If the dating market is a market, then why it's not regulated,at least online dating

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Seems from here like you're overreacting to overreacting

If you actually understood the shit that women endure from men just like us, there would be no room left to leverage notions of "smartness" against them whenever they express their discontentment.

Well, I get why Wavesintheocean reacted that way and part of me is glad for the shock reaction. And part of me is envious.

Women have dealt with this objectification so much that we are able to handle it a bit better thought it’s still triggers many wounds, collective and individual. 

But it’s a bit like drinking vodka. If you only take one shot every once and a while it stings a lot and staggers you. But if you’re drinking vodka every day, you can look like you’re drinking water because you’ve acclimated to it.

And women unfortunately learn that the only way to cope and have empowerment in the face of dehumanization is to appear as rational and cool headed as possible. Otherwise no one listens and no one will take you seriously. You have to come across as a stronger and more respectable man than the man you’re debating.

So, being male, Wavesintheocean is shocked because he does experience or witness this treatment often. And he hasn’t had to learn that expressing shock and disdain will be used against him. This is how I envy him. But I’m glad for his shock.

[Harlen Kelly]

@knakoo Vaush did a video about it. 

[Applegarden8]

58 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Men are mostly seen as subjects where women are often viewed as objects. Hence the underlying assumption of this post of ‘woman as resource’.

May I add to this. I would say that objectifying is a masculine tendency that is unfortunatly expressed too much in men and women. It is usually about, well I have this, what do you have? If you are a young male you should be having this and this by 25, or I will not value you. Alot of older generation has this, conservatives especially. They will not accept you for who you are and want to be. You have to do what they were doing and have what they were having and even then, you will not be accepted as an equal. 

[RendHeaven]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, being male, Wavesintheocean

Hah WHAT 

I swear their profile said "female" a couple months ago. Hence my assumption that they were a "she."

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

This is how I envy him. But I’m glad for his shock.

I hear you 

[Jacob Morres]

 

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Well, I get why Wavesintheocean reacted that way and part of me is glad for the shock reaction. And part of me is envious.

 

hurt people hurt people

[RendHeaven]

Oh I had @WaveInTheOcean confused with @Surfingthewave haha~

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Jacob Morres said:

hurt people hurt people

I’m not glad because it hurt him. ?

I’m glad and envious that a man sees the objectification of women and is shocked and appalled. 

Partly, it makes me feel seen. Partly, it makes me jealous that he has not witnessed much of this type of thing.

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Oh I had @WaveInTheOcean confused with @Surfingthewave haha~

Oh! That makes sense.

[Jacob Morres]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I’m glad and envious that a man sees the objectification of women and is shocked and appalled. 

 

isnt being appalled a sign for a shadow aspect though? 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Jacob Morres said:

isnt being appalled a sign for a shadow aspect though? 

It could be but isn’t always. Sometimes you are just genuinely appalled by something without having that trait in your Shadow. 

Though it’s always wise to examine triggers like that. You can learn more about yourself that way. Not as to say it would necessarily turn out that he is a secret objectifier. But it can turn up many realizations.

[Emerald]

35 minutes ago, knakoo said:

Seriously ??? Where did you get that number ?

The numbers aren’t correct.

Here’s what they really are according to the CDC.

@Harlen Kelly

Edited May 27, 2021 by Emerald

[Karmadhi]

@Emerald I stand corrected. The numbers i provided were for past year sexual activity. Therefore a non virgin that has not had sex in 2 years still counts in the 1/3 ratio. Pure virgin ratio is as you say it. 

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Emerald I stand corrected. The numbers i provided were for past year sexual activity. Therefore a non virgin that has not had sex in 2 years still counts in the 1/3 ratio. Pure virgin ratio is as you say it. 

That’s about 30% of sexual inactivity for men within the past year, with a comparison between stats from the year 2000 and the year 2018. I chalk this up to everything being very online now.

But for women the stats are 19% sexual inactivity within the past year, which is a disparity but not a super extreme one.

But clearly it isn’t a “men can’t get any sex because they’re undesirable incels” problem. The majority of these sexually inactive men in the study have had sex before.

Otherwise, men and women’s average virginity loss age wouldn’t be the exact same. And there would be significant disparities in numbers of male vs female virgins when there simply isn’t.  
 

 

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@RendHeaven Without the usage of foul language, how could you infer that I am overacting? 

Your perspective on what women go through because of men is childish and juvenile. The reality is that both men and women cause each other tremendous suffering. 

Thats a very victim mentality of the mind.

