How to develop Machiavellian traits?

[28 cm unbuffed]

Read 48 rules of power, there are some good points, fuck Machiavellism tho

[traveller]

in my experience I felt most powerfull when I less care about being strong or in your term ''machiavellian''  and connect with my feelings. Here I think the most important thing is to observe yourself,  it is not about others it is about you and your emotions. So maybe you can practise releasing. Sedona Method type of work might help. when you are not comfortable with feeling anger and fear against yourself and others,  it is difficult to function effectively.  so working on your emotions is probably best place to start.. good luck 

Edited May 29, 2021 by traveller
punctuation

[Eternity]

Keep in mind "do to others as you would have them do to you."  Why?  Because there is only you and what you do to so called "others" you are doing to yourself.

[Preety_India]

 

I don't want Jesus Christ answers. 

I'm talking about hard practical objective stuff, self Actualization related 

I'm trying to be a Strategic motherfucker (refer Leo video of the same title). 

For pure survival, you need Reptilian Brain, not spiritual platitude bullshit. 

This thread is not about Spirituality and Consciousness 

 

It's about Survival. And Survival has a lot of Low Consciousness in it 

Keep in mind that I'm discussing low consciousness here for pure brutal survival. 

So please keep away the armchair, luxury, high horse spiritual platitude stuff. It serves no purpose in Brutal survival. 

I'm not living in a cave. When I will live in a cave, I'll follow High Consciousness teachings. With that kind of luxury it's easy or in a stage Green empathy dipped society where bills are paid by government and free insurance, there spirituality is easy with Yoga  and Bhoga. 

 

Thanks 

[StarStruck]

Strangle a kitten.

[mivafofa]

You guys all throwing advanced diplomatic advices as if you've never had to deal with heavy cases of stage red and extreme harsh environment.

You don't pour kindness, integrity or respect to people who intentionally harms you. Do you even realize the danger of this? Handling freely your compassionate heart to your abuser on a silver platter who won't hesitate to stab it as many times as you let them? Only for the pleasure to see how much you can bleed.  Well let me tell you, it trains the victim to over-compensate the shortcomings of stage-red. So much it becomes second-nature for a survivor to actually do MORE for others than they will ever do for themselves. That's why these "do to others as you would have them do to you." type of advice can be dangerous here. That's why it's important to really grasp where a person comes from before throwing any advices, because some would literally be counter-productive for their extreme situation. And that's what you guys need to understand, we are dealing with extreme cases. Not smthg you would consider 'normal' in a 1rst world society - where good-will and happy butterflies shall prevail, y'know?

Anyway.. on a last note, this is all reminding me of this application I'm still working on... and maybe could be of helpful to you @Preety_India : Don't be afraid to let people work for your heart. Let them prove they deserve your love. Don't hand out your love for free. It's precious and valuable. And will only be given to those who has proven worthy of receiving it.

[Preety_India]

@mivafofa thank you so much. Your advice is most valuable. 

 

[Proserpina]

My Dad is an extreme 'asshole'. In my experience if you cant pick up machievellian traits as self defense (just say you have disability) there's a lot of positive karma with applying gentleness and selflessness to an extremely selfish individual. That's if your sanity can manage it. Otherwise if you can, more power to you. 

[tatsumaru]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

It's about Survival. And Survival has a lot of Low Consciousness in it 

Keep in mind that I'm discussing low consciousness here for pure brutal survival. 

So please keep away the armchair, luxury, high horse spiritual platitude stuff. It serves no purpose in Brutal survival. 

I'm not living in a cave. When I will live in a cave, I'll follow High Consciousness teachings. With that kind of luxury it's easy or in a stage Green empathy dipped society where bills are paid by government and free insurance, there spirituality is easy with Yoga  and Bhoga.

People lived in caves for millions of years, didn't help them be any more spiritual than they are now.
There's no such thing as brutal survival, that's just your ego identity crying for attention. How can a fucking cave be a luxury...
Green has nothing to do with whether your government is taking care of you or not. It's about what you identify with.
Wow, do you really believe that psychological evolution is generated and maintained by your external circumstances?
Circumstances have nothing to do with it. You have 1000% enlightened yogis who don't even have $0.10 for food and you have billionaires who are still looking for how to develop claws and fangs.

