If the dating market is a market, then why it's not regulated,at least online dating

[WaveInTheOcean]

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

So i noticed that Leo and a lot of other people here are against libetarians and more in favour of equality and mechanism that prevent a minority to control all the resources. Personally i agree with this, however i am not sure why this does not apply to sex too. What happens these days that just like in a monopoly, a few guys (maximum 10-15 percent) have access to all the girls

You pulled these numbers out of your ass?  Even let's pretend it's true, what prevents YOU as a current victim from becoming the top 15%?

Looks? Money? Charisma? Self-Love?

Check you're limiting beliefs.

Grow some balls.

Talk to girls.

Practice self love.

Watch the charisma on command YouTube channel.

There are *infinitely* many things you could do to improve your situation.

Trust me, I've been where you are.

The victim mindset.

But it's possible to get out.

Hard work as you say. Rewarding AF tho. Let's go bro ??????

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 meanwhile a lot of guys are left with nothing.

You keep talking from the pov of guys.

What about the poor women who can't find any confident, funny, charismatic, strong guys?

They're left with dog shit: shy, unconfident boys like you (and me +2 years ago) ???

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 Now getting sex, just like getting a good job or money is mostly a result of hard work, with a help of good luck. If a guy is born in a good family his economic prospects are going to be better than a guy that is born in a poor family, just like a good looking extroverted guy naturally will have better dating prospects than an autistic ugly person.

Screw the good luck part. I wanna take your false victim mind set and throw in the bin. Screw that. There's no luck in this dream you're dreaming as God pretending to be Karmadhi.

Absolutely speaking: Everything is happening very very very delibaretly; "luck" is just something you imagine!

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 Now when it comes to dating market, sex and love are human needs therefore in terms of importance i would put them at par with having a home and food to eat.

This is puke inducing to read for me.

Look bro. Human beings, women, girls are NOT a fucking commodity you sick fuck. For fuck sake. Jesus christ.

They are human beings! Go and talk to them!! Be funny, say something silly. What's the worst thing that can happen? Are you afraid they will instantly shove your pants off and bite your dick off if you approach them?

Let go of limiting beliefs.

The world -- existence, life -- will never be good unless you are willing to see its goodness. What you experience depends on how you look at things. 

When you look with judgement -- either upon yourself, the world or both -- life seems twisted and empty.
When you begin to look with an open heart and mind, life becomes fascinating and full of both meaning and mystery.

When you realize the perfection, intelligence and beauty of everything in existence precisely as it is (without the filters of ego; yes, drop them - let go!), you see that every outcome is a good one. You start to live life fully without fear and regret. You learn and move on.

When you look with love instead of judgement, you see a whole different world.

Life isn't easy all the time. You're not alone.

For there to be joy, there has to be some pain. So instead of looking at the painful life-phases that you're undergoing as "bad", look at them as absolutely necessary and beneficial in the long run for your own growth and eventual happiness. Remember, nothing lasts forever, everything passes away at some point.

0. Knowledge is but a rumor until it lives in the body/bones.

1. Reality is non-dual. Non-duality means: Not one, not two. The question is: do you get it or not?

For example, let's take the extreme duality: good - bad . Obviously complete opposites. Right?
Well, not so fast. "Apply non-duality to it":

Reality is not: bad
Reality is not: good (either)
Reality is not: "good AND bad" (paradox).
Reality is:   __________________      (Or you 'could' say: "bad-good").

2. To let go of power is to gain power.

3. To let go of control is to gain control 

The real unreal
The unreal real

Form is Emptiness,
Emptiness is Form.

You can't eat the menu.

The map is not the territory.

The finger pointing to the moon...
is NOT the moon.

Stop trying to live life in your head!

Can you bite your own teeth? Can eyes looking out ever see from where they are looking? Can a fist grasp itself?...

What a caterpillar calls the end of the world..., we call a ??? butterfly.

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

 

When it comes to regulation you cannot really regulate human interactions however online dating should be regulated. In addition, another way for this regulation can be by promoting guys to be more social and for girls to be less entitled and picky. I mean this may sound dumb but when 1/3 of guys are lonely virgin that has negative consequences for society. It makes them mysogonistic, and even violent sometimes. Some objections which i will hear:

1. "If you are not lazy and improve yourself then you will not have problems". True, however same logic can be applied for all markets. If you work hard and save your money then you will not be broke. So why we still have systems that protect lazy people that are not wise with their money? i personally love such systems but it feels a bit double standard here.

