Why don't my friends invite me?

[fopylo]

@Arcangelo Yeah man this was the whole purpose of this - to test them. But those kids are still gonna be kinda friendly to me at school, and it's not as if we had some fight or something.

[Eph75]

@fopylo

Apologies for my lengthy replies, meaning a lot to interpret and consume. 

You're trying to figure out what the solution is. This implies that there is something wrong, something that needs fixing. What if there's nothing that is "wrong" and nothing that needs fixing?

We're too busy trying to control what is, and that creates a sense of "wrongness".

This neither implies continuing as you do, with unfulfilling friendships, nor does it imply cutting ties with such friends.

What if we had no needs for things being one way or the other, and we just did things at the spur of the moment, not based on judgment of what is wrong or what is rights, e.g. who calls whom, when, why or why not. Instead doing for the simple reason that we can, not wanting something as a result or in return, or trying to get rid of something that we don't desire. 

In that very moment we can enjoy ourselves, we are free, and we have the freedom to choose what experiences we want to fill our reality with. 

Those kind of friendships might bring something in that moment, but that something my get over-shadowed by some other phenomena that doesn't live in the "now", such as expectations.

I get that this is a bit of a stretch, maybe too much, maybe too soon, but it will make sense later.

Content refer to the tangible going-ons that you can observe. Structure is what phenomena are at play and how these interconnect as a mesh of influencing factors, in you, in them, cultural, interpersonal and so on, and how that dictates the going-ons.

Switching from what is going on to the observing of those structures, figuring out what they may be, and how they are at play allows for gaining deeper understanding of self, of others, and of the circumstances that unfold, and this allow us to redefine how we relate to what is going on. 

For the sake of the example, imagine if you saw that friendship as a social experiment, you would find great pleasure in the observing of what takes place, why you feel like you do, why they behave how the do, and you could tweak your behavior for the sole reason of examining how the friend responds. It would be rewarding, and you would find out aspects of that friendship you otherwise wouldn't. There is no right or wrong here. Just finding more, out of curiosity of being. 

Same example but you are looking to fulfill a need, a need of feeling accepted and included, and you focusing on there being something wrong leads you to think that they're doing something wrong, something selfish. There is a problem and that problem is usually found externally to ourselves, shifting focus and responsibility away from self, and as a result you cannot control that problem and you can't fix your unmet need, since it's about them. There's something wrong, for sure, and you ain't it. 

These two cases represents focusing on understanding of structure vs. getting caught up in the content of what's going on. 

The latter results in frustration, disappointment, anger, resentment, sadness, and so on. 

The former results in curiosity and sense of reward as you expand your understanding of what is taking place.

Notice how going the one or the other route can be a choice of yours, when becoming aware of such aspects. When unaware, we're unbeknownst entangled with the content. 

The suggestion if any, would be to deliberately forcing yourself to switching to a higher awareness in your interpersonal relationships and start observing these kind of phenomena.

This doesn't mean that you can't choose to or not to continue spending time with these friends. You can still cut ties, if you want to, but it wouldn't be the result of getting lost in content and reacting towards content, but for much deeper reasons. And that's in a sense what matters most, becoming increasingly aware and understanding of yourself and why the reality you make up for yourself looks the way it does. And then start redefining that reality. 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Eph75

[Arcangelo]

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Arcangelo Yeah man this was the whole purpose of this - to test them. But those kids are still gonna be kinda friendly to me at school, and it's not as if we had some fight or something.

I know exactly what you mean. I cut almost all my friends out of my life. And it wasn't like we had a fight or something. I just realize they were not worth it. Time spent with shitty friends is time not spent with good friends. They didn't deserve me, they were losers and they were dragging me down.

[fopylo]

@Eph75 

Dude no no no, your replies are very great and there's nothing to say sorry for. I really want to thank you for continuing to help me understand this fundamental topic. You have no idea how much this means to me. I feel like I'm learning life from the beginning. Also, you're wise as fuck so that just makes it better. It really does take me a long time to digest what you write.

Ohh so you mean that the "solution" is just to live normally, freely, and that the suffering comes from having those expectations and rules of needing friends? So like the goal is that we choose what experience we want to fill our reality with, without feeling any need for a certain outcome and expectation, and thus friendship is just a certain type of experience out of the infinite experiences you can choose?
Correct me if I'm wrong

On 5/31/2021 at 11:38 PM, Eph75 said:

you would find great pleasure in the observing of what takes place, why you feel like you do, why they behave how the do, and you could tweak your behavior for the sole reason of examining how the friend responds. It would be rewarding, and you would find out aspects of that friendship you otherwise wouldn't. There is no right or wrong here. Just finding more, out of curiosity of being.