If you still need to play some red/purple games before you wake up then by all means go and play, just don't pretend that it isn't your own choice.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, tatsumaru said:

Wow, do you really believe that psychological evolution is generated and maintained by your external circumstances?

Of course. People suffer PTSD because of their circumstances. 

Our environments have a huge impact on our psyche. 

 

[tatsumaru]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Of course. People suffer PTSD because of their circumstances. 

Our environments have a huge impact on our psyche. 

 

People suffer PTSD because of how they react and relate to their circumstances.
I have to admit it's actually a bit funny that you are inviting zero ego guys in your signature while at the same time asking about how to strengthen your ego.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

People suffer PTSD because of how they react and relate to their circumstances.
I have to admit it's actually a bit funny that you are inviting zero ego guys in your signature while at the same time asking about how to strengthen your ego.

By zero ego I mean someone who is not acting egotistical. Healthy ego is not the same as egotistical ass. 

People suffer PTSD because of how they react but they can't be blamed for their reaction. One cannot discount the role of the environment in triggering these reactions. 

It's akin to saying, you weren't robbed by a thief, you were robbed because you don't have the best alarm system. 

Blaming everything on a sufferer is a victim blaming narrative. 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Preety_India

[TripleFly]

LSD.

I used to be afraid and paranoid about people figuring out that I am tripping, but actually I found out that LSD helps me navigate and socialize so much better. It's like I am one with the moment, and so I see every possible outcome. Just don't do too much.

So yeah I am sure LSD can help you just understand better what is happening around you, and so navigate it much better. 

[Raphael]

Use anger as fuel, concentrate it in a specific direction so that it becomes like a rocket engine and makes you pop out of the stratosphere. That's what I did in survival situations where I needed to be more machiavellian.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Raphael said:

Use anger as fuel, concentrate it in a specific direction so that it becomes like a rocket engine and makes you pop out of the stratosphere. That's what I did in survival situations where I needed to be more machiavellian.

Thank you for the advice 

[Ghartok Padhome]

Women are already "machiavellian". Use your natural emotional intelligence to figure out what people want, what makes them tick. If you know someone wants X you can either (pretend to)indulge him or (threaten to)deny him.

 

Books are well and good, I second the Thick Face, Black Heart recommendation, but don't get too caught up in them. A book like the 48 Laws of Power is really just a collection of tactics, a playbook really, but "manipulation" is heavily dependent on context, on you relationship and history with your targets, psychological debt, the narrative that's already there etc.

More important than that, your ability to be manipulative and execute Greene's tactics is heavily dependent on the broad category of skills that used to be called "cunning": charm, humor, the ability to sell, to tell a story, to entertain, to show and demand respect, to read social cues, to flatter, to probe someone for valuable information without appearing to, to pretend, to dissimulate, to be a hypocrite, to threaten.

 

Someone above said to strangle a kitten. While it was meant humorously, it's actually true that if you're "squeamish" do need to desensitize yourself to the feeling and the constant tension of being in conflict, in looking for weakness, of looking to harm someone simply because they are an obstacle to you.

 

Nevermind being "defensive", start looking for ways to "get over" on the people in your life who are not important to you. I would suggest you start small and you start in an area where women already are unconsciously, instinctively manipulative: dating.

Start taking advantage of men in small ways, such as getting them to pay for coffee/drinks, to take you to dinner without you having any intention of sleeping with them etc.

 

And most important of all: make every effort to conceal your intent. Never give any hint that you study or give any thought to topics such as strategy, manipulation etc. Develop a reputation as reliable, trustworthy, even naive, and protect it at all costs. 

Be cunning as a serpent and innocent as a dove.

[tatsumaru]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

By zero ego I mean someone who is not acting egotistical. Healthy ego is not the same as egotistical ass. 