2. "This is just a ego defense for you (opener of thread) to justify your lack of success with women". Personally i am working on improving myself and am quite social, i do not blame the unregulated dating market for my success, however i see sometimes a lot of guys frustrated and lonely and i feel very bad for them. I also see girls frustrated too, however their frustration often comes from a specific guy not wanting them. For guys it is about NOBODY wanting them. I cannot feel the same for a starving kid than for a kid that has food but only wants cake.

Haha more victim mindset. 

Of course dude, for there to be guys who are wanted there has to be guys who are not wanted.

You see? You can't have light without dark, up without down, heads without tails, better without worse. Etc.

Life is a musical thing. A dance. Go out and participate. Play some fucking nodes instead of wasting life on this silly forum. Dance!?????‍♂️

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

3. "You should be happy things are like this because now if you work hard you will be at the top". This is not about me again, it is about a society problem.

No, it's also about you. Problems are something YOU (as God) are imagining into existence.

On 26.5.2021 at 8:59 PM, Karmadhi said:

4. "Why you even care man, just focus on yourself". Same logic for why we should care about social welfare and stuff, just work hard and focus on yourself. However that logic is flawed and selfish.

If anyone plans to block this thread for low quality i would appreciate an actual good response about the reasoning behind it, instead of saying "self biased lazy" etc. I put some effort into writting this so please give an actual argument. I could also remove all threads regarding social equality and economic welfare systems by calling them tools to justify lazy irresponsible people. However i would find that not the right thing to do.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/875661.Rumi

“This is IT! So you don’t need to do anything at all… It’s just the way it is. What’s required is a sort of act of super relaxation.. It’s not just letting go. It’s being with yourself as you are without altering anything.”

 ~ Alan Watts

“When you look for your own mind, that is to say, your own particularized center of being which is separate from everything else, you won’t be able to find it. But the only way you’ll know it isn’t there is if you look for it hard enough, to find out that it isn’t there.

And so everybody says ‘All right, know yourself, look within, find out who you are.’ Because the harder you look, you won’t be able to find it, and then you’ll realize it isn’t there at all. There isn’t a separate you. You’re mind is what there is. Everything. But the only way to find that out is to persist in the state of delusion as hard as possible….

So if a person believes that the Earth is flat, you can’t talk him out of that. He knows it’s flat. Look out the window and see; it’s obvious, it looks flat. So the only way to convince him it isn’t is to say ‘Well let’s go and find the edge.’ And in order to find the edge, you’ve got to be very careful not to walk in circles, you’ll never find it that way.

So we’ve got to go consistently in a straight line due west along the same line of latitude, and eventually when we get back to where we started from, you’ve convinced the guy that the world is round. That’s the only way that will teach him. Because people can’t be talked out of illusions.

There is another possibility, however. But this is more difficult to describe. Let’s say we take as the basic supposition–which is the thing that one sees in the experience of satori or awakening, or whatever you want to call it–that this now moment in which I’m talking and you’re listening, is eternity.

That although we have somehow conned ourselves into the notion that this moment is ordinary, and that we may not feel very well, we’re sort of vaguely frustrated and worried and so on, and that it ought to be changed.

This is IT! So you don’t need to do anything at all. But the difficulty about explaining that is that you mustn’t try and not do anything, because that’s doing something. It’s just the way it is. In other words, what’s required is a sort of act of super relaxation; it’s not ordinary relaxation.

It’s not just letting go, as when you lie down on the floor and imagine that you’re heavy so you get into a state of muscular relaxation. It’s not like that. It’s being with yourself as you are without altering anything.

And how to explain that? Because there’s nothing to explain. It is the way it is now. See? And if you understand that, it will automatically wake you up!”

...

Life is not a problem to solve, but an experience to be had. However, sure - you can imagine all kinds of problems that "should" be solved (in order for you & the ? to be at peace ?️), but that is just it: imagination, fantasy, a dramatic good movie, a theater play, a book, a game... play ???.

Life is what you choose to experience. The ultimate meaning of life is very simple: it's life itself! Of course! But this is so obvious that almost no one seems to buy into it, and everyone runs around in great panic and try desperately to achieve something beyond themselves.

There isn't anything wrong with trying to achieve something beyond oneself, as long as one remembers it's just a cute game.

But of course, we should all strive to make it a good game, a good dream, a good book, a good play, a good film...with total redemption for all dream-characters in the end ??❤️?.