Yeah, so having deep friendships like the example you gave is what I really want.

It still feels like a need, but I also understand on the experiential level what you mean by being free and this certain approach to friendships. It's sort of like the friendships I had as a child. I didn't feel like I needed  them (sometimes I would even leave them) but those were indeed one of my best friendships I've ever had. Many aspects of spirituality are playing in being a child, and those types of friendships is what I ultimately want for my future self (more like from now on). But I am still on the level that I have some rules about it and that I need them.

Dude, I must have told you, I am a high-school senior just about to graduate from high school. The people in my school are people that I've known for 6-12 years, and after that we must go serve in the military and we will be all spread out. I feel like this thought overwhelms a bit and that's probably one of the reasons I am yearning for experiencing friendships like when I was a child. I want to exhaust the time left for experiencing that with some of those people.

On 5/31/2021 at 11:38 PM, Eph75 said:

The suggestion if any, would be to deliberately forcing yourself to switching to a higher awareness in your interpersonal relationships and start observing these kind of phenomena.

And how do I develop this higher awareness in my interpersonal relationships and how will it take effect in practicality?

I also didn't quite understand the content vs structure ?

On 5/31/2021 at 11:38 PM, Eph75 said:

You can still cut ties, if you want to, but it wouldn't be the result of getting lost in content and reacting towards content, but for much deeper reasons

So I guess you're saying that cutting ties because I'm not receiving the acceptance I feel I need - won't work (in making things better). I guess by 'deeper reasons' you mean it doesn't come from hate or from a reaction but rather a conscious decision.

Man thanks again for putting the effort into your messages. I feel like I'm starting to understand better

[Eph75]

I'm glad that you find some value ?

On 2021-06-01 at 11:42 PM, fopylo said:

Ohh so you mean that the "solution" is just to live normally, freely, and that the suffering comes from having those expectations and rules of needing friends?

Oh yes! And, let's not limit this to friends, include all other aspects in life as well. Expectations that things should be according to preconceived ideas, and reality not matching up with those ideas, is the source of suffering.

Remove the expectations and what is, just "is", without judgement, not good, bad, right nor wrong.

On 2021-06-01 at 11:42 PM, fopylo said:

Yeah, so having deep friendships like the example you gave is what I really want.

Notice how that approach in the example is all about you, and not at all about them. You can do this with people that you otherwise would have labeled as "friend", "stranger", "selfish" or even "enemy". This is something that you create, by yourself, for yourself, independently of the other. They don't have to agree to this, or know it's happening. 

In that process, you bring a different self to that interaction with other. Perhaps you get a different relationship as a bonus. Maybe not. Doesn't matter, that becomes secondary.

On 2021-06-01 at 11:42 PM, fopylo said:

And how do I develop this higher awareness in my interpersonal relationships and how will it take effect in practicality?

Awareness is happening right now, isn't it? You're open to new concepts and aspects that you didn't think about before.

Take this increased awareness with you into your interpersonal interactions, and try to see people and what is taking place through new eyes, through a different kind of lens, allows you to see new things. It needs practice. Without practice it takes you nowhere.

• Become aware of something new, or a different way of thinking of something old (e.g. through this forum)
• Set intention to explore, with a curious mindset (drop judgement, labels and preconceived notions)
• Get out there and practice, rinse-and-repeat
• Awareness gradually increases as a result
• A new kind of appreciation magically emerges, through the increased complexity of ones understanding

 

On 2021-06-01 at 11:42 PM, fopylo said:

So I guess you're saying that cutting ties because I'm not receiving the acceptance I feel I need - won't work (in making things better). I guess by 'deeper reasons' you mean it doesn't come from hate or from a reaction but rather a conscious decision.

Spot on.

Cutting ties without deeper understanding changes nothing. New situations will come along where you'll be subjected to similar circumstances, triggering similar responses. This is being reactive towards, and getting lost in the content of what is going-on.

On 2021-06-01 at 11:42 PM, fopylo said:

I also didn't quite understand the content vs structure ?