How could anyone cause you suffering? You are the one projecting that other people can make you suffer, particularly emotional suffering, which is the one we are talking here.

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

If you're sexually attractive, whether male or female, you have a guaranteed place in the market. 

It is very true that both genders struggle in dating. Both genders face difficulties and suffer. Even pretty cool girls go through hard times so it is not that they have it easy. However there is 1 thing which i cannot wrap my head around, maybe you can help me.

I have noticed that when guys struggle with dating it is usually that they cannot get ANYTHING, they have 0 girls interested in them. Meanwhile girls when they struggle it is because they cannot get that 1 VERY high value guy they want and even though they have A LOT of cool guys they can get, they are not happy with them. They only want THAT 1 SPECIFIC guy. 

From my male biased mind it seems like guys complain that they are starving and have no food while girls complain that they have food but they want that great lasagna, only that will do it for them.

Thing is most of the guys the girls can get are pretty decent guys, they are not lame or shitty guys but they are not safisfied with them. They only want that specific guy. That guy sometimes is not even thattt great, it is just the idea that i want  X and dot mindset more than anyone else.

Even though i might seem like an Incel from these threads i have interacted with legit hundreds of people through my life. I am very social and have a lot of friends from both genders, from all looks levels. I notice consistently that the guys that struggle with girls usually struggle to get ANYTHING while girls struggles are about getting a very high caliber or specific guy they might want. They usually have guys into them but do not want them. Very few guys i know are very picky with girls, usually they are very good looking guys or feminine guys. Masculine guys tend to fuck anything that moves but they will not commit hahahahahaha

Edited May 28, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Harlen Kelly]

@Javfly33 So human beings don't cause emotional and physical suffering to other human beings, is that what you are implying? 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@Preety_India

It is very true that both genders struggle in dating. Both genders face difficulties and suffer. Even pretty cool girls go through hard times so it is not that they have it easy. However there is 1 thing which i cannot wrap my head around, maybe you can help me.

I have noticed that when guys struggle with dating it is usually that they cannot get ANYTHING, they have 0 girls interested in them. Meanwhile girls when they struggle it is because they cannot get that 1 VERY high value guy they want and even though they have A LOT of cool guys they can get, they are not happy with them. They only want THAT 1 SPECIFIC guy. 

From my male biased mind it seems like guys complain that they are starving and have no food while girls complain that they have food but they want that great lasagna, only that will do it for them.

Thing is most of the guys the girls can get are pretty decent guys, they are not lame or shitty guys but they are not safisfied with them. They only want that specific guy. That guy sometimes is not even thattt great, it is just the idea that i want  X and dot mindset more than anyone else.

Even though i might seem like an Incel from these threads i have interacted with legit hundreds of people through my life. I am very social and have a lot of friends from both genders, from all looks levels. I notice consistently that the guys that struggle with girls usually struggle to get ANYTHING while girls struggles are about getting a very high caliber or specific guy they might want. They usually have guys into them but do not want them. Very few guys i know are very picky with girls, usually they are very good looking guys or feminine guys. Masculine guys tend to fuck anything that moves but they will not commit hahahahahaha

Feminine attraction has to do with feelings. Feelings compel a woman to want to pair bond with a specific guy. 

And any random guy simply isn’t going to push the buttons and create the feelings that compel a woman to pair bond. It’s only that one guy that can do it.

And it’s not even that that guy is objectively the best in any category. He may be objectively average or below average across the board. 

But female attraction is non-objective and very specific. 

Women generally don’t have strong sexual or romantic cravings towards men in general. It’s always that one particular guy.

When a woman falls for a man, it is super special to her. She craves him and his humanity in particular.

So, the way you’re biased is because you’re looking at female sexuality through the lens of male sexuality.

Men crave women in general. A man wants sex in general. And it is high reward and a challenge to get.

Women don’t crave men in general. Women don’t crave sex in general. It’s always specific. So, women’s access to sex/men in general (which men see as enviable) is a currency that doesn’t confer value to us. It’s low reward for us. It doesn’t have any pleasure or libidinal charge to it. 

But the feelings about that one guy are just overwhelmingly intoxicating to the point of obsession... rending your garments level of spicy hot desire. And every other guy feels meh.

Seriously, if “feminine desire” were a drug it would be everyone’s favorite. It feels so good to gush over just that one guy.

And again, it isn’t because he’s got some laundry list of qualities. It’s not rational. It just hits like a Cupid’s arrow where thinking about that particular guy or being around that particular guy pushes the ecstasy button.

