Why don't my friends invite me?

[fopylo]

Every time I'm going to have lunch with a friend it's always me who's taking the initiative. Never (except maybe like twice) had someone taken the initiative to have lunch with me. But the thing is that the say yes when I invite them, and it doesn't seem as though they're doing me a favor, but rather cooperating. But still, why am I the one to always take the initiative? I'm telling you, I've tried leaving them for like a week or two and they didn't come back to me. I thought they just needed some space, but then at least will sometime recognize this space and decide to invite me. But yeah, they still have no problem coming when I invite them.

However, there are also other kinds of "friends" with whom I speak to in school and I've known them for quite some years, but I'm slowly starting to rethink those friendships. They are nice but when the rubber hits the rode they disappear. They always can't have lunch with me (I wasn't nagging them. Maybe 3-4 times asked them, the said they can't and didn't ever initiate in return) and they never come to my concerts and meet one on one. Those people are still good friends of mine. It's just that it's quite bothering and confusing me why they never can/want to meet with me and take the initiative. In fact, I'm quite somewhere in the center of this "group" of friends (there tend to joke a lot around me about me in a friendly way and I make them laugh and bring interest into the conversation).

So yeah, why do friends not invite me but act very friendly to me at school? (it doesn't seem even like they're faking it) Why do I feel kinda lonely outside of school, but in school I feel closer to the center within some groups of people? It is really confusing me and I don't want to make radical decisions of cutting out people when I might lack understanding

[intotheblack]

Create a new friendship group outside of school.  They sound like the typical flakey people of today who put no effort into their relationships.  Go meet new people. 
 

[Preety_India]

If they don't value your presence, you shouldn't think too much about them.

 

[fopylo]

@intotheblack @Preety_India But like I said, they do value my presence at school. They don't put much effort, but a very few of them are good friends (let's just say better friends) and those are the ones who are cool with meeting but never initiate themselves.

[Windappreciator]

I would look for new friends of there is a lack of reciprocality.

You don't have to exclude yourself from them, just don't engage that much.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Harlen Kelly]

@fopylo Why do you care? Would you care if you were present to the moment experiencing peace? 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[fopylo]

@Harlen Kelly Yes, because not everyone is super highly consciousness like some people here on this forum. If I was then I guess so, but I want to evolve to this stage by taking steps. I certainly don't want to excuse myself out of filling the love and belonging tier of Maslow's Pyramid

[Windappreciator]

@Harlen Kelly what do you got to say to that, heh?

[Osaid]

They might be introverts or reclusive

[Harlen Kelly]

@fopylo It's a lot easier to get friends and form deep meaningful connections when you are at peace internally and exude positive energy. 

[fopylo]

@Osaid Makes sense, most of them are like that. But it still is a bit weird that they do meet with some friends of theirs and don't initiate with me. Don't think it has to do much

[fopylo]

@Harlen Kelly Can certainly agree that I am at more peace when being around people since I got on this journey of developing inner peace through mindfulness and meditation and other videos of Leo. It is going smoothly and I feel at ease and that's why I'm more chill with people, and that's the reason why I initiate. While on the other hand they don't

[Eph75]

@fopylo

Also, some people are very much about themselves and not about others. They might get involved and get their needs met by others, or choosing to socialize with others who fulfill their needs in some specific way. 

Notice how you showing interest in them would fulfill such a need. So they can both value you, for fulfilling the need, at the same time as they might not look for more contact, potentially getting even greater fulfillment elsewhere, in other ways. 

This wouldn't mean that there's anything wrong, or anyone doing you wrong. 

Also notice how you do make this about you, and you looking for something similar. Don't take that in the wrong way. It's not labeling that as something bad, but instead just something that "just is".

The outcome of these kind of relationships is usually that there exists unmet needs at one end. But that does not imply that someone is doing something wrong, gather that there is an equation that is out of balance. 

Relationships is much about finding balance in that interrelational exchange that we have with people. And that simple means that we would have to shift focus and allow for other relationships to be found, or emerge, where that equation is in balance.

Worst case scenario is assigning blame for this phenomena onto that someone other with whom things don't seem to balance up. There's no one to blame, and sometimes we try too hard, and refuse to gently and without resent letting go where needed and allow ourselves to seek balance in other ways.