The content is what is observable, on the surface, tangible, can be touched, felt, or seen, for example someones behavior and the emotional responses that behavior creates, e.g. someone acted inappropriately and someone else got really pissed off, and it all ended up in a fight. Content is what typically gets all the focus, and what we use when deciding how to respond.

The underlying structures are what creates the behavior in the first place, and adds infinite complexity to something that looked simple on the surface. Add in factors like social programming through childhood and into adulthood, add cultural aspects, add past experiences, add the correlation between behavior, individuals and situations, and how different situations and/or interactions with different people causes the same individual to react in very different ways. How these factors influence the other person, but also how these factors influence you. What are your triggers, where do they come from, and why is it important to you. What are your values and beliefs, and where do they come from, and how are they creating obstacles in your pursuit for what you see as achievements?

Structures can be and often are interconnected and interdependent, creating complex relationships between infinite number of factors.

Content fixation removes the complexity of what is happening. It makes it easy for us to use our biases to quickly assess and place judgement on that happening. This allows us to be autonomous and preserve energy but also to respond faster, making us think that we have relevant information to act upon.

This is only being reactive towards circumstances, and circumstances we can't control. We will get caught up with constant navigation of content. Since content stem from complexity, we can't predict what is going to happen, so we can't effectively come up with solutions to problems, as a new version of the same category of problems keeps popping up.

"Quitting" often becomes the last resort: the escape from circumstances or situations that we can't control, and which is causing us suffering.

Switching to observing what structures are at play, allows us to make a much more complex assessment of what is going on. It allows us to recognize patterns and complex interactions between factors. And it allows us to choose to react in new ways that may cause others to respons in more favorable ways.

In the case of your friend, who got labeled "selfish" in the process, you don't really know what drives him (structures), but you react towards his "selfish behavior" (content), without paying attention to what drives you (structures).

What's calling for our attention is content, and that's why it's so easy to get stuck/lost within content. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Eph75

[fopylo]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, Eph75 said:

Oh yes! And, let's not limit this to friends, include all other aspects in life as well. Expectations that things should be according to preconceived ideas, and reality not matching up with those ideas, is the source of suffering.

Remove the expectations and what is, just "is", without judgement, not good, bad, right nor wrong.

In some way it seems kind of passive. What if I want to change my situation?

On 6/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, Eph75 said:

Notice how that approach in the example is all about you, and not at all about them. You can do this with people that you otherwise would have labeled as "friend", "stranger", "selfish" or even "enemy".

Perhaps you didn't mean friendship but rather some kind of neutral connection (which isn't positive or negative)? It almost reminds me of the relationships I had with those labels as a child.

 

I think I better understood content vs structure, thanks

[Julian Fernando]

Hey man! This is an interesting phenomena you are describing and I can relate to it because it was EXACTLY what I experienced back when I was still in school. I remember there being these peer groups that formed and I wanted to be included in them. I always felt like I had to make a conscious effort for other people to notice me and I was frustrated because of it. I have done some major changes in my life and looking back here is what I have learned:

Firstly I realized that I was being needy. I did not see the relationship as something I was adding value to, I saw it as something that needed to give me something. By changing my focus on genuinely adding value and giving without wanting anything in return everything and I mean EVERYTHING changed. The key I found is to learn to give myself to validation that I have been looking for in those relationships, develop the wholeness within myself and from this place of being my energy became one of sharing and adding value rather than taking. Now people want to be in my presence and love to be around me because I focus on having fun and making myself and them feel great in the process. Hope it makes sense.

[Eph75]

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

In some way it seems kind of passive. What if I want to change my situation?

What would stop you from changing your situation?

You have the freedom to change anything.

The reason for change though defines the game - whether you change out of lack of met desire and an attempt to avoid suffering - Or - via acceptance of what is, not being driven by such deficiency needs, instead with abosolute freedom, to shift, to change, to flux and flow with what is.

The difference is monumental.

Detachment doesn't prevent doing. It allows for doing and maintaining freedom, not from the need to, but for the sake of doing. Because you can. And you can do the same thing as you would have before detachment, but the meaning of that doing will have changed. Or the meaning has gone away, in which case you wouldn't miss that doing.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Eph75

[fopylo]

6 hours ago, Julian Fernando said:

Firstly I realized that I was being needy. I did not see the relationship as something I was adding value to, I saw it as something that needed to give me something. By changing my focus on genuinely adding value and giving without wanting anything in return everything and I mean EVERYTHING changed. The key I found is to learn to give myself to validation that I have been looking for in those relationships, develop the wholeness within myself and from this place of being my energy became one of sharing and adding value rather than taking. Now people want to be in my presence and love to be around me because I focus on having fun and making myself and them feel great in the process. Hope it makes sense.