So much dopamine, endorphins, serotonin, and oxytocin all in response only to ‘Johnny’

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Javfly33 So human beings don't cause emotional and physical suffering to other human beings, is that what you are implying? 

They can think they can, but in reality is you who cause you emotional suffering and THEN project that she/he hurt you. Of course emotional suffering is of your creation and responsability.

Physical suffering is more difficult to trascend. It requires insane mystic levels of controlling the body and mind. I am not advocating for that kind of control as a goal for people. 

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

10 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

@WaveInTheOcean lol you might wanna hide this post. No need to be vulgar for no reason.

No need for anything at all

Just love

10 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@WaveInTheOcean You did not engage intellectually with the post. 

Exactly.

I don't want to.

It's a silly game you're playing and I don't wanna waste time participating, yet here I am?!

10 hours ago, Emerald said:

Yeah, the framing of women as a ‘resource’ is certainly disturbing... but also unfortunately very common.

I get the response as it’s how I (and other women) feel about these kinds of posts.

But unfortunately they’re just going to turn it back on you for picking up on the ‘woman as commodity’ implication and say that you’re straw manning and misreading.

But really you’re just noticing the underlying meaning of the post... and responding to the dog whistle.

Disturbing indeed.

Hehe.

The last part about the dog whistle, can you elaborate? I feel autistic for not fully getting what you meaning; you're saying my unintelligent vulgar post is just more wood to the incels bonfire?

[WaveInTheOcean]

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

So i noticed that Leo and a lot of other people here are against libetarians and more in favour of equality and mechanism that prevent a minority to control all the resources. Personally i agree with this, however i am not sure why this does not apply to sex too. What happens these days that just like in a monopoly, a few guys (maximum 10-15 percent) have access to all the girls

You pulled these numbers out of your ass?  Even let's pretend it's true, what prevents YOU as a current victim from becoming the top 15%?

Looks? Money? Charisma? Self-Love?

Check you're limiting beliefs.

Grow some balls.

Talk to girls.

Practice self love.

Watch the charisma on command YouTube channel.

There are *infinitely* many things you could do to improve your situation.

Trust me, I've been where you are.

The victim mindset.

But it's possible to get out.

Hard work as you say. Rewarding AF tho. Let's go bro ??????

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 meanwhile a lot of guys are left with nothing.

You keep talking from the pov of guys.

What about the poor women who can't find any confident, funny, charismatic, strong guys?

They're left with dog shit: shy, unconfident boys like you (and me +2 years ago) ???

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 Now getting sex, just like getting a good job or money is mostly a result of hard work, with a help of good luck. If a guy is born in a good family his economic prospects are going to be better than a guy that is born in a poor family, just like a good looking extroverted guy naturally will have better dating prospects than an autistic ugly person.

Screw the good luck part. I wanna take your false victim mind set and throw in the bin. Screw that. There's no luck in this dream you're dreaming as God pretending to be Karmadhi.

Absolutely speaking: Everything is happening very very very delibaretly; "luck" is just something you imagine!

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 Now when it comes to dating market, sex and love are human needs therefore in terms of importance i would put them at par with having a home and food to eat.

This is puke inducing to read for me.

Look bro. Human beings, women, girls are NOT a fucking commodity you sick fuck. For fuck sake. Jesus christ.

They are human beings! Go and talk to them!! Be funny, say something silly. What's the worst thing that can happen? Are you afraid they will instantly shove your pants off and bite your dick off if you approach them?

Let go of limiting beliefs.

The world -- existence, life -- will never be good unless you are willing to see its goodness. What you experience depends on how you look at things. 

When you look with judgement -- either upon yourself, the world or both -- life seems twisted and empty.
When you begin to look with an open heart and mind, life becomes fascinating and full of both meaning and mystery.

When you realize the perfection, intelligence and beauty of everything in existence precisely as it is (without the filters of ego; yes, drop them - let go!), you see that every outcome is a good one. You start to live life fully without fear and regret. You learn and move on.

When you look with love instead of judgement, you see a whole different world.

Life isn't easy all the time. You're not alone.

For there to be joy, there has to be some pain. So instead of looking at the painful life-phases that you're undergoing as "bad", look at them as absolutely necessary and beneficial in the long run for your own growth and eventual happiness. Remember, nothing lasts forever, everything passes away at some point.

