Question to Leo on Veganism @Leo Gura

[blueplasma]

I am vegan myself I expected Leo to be a vegan, but found that he is not. If God is love and we are supposed to practice love and that is the purpose then why isn't Leo a vegan? We all know how cruel the meat industry is (go watch any of the slaughterhouse videos on YT).. plus all the environmental impact animal farming has... and the fact that we are not obligate omnivores or anything like that.

So my question to Leo, why aren't you a vegan?

[Opo]

He has gut problems that veganism can't solve. 

[blueplasma]

47 minutes ago, Opo said:

He has gut problems that veganism can't solve. 

So if he did'nt have gut problem he would be vegan? Has he said that ?

[Max_V]

Some people after being vegan for a couple of years come to the conclusion that it doesn't work for their body.

Trying to minimize the harm you cause to the world is a beautiful thing, but if something has such an adverse reaction on your life that it makes living up to your potential impossible, would you still choose to do it?

Personally, I eventually came to the conclusion that veganism doesn't work for my body, and thus opted to include some organic animal products. 

Choosing to persist and be alive is ultimately already a selfish thing. Therefore, trying to find a balance where you minimize harm to others while at the same time being able to be the best version of you, is I think the best option. 

[Gregp]

@Max_V Just supplement with b12 and you'll probable be fine. 

[Opo]

29 minutes ago, blueplasma said:

So if he did'nt have gut problem he would be vegan? Has he said that ?

Yas. 

But it doesn't matter, relax your butthole. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Opo

[Snader]

1 hour ago, blueplasma said:

we are supposed to practice love

You can practice love in many ways. Sometimes you need to make a compromise where you sacrifice a little to gain (or create) more. Like in a case where your system has limits with vegan food; playing your role in meat industry by eating meat, so that you can be able to do your conscious work for society, which will increase love in in the long run and so eventually maybe even reduce meat industry in a bigger scale.

Of course it's a responsibility of a conscious human being to minimize global unnecessary harm and suffering, but to an extend you're capable in the frames of your limits and balance, like Max_V implied.

 

 

[Matt23]

2 hours ago, Opo said:

Yas. 

But it doesn't matter, relax your butthole. 

I heard Ken Wilber once describe a difference between Stage Green and Stage Yellow.  It went something like this:

• "You put Stage Green in a situation where they're hungry and all there is is a McDonalds, they're gunna have a huge moral dilemma and issue about it.  But, at Stage Yellow, they'll have no problem chowing down a cheeseburger and fries.  Since it fits the situation.  They're flexible."

Find the balance between optimizing your own health, sanity, functionality, and kindness and compassion towards yourself and happiness vs. focusing on other(s).  

After all, You are other to others and do effect your environment.  If you are unhealthy and miserable, irritated and dysfunctional, you will more likely effect others and your environment negatively, sub-optimally, and not give your best self to a cause that might have a bigger net-positive that outweighs the net-negative of eating a cheeseburger (a cheeseburger that might satisfy some craving temporarily [a craving which might just be too hard to resolve with mindfulness or something since, say, you're in traffic on your way to work and don't have time or the emotional capacity at the moment to "work on yourself"] which then changes your mood a bit so that you show up to work in a way more positive mood which others then feel and increases work productivity and quality... for example).  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Matt23

[Carl-Richard]

He has a health issue which is incompatible with a plant-based diet.

[Windappreciator]

I am vegan bro, welcome to the good side 

[Leo Gura]

I have tried vegan and vegetarian and it simply does not give me sufficient energy.

You vegans don't seem to realize something: not all human genetics and bodies work on a vegan diet. That is an unquestioned assumption you hold.

Also, you misunderstand Love. Since God is Love, murder is Love too. You cannot use the fact of Love to justify any action, because every action is Love.

[Windappreciator]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You vegans don't seem to realize something: not all human genetics and bodies work on a vegan diet. That is an unquestioned assumption you hold.

Most bodies do work, you're a niche and people will misuse what you said as simply "my genetics" for their lack of compassion.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

Most bodies do work, you're a niche and people will misuse what you said as simply "my genetics" for their lack of compassion.

If one's body can handle it, then I suggest one try it.

Of course people will make up what excuses they want.

[kieranperez]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I have tried vegan and vegetarian and it simply does not give me sufficient energy.

You vegans don't seem to realize something: not all human genetics and bodies work on a vegan diet. That is an unquestioned assumption you hold.

 

 

The other thing too is that not one diet is conducive to be a sufficient source of fuel and energy towards the wide variety all the different human endeavors and work loads which can be taxing. 

I personally could never pull off a vegan diet for myself in my own athletic endeavors. I never could sustain the energy levels that I could relative to when I ate meat. I recovered faster and I didn’t feel as tired or fatigued than if I ate a primarily vegan diet. 

Another point I would make is the amount of corruption that also goes on when it comes to how our produce is actually grown.  We do not have a healthy way of growing our fruits, vegetables, grains, etc. (speaking for the United States). I wouldn’t be surprised that, in some world where everyday suddenly wanted to buy vegan, the shift in supply and demand would put more of a stress on our produce production and might lead companies to take even more sleazy route in creating cheaper ways for them in producing all of our food at a cheaper cost. 