That is quite beautiful. But let me be brutally honest. Why the fuck would I want to seek a relationship in order for me to add value? What is my gain? Doesn't it make more sense to seek a friendship/relationship because you can gain something from it? Otherwise why seek it if it doesn't add something to you?

[fopylo]

@Eph75 Very insightful holy shit man! Thanks for putting the effort into helping me understand life better 

[Eph75]

@fopylo

When breaking down what @Julian Fernando wrote you get this:

1. Julian gained insight/awareness of him "demanding" something from others is not for him to ask for, and that it makes him "needy", and others perceiving him as "needy".
2. A "switch" in his sense-making "flipped", and his way of perceiving what was happening was "upgraded" to allow for a more complex, more nuanced view of what was going on.
3. This led to the conclusion that Julian wanted to "bring" to others rather than "demanding" from others.
4. This bringing of value dramatically shifted the dynamics between him and others, causing others to respond in new ways.
5. The changed dynamics brought some value back to Julian, without him needing it, or him demanding it.

11 hours ago, fopylo said:

Why the fuck would I want to seek a relationship in order for me to add value? What is my gain?

Notice "I", "me" and "my gain" in that statement, and that this is coming from an egocentric world view. There's nothing bad with an egocentric world view, it's just a developmental stage that we can become aware of and move past, into a later stage that we equally so can move past, and so on, and so on.

The gain for Julian was "a lot", this insight and the following experience essentially upgraded him as a human being, becoming better at finding enjoyment in life, and this by turning away from what he thought he needed and instead trying something radically different.

With different world views, and different stages of development, our values shift, and from a later stage of development this will make sense, as much sense as our bodies breathing air to live.

All of this is much more about pushing beyond our current limits and understanding, with curiosity, to find what that "beyond" is. Becoming aware of our current beliefs, and decoupling the tight grip on those beliefs so that we easier can explore and find what will be our next "more loosely coupled" beliefs. The more open-minded we can be, the easier, quicker and less painful this process will be.

This is "structure", and this is where we make deliberate developmental gains.

A can of yummy worms, this is 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Eph75

[fopylo]

@Eph75 what  did he gain though? If his focus is on adding value, then what about the wholeness and self-acceptance that he needs? How can adding value to others automatically make you whole and fulfilled inside? You need to build yourself up before you can start giving

[Eph75]

@fopylo

Gah, very lengthy again. 

Wholeness and self-acceptance comes from within. You won't find that with others. Looking for it in others is a wasted venture. You need to reach that point where you get that insight and turn the focus from the external, to the internal, towards self.

Without needs you can freely give, and that is giving.

With needs comes the bargaining with people, making implicit deals, I give this and I expect something in return. The other isn't aware of this deal. If he/she was it would look more like a business agreement. That's not giving. That is trading. And there will be expectations that those trades return something that you value. If not, expectations are not met. Desires are unmet. Resentment happens. Or maybe you'd choose not to make that deal.

Giving without expectation of getting something in return, is the ultimate reward. You still do get something from giving, but it lives in you. 

Notice that having others noticing that giving, still can be you looking for a return from others, others admiration, people looking up to you and thinking that you are a great person, or some other benefit you gain. 

Instead, imagine that you do someone a favor or help in secret, without anyone knowing or noticing what you did. Don't you still feel good? But no one knows that it was you that did it. You still feel good. That's because you give others, and give yourself something in that process. 

Technically speaking, just to connect some dots, all of this is happening on a chemical level in our brains. And technically we become junkies craving the different substances released in our brains (feel-good hormones such as oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine, endorphin, and also adrenaline, but strangely even the stress hormone cortisol) . That's why we become so attached and crave pursuing things, and why we feel good when we get that which we set out to get, but soon after the feeling goes away and we need a new fix, looking for more. Over time a junkie starts feeling increasingly worse when not getting those fixes. And what was "normal" feels "bad". Actual drugs do the same thing, they cause excessive amounts of these substances to be released. So junkie is really the right word here. And in that sense, what we benefit from is a detox, breaking an unheathy addictive behavior 

Building yourself up needs to happen within you. If you look to others to give you something that you think is missing, in order for this to happen, then you're on a path that you will, sooner or later, realize has strayed you away from a "truer" path. 

