage blue was very threatening so a foreign power came and destroyed the authority of the stage blue using funding from the U.S and so the politics reverted back to feuding stage red warlords. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by DieFree

[Mesopotamian]

On 6/1/2021 at 10:45 AM, Windappreciator said:

@Mesopotamian  In a way Spiral dynamics is already applied to the current world. 

To keep stage red at bay you would need to do the same stage blue does and that is using violence upon a legal code to imprison or kill stage reds and present that to the public, do you have the guts to execute such an order?

I think yes, I would do that, somebody has to do it, and it is a responsibility to take action twoards keeping stage-red people at bay. I do preach in my sponsored FB posts against Iranian-backed militias in Iraq, so far things are going good and they are loosing their support.

[Mesopotamian]

17 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

but if the U.S and Great Britain never overthrew Mohammed Mossadegh, than the Iranian revolution that put the current Government in charge would have never happened.

I think that you shouldn't pick a point in history and blame it for the failures that follows.

[Shin]

Don't you think that we need a strong stage yellow in states parties before that can happen ?

You need to be able to see how things works systemically before being able to apply intentionally any lessons of SD on a large scale imo.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Shin

[Mesopotamian]

5 hours ago, Shin said:

Don't you think that we need a strong stage yellow in states parties before that can happen ?

You need to be able to see how things works systemically before being able to apply any lessons of SD on a large imo.

NO I don't think so.

There are places like Iraq, where the stage-blue is so strict that you don't have the necessary freedom to progress to stage-orange on your own even if you want to.

I live in Iraq, no family, meaning no chance for me to open a business, I live in a hotel, I have a roof on me, but I cannot open a business, cuz there's no family, and when you don't have one, then you miss a special residince card, and the latter is requiered in each and everything you want to do, example, you can't open a bank account without it.