People suffer PTSD because of how they react but they can't be blamed for their reaction. One cannot discount the role of the environment in triggering these reactions. 

It's akin to saying, you weren't robbed by a thief, you were robbed because you don't have the best alarm system. 

Blaming everything on a sufferer is a victim blaming narrative. 

 

So apparently you aren't into zero ego but into some specific sort of ego that you perceive as healthy. I would say egotistical asses have quite a healthy ego. That's why they are so egotistical. If their ego was frail and sick would it have so much power?

Saying that people can't be blamed about their reaction is basically saying that you are not responsible about yourself. And if you really believe that, then why are you asking about claws and fangs in the first place, how are you going to use them if your reactions aren't up to you? How can you ever stop thinking of yourself as a victim if you believe yourself to be a slave to circumstance? It is only when you accept 100% responsibility for your destiny that you can have control, otherwise it's always something else's fault - the thief, the parents, the government, the era, the pope, the aliens, the economy, the education etc. 99% responsibility isn't enough, that 1% will kill you, you have to be all in.

Being robbed by a thief isn't the best, but creating a whole life identity around losing $50 in the park 5 years ago is just silly. If you are in a situation where losing a few bucks or your phone is such a tragedy, you have more serious problems than the thief. And maybe you shouldn't carry too much money, jewelry or expensive smart phones in dark corners of the city late at night. Maybe if you got hit by a car you shouldn't have been wearing headphones and not being able to hear what's going on around you. Maybe if you got diabetes you shouldn't have been drinking 1 liter of coke every day for the last 15 years. I am not saying that if you get raped as a baby that's your fault, but choosing to identify as a victim for the rest of your life is. Let it go and move on, maybe learn some martial arts and next time it won't happen. This has nothing to do with exploiting mom's traumas of their dead babies in order to manipulate, plot and scheme against your enemies.

[herghly]

I'd strong recommend Robert Greenes book. His latest book, Laws of Human Nature, is particularly good

[mivafofa]

5 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

There's no such thing as brutal survival, that's just your ego identity crying for attention. How can a fucking cave be a luxury...
Green has nothing to do with whether your government is taking care of you or not. It's about what you identify with.
Wow, do you really believe that psychological evolution is generated and maintained by your external circumstances?
Circumstances have nothing to do with it. You have 1000% enlightened yogis who don't even have $0.10 for food and you have billionaires who are still looking for how to develop claws and fangs.

If you still need to play some red/purple games before you wake up then by all means go and play, just don't pretend that it isn't your own choice.

I suggest you to further your studies in spiral dynamics. Look up additional important insights.  There's a lot of misconceptions in your post.  Your external circumstances has everything to do with your psychological evolution.  You really don't know how good you had it, don't you? You think someone else can fix their problems with the solutions that helped you fix the problems that YOU have faced.  And while reading your latest post with examples how of react better - it's becoming clearer and clearer that you never had to deal with real fucking brutal environment. If you did, you would understand the necessity and urgency to fight fire with fire. But you fortunately you didn't.. because you've been gracefully given water to pour over fire, while some others have been given a tank of oil. And you assume everybody just naturally have a handy water reserve in their pocket.  And thus you can only analyze the problem with your own perspective based on your own experiences.


When you transcend a stage, you bring the previous stage along with the new stage. You keep the useful tools of survival from there and forsaken the limiting part of it. If circumstances has prevented you to fully incorporate a stage and now you're placed at a war zone with no underground fighting skills, it's important to go back in order not to create a shadow.  And then you transcend and include. Not transcend and demonize and judge.

[Tech36363]

@Preety_India you dont need to follow his book but develop a mindset or embody an idea , for me it was when i realized no one cares . No one will care if i am dying on the side of the road , no one will care to pay for my food if i dont have any . Not only that they will try to make my life more tough . 

 

I was always soft introverted guy , even softer , honest than a kid

 

But when i realized no one gives a shit if you mispronounce something while giving a speech , no one cares if your clothes are not fashionable and they wont buy you new . It was a game changer for me . I instantly had this nihilism but beyond that i started doing what i want and being a go getter