0. Knowledge is but a rumor until it lives in the body/bones.

1. Reality is non-dual. Non-duality means: Not one, not two. The question is: do you get it or not?

For example, let's take the extreme duality: good - bad . Obviously complete opposites. Right?
Well, not so fast. "Apply non-duality to it":

Reality is not: bad
Reality is not: good (either)
Reality is not: "good AND bad" (paradox).
Reality is:   __________________      (Or you 'could' say: "bad-good").

2. To let go of power is to gain power.

3. To let go of control is to gain control 

The real unreal
The unreal real

Form is Emptiness,
Emptiness is Form.

You can't eat the menu.

The map is not the territory.

The finger pointing to the moon...
is NOT the moon.

Stop trying to live life in your head!

Can you bite your own teeth? Can eyes looking out ever see from where they are looking? Can a fist grasp itself?...

What a caterpillar calls the end of the world..., we call a ??? butterfly.

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 

When it comes to regulation you cannot really regulate human interactions however online dating should be regulated. In addition, another way for this regulation can be by promoting guys to be more social and for girls to be less entitled and picky. I mean this may sound dumb but when 1/3 of guys are lonely virgin that has negative consequences for society. It makes them mysogonistic, and even violent sometimes. Some objections which i will hear:

1. "If you are not lazy and improve yourself then you will not have problems". True, however same logic can be applied for all markets. If you work hard and save your money then you will not be broke. So why we still have systems that protect lazy people that are not wise with their money? i personally love such systems but it feels a bit double standard here.

2. "This is just a ego defense for you (opener of thread) to justify your lack of success with women". Personally i am working on improving myself and am quite social, i do not blame the unregulated dating market for my success, however i see sometimes a lot of guys frustrated and lonely and i feel very bad for them. I also see girls frustrated too, however their frustration often comes from a specific guy not wanting them. For guys it is about NOBODY wanting them. I cannot feel the same for a starving kid than for a kid that has food but only wants cake.

Haha more victim mindset. 

Of course dude, for there to be guys who are wanted there has to be guys who are not wanted.

You see? You can't have light without dark, up without down, heads without tails, better without worse. Etc.

Life is a musical thing. A dance. Go out and participate. Play some fucking nodes instead of wasting life on this silly forum. Dance!?????‍♂️

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

3. "You should be happy things are like this because now if you work hard you will be at the top". This is not about me again, it is about a society problem.

No, it's also about you. Problems are something YOU (as God) are imagining into existence.

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

4. "Why you even care man, just focus on yourself". Same logic for why we should care about social welfare and stuff, just work hard and focus on yourself. However that logic is flawed and selfish.

If anyone plans to block this thread for low quality i would appreciate an actual good response about the reasoning behind it, instead of saying "self biased lazy" etc. I put some effort into writting this so please give an actual argument. I could also remove all threads regarding social equality and economic welfare systems by calling them tools to justify lazy irresponsible people. However i would find that not the right thing to do.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/875661.Rumi

“This is IT! So you don’t need to do anything at all… It’s just the way it is. What’s required is a sort of act of super relaxation.. It’s not just letting go. It’s being with yourself as you are without altering anything.”

 ~ Alan Watts

“When you look for your own mind, that is to say, your own particularized center of being which is separate from everything else, you won’t be able to find it. But the only way you’ll know it isn’t there is if you look for it hard enough, to find out that it isn’t there.

And so everybody says ‘All right, know yourself, look within, find out who you are.’ Because the harder you look, you won’t be able to find it, and then you’ll realize it isn’t there at all. There isn’t a separate you. You’re mind is what there is. Everything. But the only way to find that out is to persist in the state of delusion as hard as possible….

So if a person believes that the Earth is flat, you can’t talk him out of that. He knows it’s flat. Look out the window and see; it’s obvious, it looks flat. So the only way to convince him it isn’t is to say ‘Well let’s go and find the edge.’ And in order to find the edge, you’ve got to be very careful not to walk in circles, you’ll never find it that way.

So we’ve got to go consistently in a straight line due west along the same line of latitude, and eventually when we get back to where we started from, you’ve convinced the guy that the world is round. That’s the only way that will teach him. Because people can’t be talked out of illusions.

There is another possibility, however. But this is more difficult to describe. Let’s say we take as the basic supposition–which is the thing that one sees in the experience of satori or awakening, or whatever you want to call it–that this now moment in which I’m talking and you’re listening, is eternity.

That although we have somehow conned ourselves into the notion that this moment is ordinary, and that we may not feel very well, we’re sort of vaguely frustrated and worried and so on, and that it ought to be changed.

