What's up with this whole 'daddy' thing?

[Preety_India]

@ivankiss yes definitely it's an issue of moral standards, ethics, integrity and sexual morality and some people don't like to toy with their moral principles. 

 

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Emerald Something along those lines crossed my mind, too. And I guess, yeah, in that context it's cool. I just would not prefer it.

But let's be honest. That's not how the majority of people are going about it. It's not healthy like that. You are way too conscious compared to the majority.

The mainstream dating scene is kinda twisted.  That's the truth.

I think the majority of people are not  conscious that procreation drives are the reason why they respond so much to the term daddy.

The word does have a lot of taboo to it but also a lot of libidinal charge. And I think it is because saying that word triggers some deeper procreation instinct.

But most people are only partially aware of what’s happening in their body during sex. And they aren’t so much in touch with (or perhaps they are even uncomfortable with) the erotic drive to create new life.

So, when a woman calls a man daddy, it’s going to trigger that deeper procreation instinct in him and her and create more sexual charge. But it’s also a taboo so it will create other more difficult emotions that bring up a resistance. And this allows an internal drama to play out externally in sexual ritual.

So, saying the word ‘daddy’ triggers a mixture of the procreation instinct cresting above the surface of consciousness... followed by the shame associated with sex and the desire to sanitize parenthood.

So, it pushes lots of psycho-sexual buttons for people because of the clash between the procreation instinct and the puritanical notion of sex as dirty/bad/naughty... and the resulting desire to strip the idea of motherhood and fatherhood of its sexual origin, and hence its dirtiness from the puritanical point of view.

This is why it’s so common also to see a lot of “Shame on you” messages in sexual content and within many people’s kinks. It hits that button because of the inner clash between instinct and Puritanism.

[Harlen Kelly]

@ivankiss How is it damaging? 

[Etherial Cat]

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And if you look at (for example) some people who speak Spanish might call their partner Mami or Papi as a term of endearment expressing sexual attraction. And that comes from the association between parenthood and sex.

I've always thought this was weird as fuck. When I was 14, I dated a Latino and he'd keep on calling me Mami.

The thing is, in french, "mamie" means grandma (and it's pronounced exactly the same). And "papi" means grandpa.  

That's not very sexy. 

@ivankiss @Emerald

There seem to be really an incestuous thing going on. And it's not so far fetched due to the fact that well, kids go through an oedipus phase.

I've been fascinated with collective sexual leitmotiv in society, and I remember reading once that some eastern european country I can't remember had as their number 1 gulty porn pleasure "mom and son" porn.

Also, the story is a bit gross, but one of my ex-coworker got very sick one day. He ended up at the hospital and was given medicine. As a very good friend of mine visited him, he kept on telling him about his fantasy to fuck his own mother. 

So, I'm thinking this might come from wishing some kind of psychological reintegration by symbolically physically merging with the first person who's been in your life the living allegory of masculinity or femininity. 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I've always thought this was weird as fuck. When I was 14, I dated a Latino and he'd keep on calling me Mami.

The thing is, in french, "mamie" means grandma (and it's pronounced exactly the same). And "papi" means grandpa.  

That's not very sexy. 

@ivankiss @Emerald

There seem to be really an incestuous thing going on. And it's not so far fetched due to the fact that well, kids go through an oedipus phase.

I've been fascinated with collective sexual leitmotiv in society, and I remember reading once that some eastern european country I can't remember had as their number 1 gulty porn pleasure "mom and son" porn.

Also, the story is a bit gross, but one of my ex-coworker got very sick one day. He ended up at the hospital and was given medicine. As a very good friend of mine visited him, he kept on telling him about his fantasy to fuck his own mother. 

So, I'm thinking this might come from wishing some kind of psychological reintegration by symbolically physically merging with the first person who's been in your life the living allegory of masculinity or femininity. 

 

It could have to do with an incestuous drive for some. Those complexes certainly exist.

But my guess is that, when you talk to women who like to call their partner “daddy” in bed, most of them would probably be repulsed to imagine their actual father in a sexual way.

My money would be far more on the connection between the procreation instinct and calling the man a name that suggests both dominance and parenthood.

[Preety_India]

 

Maybe the Mami papi thing applies in a relationship generally however when it strictly comes to the bedroom, while having sex, the demand to be Called daddy is with perverted, incestuous, depraved, pedophilic undertones to it to derive maximum pleasure through a power dynamic.

Nothing innocent there 

 

[ivankiss]

@Emerald Interesting observations. Thanks.

But I keep getting the vibe you're dancing around the issue. 

Even if you have a perfect explanation for the dynamic; it doesn't mean that the dynamic itself is healthy or coming from a conscious space.

On the surface it might seem like 'meh, it's just a damn word'... But there's much more going on underneath.

Again; not saying this is absolutely so in all cases ever. But I'm pretty sure I'm not making stuff up - either. There is something funny here.

And what it is; is simple.

People do not work on their shit before they start fucking each other. So they enter the dating life with a bunch of mixed, unresolved, unidentified - even, emotions and ideas. 

The whole 'daddy' trend is simply the subconscious' way of pushing shit up to the surface. Shit that has not been dealt with.

Edited May 28, 2021 by ivankiss

[Etherial Cat]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But my guess is that, when you talk to women who like to call their partner “daddy” in bed, most of them would probably be repulsed to imagine their actual father in a sexual way.

My money would be far more on the connection between the procreation instinct and calling the man a name that suggests both dominance and parenthood.

I'm not totally sold on the procreation explanation, though there is definitely something going on with dominance and parenthood.

The daddy seems more archetypal/symbolical than a concrete vision of an actual father. 

Perhaps more like daddy as subconscious crave for a patriarchal feeling somewhat (as in patriarchy- male domination). It's interesting to note how in the west, God is referred to as the father. There is something almighty in the father figure.

