My Dad has so much faith in Conventional Medicine that he doesn't take me seriously

[Vision]

I'm trying to solve a lot of my health conditions which can only really be solved through means other than conventional medicine, let alone even be recognized in conventional medicine. 

 

My dad isn't very supportive of this however. Due to his overbearing faith in conventional medicine, he tells me to just take pharmaceutical drugs that ease the symptoms, but his mind isn't open to being explained how bad the consequences of using these drugs are. 

Since my biggest health conditions are not recognized in conventional medicine (such as leaky gut, SIBO, and adrenal fatigue), my dad doesn't even take them seriously.

He thinks that Functional Medicine and Naturopathy are pseudoscientific scams with no scientific evidence. Since he also read these same claims on Wikipedia, and that it's the first thing you see when you Google search those terms, he is even more convinced of this bias. 

He is also very against dietary changes, he genuinely believes that diet shouldn't have anything to do with my health conditions, "they can be fixed with meds".

He has a big knee-jerk reaction to me eating a healthy diet. He dislikes it when his family doesn't eat the same things as him. My mum has been a vegetarian for almost a decade and it still bothers my dad to this day, he still tries to convince her to eat meat again. So he really rubs this one on me a lot, being displeased that I don't eat the same things as him (which I probably never will as his diet is pretty unhealthy), etc. 

 

My dad has argued with me about it. This is what he thinks:

• The medicines that exist within conventional medicine, exist because they work. If these herbal treatments and supplements work, why aren't they accepted by mainstream medicine? Why aren't they brought into mainstream medicine?
• If these are real health conditions, why aren't they known in mainstream medicine? 
• Most of the medicines in the pharmaceutical industry are funded by the government (at least in my country), because they work, so the price is reduced. These herbal treatments and supplements are much more expensive, so this must be a scam. 

I don't know how to answer these questions, because I don't know why. But what I do know, is that where the pharmaceutical industry has failed, functional medicine and naturopathy has cured people of their problems. Conventional doctors told me that my conditions were chronic and that I'd have to live with them.  It wasn't until I tried to take supplements recommended by people who practice functional medicine that I started to notice some improvement which I had never experienced with pharmaceutical drugs.

One of the most helpful things I could have right now is some emotional support, but I feel dragged down here. 

How can I explain to my dad that what I am doing actually works? How do I refute his arguments? 

[Michael569]

Seems like you need to start saving up to move out ?

[Loving Radiance]

@Vision The mind is a tricky thing.

The way you describe him I would say that he cannot reasoned with on this matter. Even if you ask him what evidence he would need to see from you to change his mind (for the efficacy of non-conventional medicine and non-western diet), he can just deny its validity based on anything that strikes him as oddly shaped in the evidence. This way you could present innumerous cases and he could deflect any of them.

It is attacking his way of life. It is an attack on his identity just to think that there is something else.

However, you can of course search for evidence that makes him question his "epistemics".

Are you financially dependent on him for treatment etc.? If yes, then move in the direction of becoming financially independent from him. If his presence and need to convert/challenge you makes it unbearable, then move out.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[Mada_]

I can relate. I kind of gave up on sharing things with me dad, he has biases that I don't really understand/care to understand (at this point). I got him to read "The Pleasure Trap", to which he read a part about the biological function of fever, which he dismissed because anti-vaxers would use this as ammunition for their cause. 

Health is pretty nuanced in my view; emperically, we should eat only wholefoods, but then some people are intolerant to certain wholefoods, eating only meat has shown to eliminate symptoms of autoimmunity, but a diet high in animal products has been shown to increase inflammation etc. 

Some people refuse to challenge their comfort zone, what are you going to do about it? 

My mindset is that I will keep trying to master my health with fierce effort, and one day my results will be so successful, that people will begin asking me questions. 

[Adamq8]

Ask him about the placebo effect and what his thoughts is about that topic, try to look up some more information about it, and the nocebo effect.

How our minds effect diseases and can cure illnesses.

[Eren Eeager]

@Vision His mind is unready to open up to new things. He needs to suffer so much first before he decides to move on. sorry but this is how life works. Don't push too much too. things takes time,

[Human Mint]

20 hours ago, Vision said:

My dad has argued with me about it. This is what he thinks:

• The medicines that exist within conventional medicine, exist because they work. If these herbal treatments and supplements work, why aren't they accepted by mainstream medicine? Why aren't they brought into mainstream medicine?

because of people like him lol

[sholomar]

I would not try to nag to him about his diet, just let him be and accept him, but of course eat your healthy diet, that's fine.  Nagging tends to sometimes just bring on resentment. If people really want to eat a certain way, they'll tend to do so until they are forced into a corner, such as some sort of chronic disease... they say 1/3 of american adults have prediabetes... from a high carb, high fat diet.

