Leo didnt explained what is Atman if body is projection of consciousness

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@AtheisticNonduality  What do you mean? Whom Shall I believe?

Leo teaches something else and NDE'rs say something else.

On on hand NDE'rs , OBEs , Astral Projections etc on other hand pyschedelics and experience of NON -Duality.

Some are saying Soul does not exist. Some are saying soul do exist and is inside body.

What do you mean by inside body? Is soul is separate from body ? --> means dualism .

Means our body is not a projection of consciousness. It is separate from atma/soul. 

This thing has shattered by whole paradigm of Non-Dualism.  And nobody is able to give satisfactory answers to why soul exist separate from body when body is mere thought in the consciousness??

 

Why is that important if souls exist ?

Why do you need someone to tell you if they exist or not ?

Assuming they do exist, so what ?

Assuming they don't exist, so what ?

Why do you need to know ?

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

@The0Self But reincarnation is proved to be true. There are some documented cases of people across the world where people can remember their past lifes on earth. Some claim that they were born on other planets light years far from us. 

The whole notion of atma triggers duality . As soon as soul/atman exist then it implies it exist separate from body and is located somewhere in body. Otherwise what is that leaves the body during death of physical body? 
If soul exist then it means that whole notion of our body is Mind or consciousness is wrong. And we cant have influence on our body. As body and soul are different.

That's what I mean... It's true in the same way the self is true -- it seems real. I've had past life experiences myself.

[Ananta]

@machiavelli

Ppl who know Vedanta know it's what is called the "subtle-body" that can transmigrate/reincarnate. I tried to tell you that several posts up ^ ^.

The Atma/Atman is no other then Brahman (It's same-same!), it's just that the Atma/Atman is what they call the portion of Brahman that is within the subtle and gross body. So, some call it  the soul or the true Self. Which some think to mean "self " with a small "s".

Video is only 5 min. Give it a watch.

Ps. The subtle body still is only as apparently real as anything else in the "apparent" world.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Ananta

[machiavelli]

@Ananta His explanation of it makes soul sound separate from consciousness . Like soul is something separate from consciousness which has its own memory imprints and personality called ego.
But what Leo has taught us that Soul /atman do not exist and is illusion. And their is no karmic debt. Everything is love and their is no judgement after death . Which contradicts religious teachings of buddhism and hinduism . Which advocate that their is karmic debt attached to each soul and after a person die they get judged and their next life conditions are based upon their karma. So isnt it all means there is judgement after we die?

 

15 hours ago, Ananta said:

The Atma/Atman is no other then Brahman (It's same-same!), it's just that the Atma/Atman is what they call the portion of Brahman that is within the subtle and gross body. So, some call it  the soul or the true Self. Which some think to mean "self " with a small "s".

 

Again as per your explanation soul which is portion of brahman is within subtle and gross body . This implies consciousness and subtle and gross body are completely separate . 
Who is generating the gross body and subtle body?

 

[machiavelli]

15 hours ago, Shin said:

Why is that important if souls exist ?

Why do you need someone to tell you if they exist or not ?

Assuming they do exist, so what ?

Assuming they don't exist, so what ?

Why do you need to know ?

@Shin It is important because several important questions is left unanswered because of it.
Is there a karmic debt attached to souls?
If karma is true than it means there is judgement after we die.
Because conditions in which we will born in next life depends on our karma.
 

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Shin It is important because several important questions is left unanswered because of it.
Is there a karmic debt attached to souls?
If karma is true than it means there is judgement after we die.
Because conditions in which we will born in next life depends on our karma.
 

Only if you believe in those things.

Reincarnation is not understood by most Buddhists.

Reincarnation is not a specific individual soul reincarnating, it's God incarnating in an another experience, which there is an infinite number of.

And by that it also means you right now as God identifying again (reincarnating) every moment with Machiavelli.

That's a materialistic view you have on reincarnation, there is no individual soul to reincarnate in anything, because those only exist if you believe in them.

So yes it's important, as long as you hold it as important.

Do you want those ideas to be important ? 

Seems like limiting your capacity to be happy and fully yourself in your life from my point of view.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Shin

[Ananta]

7 hours ago, machiavelli said:

His explanation of it makes soul sound separate from consciousness

There are different orders of reality and yes, subtle-body is the inner transmigrating "apparent" body if you will, according to Vedanta.

From one order of reality every thing is all consciousness, end of story, we can all hang up our spiritual hats, boom...done!

But, from another order of reality we have the "apparent" world with people, animals, maybe an afterlife and reincarnation! ?

...and all of it, no matter how you think it sounds is nothing but consciousness really, as it is made of consciousness, within and permeated by consciousness, but Vedanta picks it all apart for discrimination purposes. 

I was pointing you to the correct terminology, according to Advaita Vedanta. If you want to explore it, so be it, if not, that's fine too.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Ananta

[machiavelli]

@Ananta But how can I verify whether anything is true or not? Leo says soul doesnt exist only consciousness exist. He even explained in his psychedelic trip how consciousness is constructing his body . 
But when I read about vedanta and all those religious stuff they never say consciousness is same as soul/ atman. 

Who is imagining the body ? Is it soul or consciousness? 

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Ananta But how can I verify whether anything is true or not? Leo says soul doesnt exist only consciousness exist. He even explained in his psychedelic trip how consciousness is constructing his body . 
But when I read about vedanta and all those religious stuff they never say consciousness is same as soul/ atman. 

Who is imagining the body ? Is it soul or consciousness? 

Listen from 42:25-45:05 minutes.

 

 

[machiavelli]

@Ananta According to him the soul is same as consciousness and body is made up of consciousness.  And he says that subtle body/soul that is jeevatama leave the body . But the body is already consciousness . Why is consciousness leaving consciousness? It doesnt make an sense or logic.

It is like he is making dualism here. 

 

[Ananta]

@machiavelli Perhaps you aren't able to understand what he's saying because you're confused, or you just don't agree or because you follow Leo's teachings (why not, it's his forum).

 I understand clearly what he's saying in the video, but that doesn't mean I can make you understand and no he's not creating dualism or being materialistic.

Either way, it's not an imperative topic. Many go their whole life without resolving it for themselves. I would say do some more reading and/or contemplate if it's important to you. If not, move on to another topic. Good luck with it.

?

[machiavelli]

@Ananta It would be better if you could ellaborate your views on it. I would love to listen your own belief on this.

 

[Ananta]

13 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Ananta It would be better if you could ellaborate your views on it. I would love to listen your own belief on this.

 

I was introduced to and loosely "studied" Advaita Vedanta prior to even coming to this forum. My views line up with Vedanta views for the most part. It's not a popular view on this forum. So, I try to not to talk about Vedanta specifics too much here. I'm done with debating others for the most part and I'm not a good teacher, so I stopped trying.

Swami sarvapriyananda is an excellent tool for ppl interested in Vedanta and are exploring, but James Swartz is the guy to truly learn it the best from. He has an entire free series on youtube. He covers all the basics in that series and is very thorough.