Death and loosing identity vs "heaven"

[look_inside]

OK First post, so please have pity on me... : )

Can someone help me reconcile what Leo is describing with bodily death?

Leo talks about a loosing of identity and a merging back to the infinite at the moment of death, but this is in stark contrast with thousands (maybe millions) of accounts of near death, shared death, actual death (as recounted in channeled materials) where there are a range of experiences that involve something similar to a non-physical but seemingly bodily and dualistic experience with others.

For a multitude of reasons I find it hard to believe that these accounts are all fabrications. 

In more than one video Leo talks about our "physical" death as the end of our ego and the beginning (or resumption?) of non-dual existence. So how would it be possible to be totally realized and non-dual, while also having an experience in a non-physical plane? An experience where one might experience relationships, plan further incarnations and live a type of life.

[Shin]

You're already in a non-physical plane, this is no more solid that your last night dream, except now you believe everything around you is made of something you call matter and that is definitely not made up by your mind, but it is.

God is everything you experience right now, and no individual self is experiencing anything, the individual self is an experience too.
There is no ego that can die, it's a figment of your imagination, an experience you create out of thin air right now, something you imagine as God.

So there is no contradiction really, those people just recall what they imagined (as God) after "death", which is just more experience.

What Leo says is that to merge with God you have to see through the fiction of "death" and see that you're not a human being, that it's just an experience inside you (God).

So in a sense, the death of the body, is the same as the death of the self (what you think is you), cause when you lose the body, you lose the object of identification you used to be attached, and  if you believe in reincarnation, that you have an individual soul, then you can go on and imagine there is a you in an another body or animal or whatever.

Basically, if you want to understand this intuitively, just start to think that everything you experience, whether it is a dream, "real" life or the "hallucinations" of a psychedelic, that they are all happening inside an infinite mind, capable of imagining whatever it want, even that it's a human being extremely limited in what he can do, in a vast world with other people.

It's all imagined by you (as God).

Just be careful as to say that then nothing is real, that will just add unnecessary suffering and depression, that's just a human projection, cause you can't say that something is real or unreal, cause there need something to be real (materially speaking) for that distinction to be even possible.

There isn't, nothing is material, materiality is a thing you imagine too.

Same thing with aloneness, you can't be alone if there never was something else than you, that's another human projection.

 

/!\ Don' t harm the body, you don't need to "die" to realize what's true /!\

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Shin

[look_inside]

Thanks Shin-

Yes. This I get. Many years ago based on research and experimentation, I reached the conclusion that matter and energy are illusory. They are only ideas around which the experience of physical reality is formed.  I think of it as the scaffolding on which our experiences can occur. It gives us a stage on which we can play our our individual dramas.

Here's the question I am trying to get at: 

If those who physically die, immediately reach a state of non-dual existence, then what are they doing having a dualistic experience? There seems to be an objective experience happening following death since there are cases where it can objectively be shown to have occurred. It seems as though many or most experiencers seem to simply move to a non-physical state of non-dual existence where a life-like story continues. Feels to me like this dual to non-dual transition is not a binary thing that happens spontaneously at death, but rather a thing that we need to work on, perhaps over many iterations of birth-death. ?

Also the question still remains for me: if/when we reach this state of non-dual existence, especially considering its unsurpassable bliss, why would we even consider acting in a non-dual way again? Why would we be put that garment back on? Of course the "we" is no longer in existence, but it seems like some intention toward more dualism cycles is still in play. Would this cycle between convergence and divergence just represent the "design of the system" and not intention? 

And finally: where is the history of all that has occurred stored? We can't deny that experiences have occurred, right? Physicality aside: things have happened. Love has been exchanged, emotions have been felt. There are many examples where one incarnate can recall the experiences of another. This implies that this information doesn't vanish when someone has becomes "realized".

Edited May 28, 2021 by look_inside
fix typo

[Kambido]

My belief is you full circle back to who you are... maybe to some different levels in the infinite, but i believe when you become god, you also immediately shut down from being god bc god is also not god for a darn good reason. Why would god ever be just god? So, most important thing, imho, is prepare for future incarnations bc who you are now is the best evidence of who you can be eternally. This gets complicated, but best way i explain all this is through video game analogies bc that's ironically the best language we have. You can play different games, but it's still you. But, what happens in your mind, your attitudes, even your feelings, etc. are different per game. But the genres you pick, characters you pick, playstyle, those you play with, are different, but still you. Stop thinking of the becoming dual/one part... i mean, maybe don't stop, but also realize how important it is you are you. What character are you infinitely? Only you can answer that... no spiritual teacher can answer that for you.   

[Anahata]

If the 'imaginary person aka ego' dies (to not be confused with physical death) before the moment the natural physical death occurs, well, baby baby, guess what happens? God's Will in action. Of course. Paradise. Whatever God's Will consciously decides Paradise is. After all God gets to customize it however it wants. It might as well be choosing to experience bathing in infinite love for 'centuries' and dreaming up perfect worlds with no pain of any kind, just Goodness, or it might play with itself reuniting as divine feminine and divine masculine Gods in an eternal paradise, living as One, with no suffering whatsoever. Living as One, conscious of the fact that they are God itself, in love with itself, making love to itself in the most divine & ecstatic ways, boundless affection, absolute oneness, lineration, endless nurturing, infinite love, infinite ecstasy, infinite goodness. 

It is doable while on 'Earth' as well. There is no limit, the idea that we are human is the limit. Or the idea that being human means what we've been taught it means. Human = God = Love We do not have to wait until then to experience this, we are already God. Oh God ? ❤

Edited May 28, 2021 by Anahata

[Shin]

 

[look_inside]

Thank you folks for your responses. Very appreciated. OTOH none really got to the actual questions other than very indirectly. This is not a surprise as these topics are by their very nature convoluted...

Good news is: I watched Leo's video on awakening and the "how to" of it. And he talked about the process of "separation" where we let go of our fake self and realize that our true self is something very different: emptiness. And that this separation process must be followed by a process of re-integration where the two things (our fake and real selves) come back together, but this time in a form where we realize our true nature. And while integrated, we can again experience all the same things in a life that we did before we began our work, but we can now enjoy these things with a sense of detachment. So this is the best of both worlds, we might say.

So the "post attachment" life is not one that is permanently  devoid of all the people and things we love. Rather it is re-connected with them but in a different way.

I have a feeling most of the answers to the questions I have, or will have, can be found in this video material. So I'll need to continue to work my way through it.

Now I gotta get back to the work of putting my attention on attention.... : )

 

   

Edited May 30, 2021 by look_inside
grammar