Epistemology = What if afterlife is more like Salvia and less like DMT

[HereToLearn]

Good day, genuine truth seekers, who thirst for knowledge, like a man stranded on desert thirsts for water. 

Epistemology, ie. one`s theory of knowledge and is always worth to be in check of, its ones best tool to differentiate truth from delusions.

Some people have the conviction that Direct Experience = Truth, some say it is the Mind, others say its all the same, i.e. Mind = Direct experience.

However, I see that almost all people have bias, even if they try very hard to be objective, disregarding the obivious fact that, solely due to the fact that they are reasoning from a human POV, full objectivity is not possible, at least until one un-learns to think like a human, with what human finds attractive etc.

For example, someone does DMT and has a beautiful experience, then, same person does Salvia and has scary experience. Then, afterwards, the person shares the message that afterlife is more like a DMT bliss, but, what if afterlife is like Salvia?

BUT? What if none of this models are necessary because whatever one I call "reality" is just my own imagination, i other words, I am not bound by "reality".

Because : Think about it, one experiences both a DMT Bliss and Salvia Scariness, which shows the person that Consciousness can be many things. But due to bias, the person believes that after death he will go to DMT bliss, sounds bias isnt it? Then how does one confirm to oneself, what afterlife is more like? And who gets to decide for the person? If the person decides - why cant the same person dictate over their current earth-reality? What/Who stops them from this?

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by HereToLearn

[BipolarGrowth]

Acting like you know the specific content of what comes after death is an epistemic error in likely all cases. The fact is that this is an imagined moment which we project our various conceptual maps onto. Nothing is likely to get it 100% right, and maybe it’s different for everyone. I tend to think that Existence is far more individualized. The lesson is for you, generated by you in real time. 
 

So yes, I agree that DMT bliss states are a horrible measure to use for explaining all of Reality or future events. 
 

Why is there a bias toward one chemical group or one virtue? It’s all valid. 
 

The future will likely be something you can neither predict or accept using your current paradigm. This is a pattern I’ve noticed in my own life and pretty much everyone else’s life. 

[TripleFly]

It cannot be like anything at all because it is not a thing at all! It's completely nothing at all. And it can seem like some kind of awakening because there is the experience of someone awakening. EVEN a realization that is happening, without any drugs at all. Is not IT. But it can SEEM LIKE IT. 100% For SURE. But it can never be it

For who could grasp the wind? 

Edited May 28, 2021 by TripleFly

[Anahata]

It seems to me that you didn't have any serious breakthrough so far, I mean you only scratched the surface of what these dreamed up by consciousness beautiful tools called psychedelics can offer you. There are states of consciousness and there is you becoming directly conscious that you are the source of these and all there is, but on top of that you are at the same time the infinite states of consciousness, but your Will is what determines what you experience because you are all powerful and sentient. Thus, the afterlife is determined by God's Will

[HereToLearn]

19 minutes ago, Anahata said:

It seems to me that you didn't have any serious breakthrough so far, I mean you only scratched the surface of what these dreamed up by consciousness beautiful tools called psychedelics can offer you. There are states of consciousness and there is you becoming directly conscious that you are the source of these and all there is, but on top of that you are at the same time the infinite states of consciousness, but your Will is what determines what you experience because you are all powerful and sentient. Thus, the afterlife is determined by God's Will

If I am The one who Is the one determining reality, why can I determine it right now? That I can teleport for example? 

Not all direct experiences are true, isn`t it so? I mean, people with sczhizophrenia do have direct experiences of all kinds, but we call them delusions, so how does one differentiate truth from delusion? 

At the same time it is super simple, by conducting an Experiment to check if one`s sense of becoming all powerful and sentient is true and not merely a delusional experiences: Take a person who had such state before and give them necessary psyhedelic, have another person in another room watching certain content on a TV. When the person starts to have the experience of feeling all powerful and sentient, ask the person to tell you what content is the person in the next room is watching on his TV. Just this one simple experiment, can decide if these states are delusions or the truth

Edited May 28, 2021 by HereToLearn

[Anahata]

Just now, HereToLearn said:

If I am The one who Is the one determining reality, why can I determine it right now? That I can teleport for example? 

 

Because God wants to take buses, trains, ride bikes, drive cars, walk and fly on planes for a while ^^ 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Anahata

[Anahata]

Would you want to make a nest for yourself in the middle of Amazonian jungle as a human? 