[Emerald]

20 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Emerald Interesting observations. Thanks.

But I keep getting the vibe you're dancing around the issue. 

Even if you have a perfect explanation for the dynamic; it doesn't mean that the dynamic itself is healthy or coming from a conscious space.

On the surface it might seem like 'meh, it's just a damn word'... But there's much more going on underneath.

Again; not saying this is absolutely so in all cases ever. But I'm pretty sure I'm not making stuff up - either. There is something funny here.

And what it is; is simple.

People do not work on their shit before they start fucking each other. So they enter the dating life with a bunch of mixed, unresolved, unidentified - even, emotions and ideas. 

The whole 'daddy' trend is simply the subconscious' way of pushing shit up to the surface. Shit that has not been dealt with.

I don’t really think I am dancing around it. I genuinely think that’s the appeal... the combination between...

- dominance/submission

- the procreation drive

- puritanical notions of sex as dirty and desire to sanitize parenthood and see it as separate from sex.

Of course, this doesn’t preclude the possibility of there being some kind of Oedipal or Elektra dynamic. 

But I think, far and away, you’ll find that this fairly common sexual trope is much more about the three factors above than involving a genuine desire for incest.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Emerald

[ivankiss]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@ivankiss How is it damaging? 

Psychologically. Emotionally. Spiritually. (sometimes physically, too)

The dynamic assumes two are not whole, steady and powerful individuals. It is - at its core - codependece. It locks you in. Preventing you from becoming a fully conscious and fully independent individual.

Sounds idealistic, I know... But imagine the sex between two highly conscious individuals... Imagine that power play... Imagine that submission and that dominance...

What people are now doing mostly cannot be compared to conscious sex. Not even nearly. Conscious sex is way, way more mind-blowingly epic.

And I think that's something to be strived towards.

Edited May 29, 2021 by ivankiss

[ivankiss]

@Emerald Ok, cool.

Struggling to relate or to fully understand what you're saying, but cool.

Thanks for your input.

[Preety_India]

@ivankiss for me such a prospect would mean moral corruption. I wouldn't compromise on my sexual morality in exchange for pleasure which I would call sick pleasure. 

Btw you're one of the few guys who sees a problem with it, as most men are very easily too desperate and are eager to drop moral integrity in exchange for more pleasure, so kudos to you for bringing up the critical aspect and condemning it. 

 

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Psychologically. Emotionally. Spiritually. 

The dynamic assumes two are not whole, steady and powerful individuals. It is - at its core - codependece. It locks you in. Preventing you from becoming a fully conscious and fully independent individual.

Sounds idealistic, I know... But imagine the sex between two highly conscious individuals... Imagine that power play... Imagine that submission and that dominance...

What people are now doing mostly cannot be compared to conscious sex. Not even nearly. Conscious sex is way, way more mind-blowingly epic.

And I think that's something to be strived towards.

I definitely think the dynamic comes from stuff in the Unconscious for sure.

But I see this (and most kinks) as a fairly benign symptom of deeper dynamics that would be best explored and resolved at its roots.

I don’t see kinks as inherently negative to express unless it causes harm to someone. Nor do I view kinks as something that feeds themselves in intensity. 

Basically, the kink is a symptom of a deeper cause that doesn’t Itself impact the deeper cause or make it worse.

[ivankiss]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I don’t see kinks as inherently negative to express unless it causes harm to someone.

But it does cause harm. That's kinda the point.

There is plenty of examples. The internet is full of them. Google or YT anything narcissist abuse themed and you'll hear about the damage. The guys who are abusing these girls love to be their daddies. And the girls who abuse guys are trying to turn them into their fathers. Then they go fuck another dude. Because they don't actually want to fuck their daddy. They just want a father figure constantly by their side.

Boom. Mic drop.

Edited May 28, 2021 by ivankiss

[mivafofa]

Maybe she wants some sugar lol. Call her baby... o wait.. somehow that one is socially accepted! 

[ivankiss]

There can be healthy and safe ways of acting out kinks. I'm all for that. I'm kind of a kinky dude.

But I am against any kind of abuse. And I also enjoy diving deep.

[mivafofa]

i was kiddin btw. your thread post is funny.

Edited May 28, 2021 by mivafofa

[ivankiss]

@mivafofa Sorry, did not see your post earlier. My previous post was not a response to yours.

And cool, I guess.. Enjoy the show.

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

But it does cause harm. That's kinda the point.

There is plenty of examples. The internet is full of them. Google or YT anything narcissist abuse themed and you'll hear about the damage. The guys who are abusing these girls love to be their daddies. And the girls who abuse guys are trying to turn him into ther father. Then they go fuck another dude. Because they don't actually want to fuck their daddy. They just want a father figure constantly by their side.

Boom. Mike drop.

People with kinks are not inherently abusive. In fact, the majority of people have some kinks.

And there is nothing inherently abusive or unhealthy about exploring those kinks with a partner.

But a person is wise to look at the underlying reasons that the kink has resonance... which can often be about something other than what the kink itself relates to.

[Emerald]

33 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I'm not totally sold on the procreation explanation, though there is definitely something going on with dominance and parenthood.

The daddy seems more archetypal/symbolical than a concrete vision of an actual father. 

Perhaps more like daddy as subconscious crave for a patriarchal feeling somewhat (as in patriarchy- male domination). It's interesting to note how in the west, God is referred to as the father. There is something almighty in the father figure.

It could be about invoking that more archetypal paternal masculine quality.

Sex as an archetypal symbol is all about the interplay between the masculine and feminine... which can be expressed through certain God images.

So, that could be part of it... wanting to tap into that archetype and the feminine counterpart to that archetype.