That true path lies within. Always.

Also, looking to the external to find something that is missing implies there's something actually missing. That idea of there being something missing lives only within your thoughts, and ideas of how things ought to be.

There's actually nothing missing, we all have the same inherent potential, and it's more-so a matter of not seeing "right", seeing things through a distorted lens, or even a broken lens. Switching to seeing through a less distorted lens is something that is within our own powers, but it implies us shifting something within us, if only for a moment, so that we can get that "a-ha, holy-shit, why-didn't-I-see-that-before" experience.

@Julian Fernando might want to answer more precisely what the actual gains were, but he did say that the relationship changed to the better when he showed up not from a position of needing, but a position of giving (adding value) .

Exactly what those gains turn out being, matters more from the "business agreement" POV, trying to match up quality and quantity of giving with quality and quantity of returns.

The externally given return could be something unexpected. That return can be relative to the others ability to give. That return could be nothing. 

You still get that internal reward such as you would have gotten when giving to an unbeknownst receiver. Become aware of that. And become aware of how having expectations and following disappointments overshadow that internal reward, as cortisol, the stress hormone, disables the other feel-good hormones.

Looking at it in this way, in a less distorted way, through a less distorted lens, seeing what is actually taking place without letting our desires muddying our views, allows us to see that business transaction taking place, that trading happening, and how that has become conflated with "giving". 

Side-note: understanding our brains and how these hormones affect us is generally good knowledge to have. There are a lot of books on the subject, as with everything, and one easy-going easy read could be Habits of a Happy Brain written by Loretta Graziano Breuning. 

Side-note 2: Imagine what other distorted or broken lenses we might have, that cause us to misperceive what we think of as being true or what reality is. Rabbit hole Alice, t'is a rabbit hole. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Eph75

[Julian Fernando]

@fopylo Great question. To make it short and more easily understandable, the only way to feel love is to give love. Let that sink in. At first it may seem counter intuitive, yet the more you experience the truth of this in your direct experience, the more success you will have. The giver is blessed, because the act of giving in itself feels good. Moreover, the more you focus on giving and adding value the more you get in return.

[fopylo]

@Eph75

I'll try to reply faster, sorry for keeping you waiting long. By the way I read what you write like at least twice and it takes me a long time to go through it lol, so I'm preparing lot's of energy and focus to go through what you wrote and I can't do this just whenever. I need to be focused and in the right mind.

So then what is the purpose of having "relationship/friendship goals"? It's almost like you're saying to instead change it to "giving goals". In that case I won't have goals such as getting a girlfriend in the next 3 years, keeping in touch with friends from high-school, developing friendships in the camp. It would be more like "what can I do to give this girl, what can I do to make the kids from high school feel good about themselves, what can I give those people in the camp". It can be interpreted as being a nice guy, and also there is a lack of objection. How can I expect to form any relationship without the objective of forming one? I believe relationships are important and I can't just be "fuck it, I'll just give and whatever. I'll aim to feel the love in me rather than aim to connect to people, I'll be detached from them".

On 6/9/2021 at 7:16 AM, Eph75 said:

You still feel good. That's because you give others, and give yourself something in that process. 

What do I give myself? Self-love?

On 6/9/2021 at 7:16 AM, Eph75 said:

Technically speaking, just to connect some dots, all of this is happening on a chemical level in our brains. And technically we become junkies craving the different substances released in our brains (feel-good hormones such as oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine, endorphin, and also adrenaline, but strangely even the stress hormone cortisol) . That's why we become so attached and crave pursuing things, and why we feel good when we get that which we set out to get, but soon after the feeling goes away and we need a new fix, looking for more. Over time a junkie starts feeling increasingly worse when not getting those fixes. And what was "normal" feels "bad". Actual drugs do the same thing, they cause excessive amounts of these substances to be released. So junkie is really the right word here. And in that sense, what we benefit from is a detox, breaking an unhealthy addictive behavior 

Well then why in the world do our brains produce these chemicals if it ruins us eventually?? How can it serve us if the great feeling comes from this self-love?

On 6/9/2021 at 7:16 AM, Eph75 said:

Exactly what those gains turn out being, matters more from the "business agreement" POV, trying to match up quality and quantity of giving with quality and quantity of returns.