It's an intricate thing though, as most everyone is looking for something, and that something fulfilling a personal, ego driven need.

[fopylo]

@Eph75 So basically you're saying that they don't fulfill my need because they simply don't have a desire for it? Because they are focused on something else which already makes them feel whole? But isn't it a little selfish that I give them this need but they don't return it back? You said relationships is about finding the right balance. So how can I have a good relationship with those people? (they are kinda my friends. Some to different degrees but I do like their company). It is odd to have a one sided relationship in which I fulfill someone's need and get it back from someone else, while the person I am giving it to is fulfilling someone/something else's need

[Eph75]

@fopylo

Well, stopping for a moment, to look deeper, this phenomena isn't very strange. 

Looking back at yourself, and trying to be open-minded, you yourself is looking for that connection to fulfill a need that is about you, essentially to feel good about yourself, and them not meeting it is about you. So that too is selfish from that point of view. 

This is where "why" becomes interesting. Why it is important to get these people's approval and interest in return.

The answer isn't to be found with them, it is to be found within you. We tend to externalize perceived problems, which in practice means shunning, pushing away, and the avoidance of full responsibility for who we are and reality as we experience it. 

The saying "don't go to the hardware store to buy milk" comes in mind. You wouldn't expect to go to the hardware store to fulfill your need to get some milk. It's not about the hardware store not being interested in meeting needs, it's just not built in a way that can meet your need, and that is obvious for you, that going there won't satisfy you. 

For the sake of my previous example, for a minute, think of people as different kind of stores, that are capable of offering different kind of services and goods. You wouldn't expect some of those deli-store-like-friends to be capable of meeting all your needs, and you wouldn't expect all of those to be capable of meeting one specific need. You would select different stores for different purposes. 

Although, there are some amazing stores out there that just seem to have it all, and it's nice to go to one place that fulfills all our needs. It saves time, frustration and so on, and we think of them as "great stores". 

But fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with neither of the stores. It also serves us not to label those stores as good or bad, and best is just recognizing what means serve our needs. 

So this is all about us. I'm not saying it isn't possible to transcend this ego-centric way of being, but I am saying that this is what the absolute majority of people are doing and that there is nothing wrong with that. This is happening unconsciously and at so many levels of different complexity, that even high conscious people experience blindside when it comes to ego. And so even you have underlying needs that you are constantly looking to fulfill, which in nature is ego-centric. Notice that ego-centrisism from this point of view isn't a bad thing, it just "is". Also pursuing fulfilling other people's needs usually comes from a need of self-fulfillment of some kind, not uncommonly dysfunctional in nature. 

The awareness of these aspects is calling out for us, to gain better understanding of ourselves, and what it is that we are looking for.

Friendship is about investing time. Sometimes we invest too much, too often and too intensively into investments that just won't have dividends. Barking up the wrong trees. Desperately looking for milk in the wrong places. 

So understanding of self, our needs, and finding what brings balance is sometimes the better choice than trying to rebalance that which is not in our sphere of influence, e.g. others needs and how they misalign with our own needs. 

It's worth taking a second to digest this and contemplate how choosing this route makes everything less of an attachment to us, and how it calls for us to explore ourselves more, how we relate to things, since what sense/meaning we apply to situations take place inside us. Less attachment allows for more freedom to "be", and to move, flux and flow with the unfolding around us.

Not to dismiss friends, and there being something that you do value in their friendship, focusing on that and absorbing that instead of asking and expecting something from them that they are not capable of supplying might be a good idea. After all, there is something there that makes you say that they are friends, right? And that's not them not including you, it's something else. Find that. Maximize that. If there is no "it", why would you call it "friendship" and not just "acquaintance". 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Eph75

[fopylo]

Man, I've read it a few times. Very deep and insightful. From what I understood you say that everything could be good as it already is (regarding my friendships) but it's just that I'm trying to get my needs fulfilled from them. So like, me fulfilling their need could be something that I could enjoy (the things which sparks the friendship) and the part of me that also needs this need fulfilled is something that I can fulfill for myself and I'm just projecting this problem onto others?