------------_-----------

https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o

There’s aren’t enough words to describe how powerful this video is for me. It’s in my iPod and every single morning before I lift I listen to this speech. It’s absolutely stunning. Inspirational. Motivating. It’s everything to me. I would like for you to watch it and tell me what you think.

We all should dream big.

Without going after our dream, we cannot possibly live our best life. It is there for a reason. It’s necessary that we follow it…not just an option:

"If you awaken from this illusion and you understand that black implies white, self implies other, life implies death (or shall I say death implies life?), you can feel yourself – not as a stranger in the world, not as something here on probation, not as something that has arrived here by fluke - but you can begin to feel your own existence as absolutely fundamental.

I am not trying to sell you on this idea in the sense of converting you to it, I want you to play with it. I want you to think of its possibilities, I am not trying to prove it. I am just putting it forward as a possibility of life to think about. So then, let’s suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have.

And you would, naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each you would say “Well that was pretty great. But now let’s have a surprise, let’s have a dream which isn’t under control, where something is gonna happen to me that I don’t know what it's gonna be."

And you would dig that and would come out of that and you would say “Wow that was a close shave, wasn’t it?”. Then you would get more and more adventurous and you would make further- and further-out gambles what you would dream. And finally, you would dream where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.

That would be within the infinite multiplicity of choices you would have. Of playing that you weren't God, because the whole nature of the godhead, according to this idea, is to play that he is not. So in this idea then, everybody is fundamentally the ultimate reality, not God in a politically kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self, the deep-down basic whatever there is. And you are all that, only you are pretending you are not."  

-   Watts up, Alan?

-------_-------

"It is by going down into the abyss
that we recover the treasures of life.

Where you stumble,
there lies your treasure.

The very cave you are afraid to enter
turns out to be the source of
what you are looking for.
The damned thing in the cave
that was so dreaded
has become the center.

You find the jewel,
and it draws you off.

In loving the spiritual,
you cannot despise the earthly."

- J. Campbell.

From the english wiki about <Lila> ('divine play' in hinduism//sanskrit) :

"The basic recurring theme in Hindu mythology is the creation of the world by the self-sacrifice of God—"sacrifice" in the original sense of "making sacred"—whereby God becomes the world which, in the end, becomes again God. This creative activity of the Divine is called lila, the play of God, and the world is seen as the stage of the divine play. Like most of Hindu mythology, the myth of lila has a strong magical flavour. Brahman is the great magician who transforms himself into the world and then performs this feat with his "magic creative power", which is the original meaning of maya in the Rig Veda. The word maya—one of the most important terms in Indian philosophy—has changed its meaning over the centuries. From the might, or power, of the divine actor and magician, it came to signify the psychological state of anybody under the spell of the magic play. As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya. (...) In the Hindu view of nature, then, all forms are relative, fluid and ever-changing maya, conjured up by the great magician of the divine play. The world of maya changes continuously, because the divine lila is a rhythmic, dynamic play. The dynamic force of the play is karma, an important concept of Indian thought. Karma means "action". It is the active principle of the play, the total universe in action, where everything is dynamically connected with everything else. In the words of the Gita Karma is the force of creation, wherefrom all things have their life."

My metaphysics right there.

Believe in the story that gives you most inner joy. Anything else is a form of silly autism.

[Tangerinedream]

Instead of expecting women to drop their standards and give pity sex to these poor struggling incels, why don’t you guys drop your expectations a bit too. You are all out here aiming only for girls who are a ‘10’
you expect that you should get the best quality girls handed to you on a silver platter. 
Why shouldn’t high quality girls also want a high quality man. 
Today girls have the right to choose, so that means that you have to up your game. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Tangerinedream

[Karmadhi]

@Emerald Amazing explanation. Thank you.

[Karmadhi]

@WaveInTheOcean I never ever said that guys get girls for no reason. That is a crazy straw men you made. I said guys should learn how to socialize and attract girls in a socially healthy way. Talking to girls in a mall and being called a creep by 95 percent of society for doing so is not a healthy way. Healthy way is to learn it through education system which not only does not teach this stuff, it actually makes it worse with all the bullshit "all genders are the same" stuff. This is not about me for fuck sake, stop making it personal. I ALREADY know how attraction works, i am talking about the millions that don't and feel hopeless. I used not to understand it at ALL and thought being nice and kind and handsome got you girls due to the bullshit media and popular opinions people have these days. Had to learn it through sheer experience and observation and would like if this shit was taught by society instead of having to read some RSD forum for it and then get demonized by most of society for being sexist.