[Anahata]

Yet, for a bird that's a normal path of action to take. Whereas as a human being, if you were to create a nest in your garden and ask your family to come and have some insects for launch with you there, that would instantly be labeled as crazy behaviour, right?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Anahata

[RMQualtrough]

Well DMT has been incredibly troubling for me a number of times, Salvia was not it was just overwhelming. I pray there is no DMT afterlife for that is hell.

[HereToLearn]

7 minutes ago, Anahata said:

Yet, for a bird that's a normal path of action to take. Whereas as a human being, if you were to create a nest in your garden and ask your family to come and have some insect for launch with you there, that would instantly be labeled as crazy behaviour, right?

Of course, at the end of the day, we are bias, because we are experiencing reality from a limited POV.  Therefore, it seems that if One is after Truth, than One has to try to minimize the bias, in other words, at least stop thinking like human

[Anahata]

Sometimes it's all about collective consensus when it comes to what's normal and what's delusional.

Now, of course, if certain behaviours come as a response to fear, things can get bad because the ego-mind can get very evil & aggressive due to fear & 'unconsciousness'. Think about taming a saltwater crocodile. You might get in real trouble lol

Yes, in that case you can say that animal is delusional because it lives out of an extreme survival game. It does not know anything but how to survive so that it does not die. But you understand what's happening and you treat the situation in the most cautious way possible. It's a lesser level of consciousness, a very primitive one so to speak. 

Now think about a human driven by ego. Same thing. But an awakened person can see why he's behaving that way and thus again...he will treat the situation in the most mindful manner possible and they might get them on the right path with enough tact & love.

Now, a person that consider themselves spiritually awakened might have a spiritual ego and they might act in a delusional manner because they believe a story their ego is telling them. So they might create suffering around them in some way or another.

Let's say they become a yoga instructor and they start emotionally abusing one student. What's happening here? Delusion of course.

Why? Because they are not over their imaginary ego. Still living in fear, insecure, lost. They want to feel superior to others. They didn't realize we are all one Consciousness, they didn't realize God is Love.

So, a God-realized person might find out about this horrible situation and solve the issue with calm, taking a thoughtful strategic approach, out of pure love and understanding.

The God-realized person will instantly recognize the behaviour for what it really is. Identification with the spiritual delusional ego-mind. 

They might even get this person on the right path, leading by example in a way.

So yeah. There are degrees of how conscious one is.

This is why enlightenement is the answer. 

The more awakened, the less delusional ego driven behaviour.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Anahata

[HereToLearn]

6 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Well DMT has been incredibly troubling for me a number of times, Salvia was not it was just overwhelming. I pray there is no DMT afterlife for that is hell.

Sorry to hear DMT was  a bad experience for you. I do wonder what is the truth behind afterlife. 

[Anahata]

Here's the thing. When you get real God-realization, you get awakened to the fact that you are Love. All impurities of the ego get dissolved into love, baptized into love. The delusion of the survival driven evil thoughts and actions are gone for good.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Anahata

[HereToLearn]

3 minutes ago, Anahata said:

Sometimes it's all about collective consensus when it comes to what's normal and what's delusional.

Now, of course, if certain behaviours come as a response to fear, things can get bad because the ego-mind can get very evil & aggresive due to the fear & 'unconsciousness'. Think about taming a saltwater crocodile. You might get in real trouble lol

Yes, in that case you can say that animal is delusional because it lives out of an extreme survival game. It does not know anything but how to survive so that it does not die. But you understand what's happening and you treat the situation in the most cautious way possible. It's a lesser level of consciousness, a very primitive one so to speak. 

Now think about a human driven by ego. Same thing. But an awakened person can see why he's behaving that way and thus again...he will treat the situation in the most mindful manner possible and they might get them on the right path with enough tact & love.

Now, that awakened person might have a spiritual ego and they might as delusional because they believe a story their ego is telling them. So they might create suffering around them in some way or another, I mean intentionally. 

Let's say they become a counselor and they start emotionally abusing one student. What's happening here? Delusion of course.

Why? Because they are not over their imaginary ego. Still living in fear, insecure, lost. They want to feel superior to others. They didn't realize we are all one Consciousness, they didn't realize God is Love.

So, a God-realized person might find out about this horrible situation and solve the issue with calm and taking a thoughtful strategic approach, acting like a saviour which is good, out of pure love and understanding.

The God-realized person will instantly recognize the behaviour for what it really is. Identification with the spiritual delusional ego-mind. 

They might even get this person on the right path, leading by example in a way.

So yeah. There are degrees of how conscious one is.

This is why enlightenement is the answer. 

The more awakened, the less delusional ego driven behaviour.

 

 

Good wisdom.

[Anahata]

@HereToLearn ❤