[Windappreciator]

15 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Another point I would make is the amount of corruption that also goes on when it comes to how our produce is actually grown.  We do not have a healthy way of growing our fruits, vegetables, grains, etc. (speaking for the United States). I wouldn’t be surprised that, in some world where everyday suddenly wanted to buy vegan, the shift in supply and demand would put more of a stress on our produce production and might lead companies to take even more sleazy route in creating cheaper ways for them in producing all of our food at a cheaper cost. 

 

[Twega]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You vegans don't seem to realize something: not all human genetics and bodies work on a vegan diet. That is an unquestioned assumption you hold.

We are primates, it is clear that we were meant to eat plants. Everything in our physiology points toward this being the case. Now in actuality, were are opportunistic eaters, we eat whatever we can to survive. What about thriving?

Our gut microbiota thrives on fiber because we co-evolved with them in a symbiotic relationship for millions of years, and primates always ate fiber. That's why when people cut off plants the gut bacteria that ferment fiber and produce butyrate die. And when there is no butyrate, your immune system starts to become dysfunctional and leads to autoimmune diseases. Low butyrate levels are taken as a sign of you starving by your gut bacteria, then they turn on you. Because no one purposefully avoided plants. That how much this built in our physiology, not to mention all the other things like teeth, digestive track etc.

Or how about that we don't have enzymes to transport Sialic Acid (found in animal products) which is linked to inflammation and disease.

It is clear we are meant to eat predominantly plants. You can still eat a little meat if you want, but a vegan/mostly vegan diet is our species diet. We are one species.

Sure, you might be allergic to peanuts, and I'm not. We are different, but not that different.

That's why there are thousands of edible plants to choose from.

You are an anomaly because you have SIBO. Other people have such bad gut health they literally can't digest a bean burrito because of how shitty they have been eating all their life. That doesn't vegan diet doesn't work for you. It means your gut isn't working for you.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Twega

[Twega]

22 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Another point I would make is the amount of corruption that also goes on when it comes to how our produce is actually grown.  We do not have a healthy way of growing our fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.

What? Whatever you may think is bad in fruits veg. Meat is 1000 worse.

First of all, animals are fed the lowest quality plant food.

Animal products are the highest sources of POS (persistent organic pollutants) 95 Percent of all POS is found in meat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6888492/  "Humans are exposed to dioxins/furans mainly through high-fat food such as fish, meat and dairy products

Throw on that hormones, natural and synthetic, antibiotics, pathegoenic bacteria, saturated fat, inflammatory proteins, and the list goes on.

[mivafofa]

2 minutes ago, Twega said:

It is clear we are meant to eat predominantly plants. You can still eat a little meat if you want, but a vegan/mostly vegan diet is our species diet. We are one species.

Sure, you might be allergic to peanuts, and I'm not. We are different, but not that different.

Believe it or not, even within the specie we are extremely different.  Smthg I eat everyday might just poison my neighbor and vice versa.   Even our taste and preferences in food differs massively despite being the same specie. Have you ever wondered why?  I sure did.  And I think the answer lies beyond just culture.

I know as a vegan, you might think our physiology is the same, our colon is 11-15 times longer than our body, our jaw can grind and chew like herbivores, and so on - so what gives?   Well, we are different than primates in that sense. If some aliens were to come on earth, take control and breed us, they wouldn't be able to feed us all the same food without having a third of us dying or suffering

[Windappreciator]

3 minutes ago, mivafofa said:

I know as a vegan, you might think our physiology is the same, our colon is 11-15 times longer than our body, our jaw can grind and chew like herbivores, and so on - so what gives?   Well, we are different than primates in that sense. If some aliens were to come on earth, take control and breed us, they wouldn't be able to feed us all the same food without having a third of us dying or suffering

You should really put your theory to the test.

[kieranperez]

Just now, Twega said:

What? Whatever you may think is bad in fruits veg. Meat is 1000 worse.

First of all, animals are fed the lowest quality plant food.

Animal products are the highest sources of POS (persistent organic pollutants) 95 Percent of all POS is found in meat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6888492/  "Humans are exposed to dioxins/furans mainly through high-fat food such as fish, meat and dairy products

Throw on that hormones, natural and synthetic, antibiotics, pathegoenic bacteria, saturated fat, inflammatory proteins, and the list goes on.

Regarding antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. I can also speak from the legal status in the state I live in which is California as I do not know the legal status of that in other states as this seems to be a state by state thing in terms of legality. In California though all the stuff you just mentioned is actually illegal so you’re making a mute point.

Regarding what I said on the corruption behind the production of our fruits and vegetables, let me try and be more clear, even though it seems you didn’t read my full point clearly enough. My case was not a statement that was stating how our produce production is as corrupt as the meat industry the way it’s currently being run. What I was saying was that there is nonetheless corruption behind our current production of our produce (which the link you sent actually states). It was not a comparison of which was worse. What I was also saying though was that, if there were a sudden shift in the demand of consumers that wanted to go and eat more vegan (just hypothetically), my concern would be that companies would cut corners to keep cost of production down which would lead to a decrease in the quality of produce production. That was my point. 

19 minutes ago, Twega said:

First of all, animals are fed the lowest quality plant food.

This is a little too broad of a brush stroke in my opinion but by and large I would agree.