"He's not alluding to forcing women to have sex or something. That's quite a ridiculous strawman. He's seeing and pointing out to a MASSIVE societal issue, which is the unmet needs of a vast majority of men, and seeking to find healthy solutions. Not for himself, but on a societal scale". 

This is a response someone gave that perfectly explains what i meant with my thread.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

@Peter Miklis Just watch Leo's videos on this topic, they are really good and no bullshit explanations. Do not trust girls about what attracts them because most are not aware of it.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Peter Miklis said:

What would be the buttons then, from your perspective and understanding of women's sexuality? Or is it too specific and non - objective to know? Is it like a right mix of masculinity and femininity, or something like that?

I guess it's understandong what the woman wants. 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

@Karmadhi  "Just integrate your femininity bro! Do you even shadow work?" I'm just interested if the latter holds at least some significance in being attractive.

I don't think that integrating feminine means looking or acting feminine if that's what you're assuming it to be, no, because in that case that would be obviously unattractive. 

 

[DaveB]

Well, some guys try a lot...

 

 

[Karmadhi]

@DaveB There is already a thread about this. It depends how you try and how bad your skills are when you start. I think most Incels have actually tried unlike what most people on this forum including Leo say but the amount of effort you need if your social skills are bad (and you re not very handsome) is insane for most average people to bear. This guy did 300, YES 300 approaches and got no results. Leo did 440 to get his first results. Imagine what kind of tenacity you need to do that amount and still keep moving forward. The average guy stands no chance, you need willpower of a god. 

Keep in mind most people will not need that amount of trying to get some results. This is the case for people with horrible social skills due to lack of lifelong experience. Which is why most incels stay incels.

Also quality of the advice matters too. Some advice is better than others. RSD is amazing for inner game and general advice  but their outer game strategy is kind of  lacking in terms of how to handle objections, how to get the girl to come to your place, what to text etc. John Anthony Lifestyle seems to be the best regarding pure logistics and objection handling to maximize the chances of a girl to sleep with you.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Karmadhi

[RendHeaven]

18 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

maximize the chances of a girl to sleep with you.

bruh

[Jacob Morres]

Lots of bickering and conflicts here. Not a fan tbhh 

What if we could come together and talk it out. I think that could solve some issues 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

No need for anything at all

Just love

Exactly.

I don't want to.

It's a silly game you're playing and I don't wanna waste time participating, yet here I am?!

Disturbing indeed.

Hehe.

The last part about the dog whistle, can you elaborate? I feel autistic for not fully getting what you meaning; you're saying my unintelligent vulgar post is just more wood to the incels bonfire?

No. That's not what I'm saying. Noticing a dog whistle means picking up on the underlying implication of something that's said/written, even if that which is being said/written is meant to to cloak the deeper sentiment.

A dog whistle is that which is at a pitch that only dogs can hear. So, whenever someone is expressing some kind of racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise unpopular point of view, but wants to have plausible deniability, they will express things in the form of a dog whistle. That way, they can say, "What!? That's not what I meant! You're reading too much into it and straw manning!"

So, the dog whistle is "Shouldn't there be regulations in the dating market if there are regulations in the financial market?" which seems (to the uninitiated) like something to simply ponder into. Just some food for thought to mull over intellectually.

But those who actually hear the dog whistle (like yourself), pick up on the subtext that women are being framed as a commodity/resource. And that the OP sees women in this light and is perhaps (on some level) comfortable with women's sexual choices being controlled by something other than herself as she is object to him, not subject. Basically, it betrays that he sees female sexual sovereignty and bodily autonomy as a problem in need of solving.

Now, do I think the dog whistle is conscious? Probably not.

The OP probably doesn't realize that he views women as objects. He also probably thinks (as of now) that he supports women's right to sexual sovereignty. But that's only because it would be an unpopular opinion to express and doesn't want to recognize that opinion that he holds. 

But, if the social and political tides start to turn again toward a more patriarchal slant, those with his paradigm will be the first to pop out of the woodwork to support the reneging of those rights.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

What would be the buttons then, from your perspective and understanding of women's sexuality? Or is it too specific and non - objective to know? Is it like a right mix of masculinity and femininity, or something like that?

It's very specific. You pick up on this particular guy's energy and vibe and gestures and flaws. And that all adds up to more than the sum of his parts. 

I remember in the 7th grade, I had a huge crush on this kid Billy. And he had a really wide squarish head. Something that would definitely be regarded generally as unattractive. My friend Joe used to call him fat head.