I'm lucky my father and I are very alike when it comes to diet and fitness... he eats plant based 4 days a week and I have also lately. My stepfather had heart bypass surgery and his diet is still not the best, but I don't really nag him. It's not going to accomplish anything except fuel resentment.  Some people have the attitude they'd rather eat what they love and die early than live on celery stalks, and you know what, that really is fine. There's no right or wrong way to do it, not in the grand scheme of things.

Even if my father and I agreed on everything, I still wouldn't want to live with him. Perhaps like others have said, get out on your own so you can be your own person. My father unlike myself is a nagger... he will promote his plant based diet over and over to anyone that will listen to the point of enough already.. chuckle. I'll mention it once.. beyond that, it's up to the individual to make whatever choices they want. I don't know how much you bring it up, but consider that mentioning it all the time might have caused his resentment.

I noticed the tendency of the stage greenies here to have a sort of judgement of the lower stages, which of course is normal for greens... but you'd have a lot more peace of mind if you accepted what is outside your control, namely the behavior of others, rather than getting upset about it. To me that's a key part of the self development process, something I continually work on. I don't nag, I just live by example when I can... well when I'm not playing keyboard warrior on other forums. Chuckle.

Edited May 29, 2021 by sholomar

[Vision]

On 28/05/2021 at 9:39 PM, Michael569 said:

Seems like you need to start saving up to move out ?

I have enough to move out. Made a separate post for this: 

On 29/05/2021 at 1:33 AM, Loving Radiance said:

The way you describe him I would say that he cannot reasoned with on this matter. Even if you ask him what evidence he would need to see from you to change his mind (for the efficacy of non-conventional medicine and non-western diet), he can just deny its validity based on anything that strikes him as oddly shaped in the evidence. This way you could present innumerous cases and he could deflect any of them.

True, this is exactly what's happening. It's a bias. 

On 29/05/2021 at 1:33 AM, Loving Radiance said:

Are you financially dependent on him for treatment etc.?

@Loving Radiance 

No, I've been funding my own treatment. He just says that I'm using money "irresponsibly" and tries to convince me that I'm being scammed.

On 29/05/2021 at 3:34 AM, Adamq8 said:

Ask him about the placebo effect and what his thoughts is about that topic, try to look up some more information about it, and the nocebo effect.

I'll look into it. Thanks. 

[Jacob Morres]

lol i had all 3 of his exact fucking arguments when i was younger lol. hyper scientifically minded

nothing would have convinced me otherwise. it took very extraneous conditions for that to be dismantled 

Bias is strong

not saying that your dad's bias is/was and desire to argue/be right are strong as mine were though.  

 

now diet being tied with health conditions is now coming into science. that is definietely refutable with science

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Vision]

I appreciate your response @sholomar. Just to clear up a few things:

On 29/05/2021 at 5:34 PM, sholomar said:

I would not try to nag to him about his diet, just let him be and accept him, but of course eat your healthy diet, that's fine.  Nagging tends to sometimes just bring on resentment. If people really want to eat a certain way, they'll tend to do so until they are forced into a corner, such as some sort of chronic disease... they say 1/3 of american adults have prediabetes... from a high carb, high fat diet.

There is an assumption here that I nag him about his diet. It is the opposite. I simply stated that his diet is unhealthy in my original post, I never explicitly told him that his diet is unhealthy. There is nothing inherently wrong about eating unhealthy, it's just his choice, and I accept that. I never barge in and preach about health. He is the one nagging me about my "healthy diet", talking to me as if I were a hypochondriac. So I explain to him, and of course, a debate ensues.

On 29/05/2021 at 5:34 PM, sholomar said:

I noticed the tendency of the stage greenies here to have a sort of judgement of the lower stages, which of course is normal for greens... but you'd have a lot more peace of mind if you accepted what is outside your control, namely the behavior of others, rather than getting upset about it. To me that's a key part of the self development process, something I continually work on. I don't nag, I just live by example when I can

Again, there's an assumption here. I'm not upset about his choices, nor do I judge them. It is the opposite. He continually nags me about how I'm "wasting money on organic food when it doesn't make a difference" and that my health treatment is a sham. Almost every time we eat together he brings this up. He tells my mum about how being a vegetarian has made her look older and weaker and constantly offers her meat even though she's been a vegetarian for almost a decade!

It just gets tiresome hearing him preach his biases and try to control my behavior. I just want him to let me be and do my thing, let me spend my money and energy how I want to.

[Loving Radiance]

1 hour ago, Vision said:

I just want him to let me be and do my thing, let me spend my money and energy how I want to.