My ego is still not that highly developed, and like you said, there's nothing bad about it but I still want it fulfilled, because at some point I will become burnt-out from giving and not receiving (which is why I basically started this thread). But then rises the question - What need do friendships actually fulfill if I can fulfill it alone? My assumption is that they give me similar benefits, just that friendships could fulfill it quicker and with attachment. But then what purpose do those friends serve?

You said the reason I have friends is because there's something in them that I value. Yes, this might be true for a few, and that's why I've been slowly loosening ties with others who I just feel aren't really fulfilling my needs. The friends that I do meet with share common interests like me, and maybe like one I'm just friendly with because we talk a bit about life. The ones that I'm loosening ties with are those which I feel they are either distancing from me or that I just feel like they are slowing my growth (most cases). But you said to maximize this "thing" I find connecting. For the purpose of having a fun time or fulfilling a need? I could also "maximize it" with the ones with whom I'm loosening my ties, and there is a reason why I chose to loosen ties. It can't be sustainable.

[Eph75]

@fopylo

Let's just say that raising awareness of what needs drive us makes our choices easier, and changes how we relate to things.

Detachment from needs isn't a choice, it's something we grow towards over time. Detachment from some needs will be easy as we become increasingly aware of them. Other needs we might never detach from, nor might we want to, but increased awareness allows us to better navigate them, and not allowing them to have a negative impact upon us. 

Careful though. Notice how the lack of detachment can become a deficiency need in and of itself. 

Thinking differently is key, and, you're already doing that, here and now. Stopping for a moment to introspect and becoming able to make new sense of something old, and to create new, deeper, more complex meaning IS the essence of developmental growth.

In each friendship category you mention, there is a need that you're either trying to fulfill, or that is getting fulfilled. Learning to see, and better understand those needs is a prerequisite to making new sense.

You mention growth. 

What if the most fundamental need we have is to grow? And what if the deficiency needs that we experience is just noise that is calling out to us for the deliberate facilitation of growth. What if we could address growth without first fulfilling our deficiencies, thus accelerating growth. 

If our goal shifts towards being able to make new sense, the upgrading of our sense-making processes, we can see that anything that helps us do this carry intrinsic value. This happens everywhere, especially where we experience challenges in life.

Focusing on "friends" (content) gets us stuck. Switching perspective to something like this (structure) opens infinite opportunities to explore.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Eph75

[Arcangelo]

On 5/27/2021 at 4:42 AM, fopylo said:

I'm telling you, I've tried leaving them for like a week or two and they didn't come back to me.

DUDE! That's how you test your ''friends''.

You tested them, they didn't pass. Move on and make new better friends. Or better yet: become a lone wolf who is hyper-focused on success and personal development.

 

[Applegarden8]

Here is what you do. Reach out to 10 new people. Look for people, groups of people that have common interests, or just go out and talk to people, obvserve them, see what they are like, see what they are about e.c.t. The thing is this, you simply (in a scheduled and consistent way) reach out to them and let those connections naturally evolve into something beautiful. These "friends" are but a coincident relatiinships that may or may not last, ofc you may try to fix that also, BUT, reaching out to new people is MUCH more rewarding. And also work on your own emotional intelligence, this is why observing people around you and yourself ia very imortant, you will learn very much!

[fopylo]

@Eph75

On 5/30/2021 at 1:51 AM, Eph75 said:

Focusing on "friends" (content) gets us stuck. Switching perspective to something like this (structure) opens infinite opportunities to explore.

Could you please clarify?

I'm still trying to figure out what is the solution you are suggesting. You said some very important deep stuff but I'm not managing to connect the dots of how I apply it to friendships, because you talk about detachment and becoming aware but it's hard for me to play it in my head how this will work. I've been practicing mindfulness and a lot of meditation and I might be slightly more stable, but there's still something in me that says that just fulfilling others' needs and not getting shit back would not be such a great idea (even if it means loving myself more). I'm saying this sentence from experience. I've done mindfulness practices and self love, felt more whole inside, but this situation just felt weird and not human to me. I don't want to live my life with no friends and to deceptively excuse myself out of making friends by telling myself that detachment is the solution