But every time I'd see him from the back, I'd notice that particularity about him and just feel all kinds of fireworks. And it was little things like that were attractive because they were part of him, but were not attractive in general.

And this has always been the case for me. It's always the feelings that his unique idiosyncrasies (physical traits, gestures, patterns of speech, vocal tone, flaws) create a vibe and that vibe itself is enticing. 

Now, as far as polarity goes, I am a woman who is mostly feminine with some masculine... maybe a 75%/25% split. And I'm rarely attracted to hyper masculine guys beyond simply recognition that "Okay, I see this person is objectively attractive." I usually get the Cupid's Arrow for men who are mostly masculine with some feminine... again probably 75/25. And it's nearly always been that split for me. 

These are the men that I'm most polarized to because my feminine side is attracted to their masculine side and my masculine side is attracted to their feminine side. That's how polarity works. You attune to your own energetic signature and you find someone with the mirror opposite.

But some common things with all attractions are these ecstatic feelings in the center of the chest and base of the spine... and a general warmth and relaxation upon thinking of the guy.

But I've never felt the same way about someone twice. Each attraction I've had deals directly with the unique energy of the person.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Emerald Amazing explanation. Thank you.

Thank you and you're welcome!

[bejapuskas]

@Karmadhi  I understand why you would say that not having sex makes a guy misogynistic. But then do you think as a virgin who does not get sex you cannot understand women? Also an issue with regulating such market if it existed would be that the women are not in any way obliged to listen to you about who they should and should not be having sex with, that sounds horribly wrong.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

15 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@WaveInTheOcean Talking to girls in a mall and being called a creep 

Thanks for elaborating -- sorry if i was being too rude.

Last point from me: it's not so about what, when and where you talk to girls; it's how you do it, how you talk, how you approach, the subtle implicit energy you're sending out.

With charisma, self-love & high self esteem, you can easily talk to strange girls in the supermarket without being seen as creepy.

But yeah - evening/night time/parties are often the best time to approach.

When doing cold approaching, sex is btw only a side benefit / added bonus; the main benefit / gold of doing cold approach is it can boost your self esteem, self-love a fucking lot which means it about self development ans learning to be well balances/well contained in regards to ones natural masculinity.

[WaveInTheOcean]

@Emerald thx for elaborating :-) makes sense!

[Gidiot]

I think a healthy solution to this problem would be more social gatherings that are well put together and marketed well. Yes we have bars yes we have parties but those are too private maybe like a government contracted venue or even community sponsored events where people can come out of their shell. Something where it’s easy for shy people to connect
 

I agree that you can’t see women as a commodity like money and so regulating the marketplace is tough. Personally the more social you are the higher your chances of getting a girlfriend or something casual happen. their advice to cold approach may be true but it won’t work for everyone. Sometimes it helps to be “set up” even though in a lot of countries it is done against someone’s free will which isn’t right IMO.

Maybe bars are too outdated maybe we need a variety of safe social functions after the virus is gone.
 

Personally online dating has been a boon for me and I don’t think I’m even that attractive. But truly it’s definitely a numbers game in the socializing and dating field you are likely going to have to talk to a lot of women to get dates or sex. This is fine in my opinion yea it sucks that we have to do the approaching as guys but it can be fun sometimes, and also we mustn’t forget about the needs of women, mostly they don’t want just sex and so they will be naturally selective. They want to make sure that you are going to be there in the morning so to speak.

 

we want an animalistic conquest, personally I agree with Leo, most men just need to get the sex fucked out of them and then around 30 they are ready to commit this is obviously a generalization but it seems true for me. 
 

so it is valid advice to get laid enough until you don’t need to anymore but most people would be happier with a girlfriend and maybe the long term commitment can come once they have released enough sexual energy.

 

just my two cents

 

[intotheblack]

Bring back singles nights and blind dates. 

[intotheblack]

Another thing is that with the rise of dating apps and social media, there is now way too much choice.  You meet someone but think maybe there is someone better so you ditch them.  People have became way, way more disposable.  Because of dating apps it’s made guys see girls as literally just a number, how many matches can they get, how many girls can they sleep with.  Literally just a number. 
and because of how glaringly obvious this has become, girls have become much more cautious about who they go out with.  
It’s always been known that men want sex, but because of social media etc. It’s much more out in the open and girls are more aware about being used and what red flags to look out for. 
so it seems they became more picky, but really they just got more aware. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by intotheblack