You already asked him to let you be, right? And he sees that you won't change your mind?

[Vision]

11 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

You already asked him to let you be, right?

Yes.

11 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

And he sees that you won't change your mind?

Sure doesn't seem like it since he's always trying to change it. 

[DIDego]

@Vision Hi ❤️

Im born 1980 and lived as young with older generations that not got trapped into so much tv and tech addictions, recommend to zoom out and see how society have become collective.

It's weird to see people i known for long time change because of tech and society pressure. Into a "narcissistic" behavior.

Problem is, it is familiar and close behavior to drug addiction way of living or life crisis behavior and survival mode.

Stress during long period that has going on for at least 25 years, slowly got worse, compared to a frog in cold water and slowly raising temperature towards boiling point.

No one seems to recognize their fundamental change, UNTIL it often today become "out-burn" brain and then it become noticed and to late often.

Zoom out and try see what people hides for you, because you can see your parents behind the scenes and see all limitations under a microscope.

This is today so common that people have their best face then outside their home or nearby people. But all the dysfunctionaity and drama have become more of a normal thing if you want to look for narcissistic behavior.

There are not that many that really are narcissistic if they feel safety and not in survival mode.

Most people i meet when talk and help them feel safe so their stress level or crisis can be forgotten a while, starts to open up and often only need a safe zone to be able trust, maybe a little help to let emotions come out.

Then when they go back to their normal state(stress and so), the hearth kind of closes and their act out of a sort of practical/logic/survival approach until next time we meet. But after a year or so i got more of my older friends to start listen to their own feelings and also able express emotions.

Generations after generations have suppressed their emotions, help people feel and in the beginning it can be hurtful and therefor always be careful so it not are to much for who you talk with.

 

[flowboy]

You're not going to convince him.

You can win an argument, sure. But that will just piss him off and make him dig in his heels more.

All wasted energy.

Move out as soon as possible.

Improve your health using functional medicine and diet.

Just be doing really well and show him that, maybe in a few years he'll come around.

All you can do.

[Jacob Morres]

@flowboy I'm curious how you came to the conclusion of moving out? Was this strong enough to beget that in ur opinion?

[Windappreciator]

Your problem isn't your dad's view it's your attachment to your dad.

You can't keep the same attachment towards your dad while holding that view on unconventional medicine, so you are asking us for to create a picture for you that preserves both.

It's impossible and time to move on.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Michael569]

@Vision you can't change him and the more conscious you become the greater the conflict. Move out as soon as possible for the sake of your health and mental well-being. Ideally at least 200 km away. If he is as you say there is nothing you can do to change that. 

Find a condo or a shared flat and start there. It's your life mate, no time to waste. Move out and get your health fixed properly. Good luck! 

[Vision]

On 5/31/2021 at 6:00 PM, Jacob Morres said:

lol i had all 3 of his exact fucking arguments when i was younger lol. hyper scientifically minded

nothing would have convinced me otherwise. it took very extraneous conditions for that to be dismantled 

Bias is strong

not saying that your dad's bias is/was and desire to argue/be right are strong as mine were though.  

 

now diet being tied with health conditions is now coming into science. that is definietely refutable with science

 

@Jacob Morres What dismantled it for you?

[Vision]

On 6/1/2021 at 7:43 AM, flowboy said:

You're not going to convince him.

You can win an argument, sure. But that will just piss him off and make him dig in his heels more.

All wasted energy.

Move out as soon as possible.

Improve your health using functional medicine and diet.

Just be doing really well and show him that, maybe in a few years he'll come around.

All you can do.

Yeah. I spend most of my time in my room anyway. Most of our conversations happen when we're eating. 

On 6/1/2021 at 10:11 PM, Windappreciator said:

Your problem isn't your dad's view it's your attachment to your dad.

You can't keep the same attachment towards your dad while holding that view on unconventional medicine, so you are asking us for to create a picture for you that preserves both.

I don't really feel attached to my dad. I always fantasize about being freed from his shackles. I just want him to let me be. Being nagged about the way you live your life gets tiresome, attached or not. 

On 6/2/2021 at 4:52 AM, Michael569 said:

you can't change him and the more conscious you become the greater the conflict. Move out as soon as possible for the sake of your health and mental well-being. Ideally at least 200 km away. If he is as you say there is nothing you can do to change that. 

Find a condo or a shared flat and start there. It's your life mate, no time to waste. Move out and get your health fixed properly. Good luck! 

Yeah, that's my plan; Once I'm old enough, move into an apartment. I'm just going to have to put up with it for the next 2 years. Until then, they are still my legal guardians. Gotta make the best of what I can.