This sounds exactly like the opposite of what you were saying. It seems like an expectation - "I see how much you give me, and I'll match it up with how much I give you back in return".

 

@Julian Fernando

On 6/10/2021 at 10:10 PM, Julian Fernando said:

the only way to feel love is to give love. Let that sink in. At first it may seem counter intuitive, yet the more you experience the truth of this in your direct experience, the more success you will have. The giver is blessed, because the act of giving in itself feels good. Moreover, the more you focus on giving and adding value the more you get in return.

Ok, so now thinking about it you might be right that I never really felt love when I needed/expected it, in fact I felt quite bad, so you got that point. But from the very few moments that I remember experiencing love, I don't remember that I was necessarily "giving" something. I know for sure that I wasn't expecting anything but I don't think I gave something. It was more like the other person did something and I was just in a different state of being, not needing. I might really be wrong and probably not accurate in my memory, or perhaps I am just understanding it in an inaccurate way. It's as if it had to do also with the participant/s of the situation. Perhaps I am not aware of all the types of "giving" that I have emanated in those moments..

Edited June 11, 2021 by fopylo

[Eph75]

A couple of replies at the end of this thread has gone missing for whatever reason 

On 2021-06-11 at 10:39 PM, fopylo said:

So then what is the purpose of having "relationship/friendship goals"?

You just made a "getting desire" into a "giving desire". Underneath that "giving desire" there is still a "getting desire", it is a means to some end. 

Stretch further. Why does there need to be a purpose at all?

What is, is inherently purposeless, or meaningless in the sense that what is, is devoid of meaning. Purpose arises from the meaning we create for ourselves through our thoughts. 

Our minds supply us with sense-making, our ability to make sense of what is happening, and based on this sense-making we create meaning and purpose. 

What the purpose and meaning we see in things is, is a product of the way we think.

In that way, a dysfunctional, deficiency-driven person will create a sense of purpose that creates a drive to meet those deficiency needs. This happens unconsciously. 

Personal development and developmental growth will inevitably cause us to increase the complexity of our sense-making, and as a result, our values shifts at the same time as the purpose and meaning we place upon existence changes.

This is a process though, not a choice. It's  about becoming aware of, and able to see a different path, so that you can set one foot upon that path. Then take a first step, the beginning of a journey, and the offering of a new perspective. 

On 2021-06-11 at 10:39 PM, fopylo said:

What do I give myself?

Go out and try giving unconditionally, without having a receiver that knows/notices that you gave. Don't stay around to secretly observe their reactions. Just do and leave. Notice the feeling, and notice that this happens without expecting any return, without affirmation, or the knowing of other. It lives only inside you. Self-contained. 

On 2021-06-11 at 10:39 PM, fopylo said:

Well then why in the world do our brains produce these chemicals if it ruins us eventually??

They ensured our survival in the past, in a world where wallowing in self-love and introspection got you devoured by some saber-toothed tiger or other creature with sharp teeth, or, you starving to death due to lack of desire to collect food. 

Those hormones don't ruin us. They just are. It is our ego and our thoughts, the dysfunctional meaning and purpose we make up for ourselves that mess us up.

In the world of today where those hormones don't serve the same purpose, we don't have to struggle for safety, food and survival, and we're left with unfavorable mental disorders as a result from getting stuck inside our heads. 

On 2021-06-11 at 10:39 PM, fopylo said:

This sounds exactly like the opposite of what you were saying. It seems like an expectation - "I see how much you give me, and I'll match it up with how much I give you back in return".

Drop the expectations. But to be able to so, you have to manage your desires, and maybe even detach from some of those desires.

One way to gain perspective and new insight could be unconditional giving. But you don't have to give at all. "Having to" still implies there being a deficiency need at play. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Eph75

[fopylo]

@Eph75

Thank you very much man! You are full of amazing insights and I think I have a better image of how this works. I won't try to achieve friendships and relationships but rather give them value as if the relationships (and 'being on the same team') is already the case.

[Eph75]

@fopylo

You're very welcome, I'm glad to help, wherever help can be found. 

All of this got really condensed, and this really is a life journey of learning and insights, so just keep at it and keep in mind that there are a-million-and-one ways that our mind can and will trick ourselves while practicing/doing these kind of things, so stepping back, questioning why we think and react like we do, is warranted more than a few times ever day