This is IT! So you don’t need to do anything at all. But the difficulty about explaining that is that you mustn’t try and not do anything, because that’s doing something. It’s just the way it is. In other words, what’s required is a sort of act of super relaxation; it’s not ordinary relaxation.

It’s not just letting go, as when you lie down on the floor and imagine that you’re heavy so you get into a state of muscular relaxation. It’s not like that. It’s being with yourself as you are without altering anything.

And how to explain that? Because there’s nothing to explain. It is the way it is now. See? And if you understand that, it will automatically wake you up!”

...

Life is not a problem to solve, but an experience to be had. However, sure - you can imagine all kinds of problems that "should" be solved (in order for you & the ? to be at peace ?️), but that is just it: imagination, fantasy, a dramatic good movie, a theater play, a book, a game... play ???.

Life is what you choose to experience. The ultimate meaning of life is very simple: it's life itself! Of course! But this is so obvious that almost no one seems to buy into it, and everyone runs around in great panic and try desperately to achieve something beyond themselves.

There isn't anything wrong with trying to achieve something beyond oneself, as long as one remembers it's just a cute game.

But of course, we should all strive to make it a good game, a good dream, a good book, a good play, a good film...with total redemption for all dream-characters in the end ??❤️?.

------------_-----------

https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o

There’s aren’t enough words to describe how powerful this video is for me. It’s in my iPod and every single morning before I lift I listen to this speech. It’s absolutely stunning. Inspirational. Motivating. It’s everything to me. I would like for you to watch it and tell me what you think.

We all should dream big.

Without going after our dream, we cannot possibly live our best life. It is there for a reason. It’s necessary that we follow it…not just an option:

"If you awaken from this illusion and you understand that black implies white, self implies other, life implies death (or shall I say death implies life?), you can feel yourself – not as a stranger in the world, not as something here on probation, not as something that has arrived here by fluke - but you can begin to feel your own existence as absolutely fundamental.

I am not trying to sell you on this idea in the sense of converting you to it, I want you to play with it. I want you to think of its possibilities, I am not trying to prove it. I am just putting it forward as a possibility of life to think about. So then, let’s suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have.

And you would, naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each you would say “Well that was pretty great. But now let’s have a surprise, let’s have a dream which isn’t under control, where something is gonna happen to me that I don’t know what it's gonna be."

And you would dig that and would come out of that and you would say “Wow that was a close shave, wasn’t it?”. Then you would get more and more adventurous and you would make further- and further-out gambles what you would dream. And finally, you would dream where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.

That would be within the infinite multiplicity of choices you would have. Of playing that you weren't God, because the whole nature of the godhead, according to this idea, is to play that he is not. So in this idea then, everybody is fundamentally the ultimate reality, not God in a politically kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self, the deep-down basic whatever there is. And you are all that, only you are pretending you are not."  

-   Watts up, Alan?

-------_-------

"It is by going down into the abyss
that we recover the treasures of life.

Where you stumble,
there lies your treasure.

The very cave you are afraid to enter
turns out to be the source of
what you are looking for.
The damned thing in the cave
that was so dreaded
has become the center.

You find the jewel,
and it draws you off.

In loving the spiritual,
you cannot despise the earthly."

- J. Campbell.

From the english wiki about <Lila> ('divine play' in hinduism//sanskrit) :

"The basic recurring theme in Hindu mythology is the creation of the world by the self-sacrifice of God—"sacrifice" in the original sense of "making sacred"—whereby God becomes the world which, in the end, becomes again God. This creative activity of the Divine is called lila, the play of God, and the world is seen as the stage of the divine play. Like most of Hindu mythology, the myth of lila has a strong magical flavour. Brahman is the great magician who transforms himself into the world and then performs this feat with his "magic creative power", which is the original meaning of maya in the Rig Veda. The word maya—one of the most important terms in Indian philosophy—has changed its meaning over the centuries. From the might, or power, of the divine actor and magician, it came to signify the psychological state of anybody under the spell of the magic play. As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya. (...) In the Hindu view of nature, then, all forms are relative, fluid and ever-changing maya, conjured up by the great magician of the divine play. The world of maya changes continuously, because the divine lila is a rhythmic, dynamic play. The dynamic force of the play is karma, an important concept of Indian thought. Karma means "action". It is the active principle of the play, the total universe in action, where everything is dynamically connected with everything else. In the words of the Gita Karma is the force of creation, wherefrom all things have their life."

My metaphysics right there.

Believe in the story that gives you most inner joy. Anything else is a form of silly autism.