how leo could have explained this....

[charlie cho]

Leo was trying to explain the illusory nature of the physical world in which we see.... (I mean for 99% of us who aren't enlightened) 

Charlie did not seem to get it nor his friend. 

I often had these conversations with people and they usually got it right away. Of course many would try to say I'm wrong, but they would admit the way I said was very convincing even though they could not trust me.

What I say:

1. We have 5 senses that records the world. The camera which is the eye, the microphone which is the ear, and so on with the nose, taste, and touch. At this very second we may record existence. However, in 5 seconds later, this moment will just become a picture, a simple recording, a simple png. file in our heads. In another sense, we have an mp4 file in our heads because we don't only take pictures, we can record movies with our eyes. The sounds we hear right now 5 seconds later will simply be an excerpt, an mp3 file in our heads. Same goes with smell, touch, and taste. Do you think this png. file, this mp3 file, this mp4 file is different from the world you are experiencing now? The very substance of this world in which you experience has no difference between the substance that constitutes the png. file, the mp4 file, the mp 3 file that is in your head. 

2. Why you may ask? Well, there was one time when I slept and I had a dream. I was dreaming that I was a butterfly. I was flying and having a jolly good time sitting on flowers, a wonderful dream. Then I woke up. I screamed. I wondered whether I was the butterfly that was dreaming that I was Charlie, or was I Charlie that was dreaming that I was a butterfly. I could not distinguish what was true. Am I a butterfly? Actually this is what Chuang Tzu had been thinking about 2500 years ago. I stole the story from him. Do you understand? When you have sex with someone in a dream. When a person shoots you on the foot with a gun in a dream. You feel the sensations. You also feel the emotions too. You feel the pain in the dream. Likewise, if I were to hit you in the mouth, you will feel it. What is the difference between that dream and this? 

3.Have you ever heard of amputees having phantom pains? For example, he or she may have cut his leg, but they feel as if they foot hurts after, even when they don't have a foot! It is called a phantom pain because they know they don't have a foot, but they feel as if they have a foot. Consciously, they know they don't have a foot, but their brains have recorded their bodies since childhood and have conditioned itself to believe the body to exist. In other words, they have recorded so much png. files of their bodies that even when the body has vanished, those png. files has become the brain's crutch into understanding existence. Those png. files, mp3 files, mp4 files has become an attachment to the brain and become the main source of identification of existence. So amputees believe in their png. files more than reality! We all have this in our bodies. This is an example of "imagining things that don't exist" in spirituality. 

4. Skitzophrenic patients see things that don't exist in the real world. They believe in their imaginary friend, their imagined object because they could not distinguish the difference between that with the other objects that actually "exist". But suppose why they have a hard time distinguishing them. Imagine a cup just next to your computer. Imagine it so vividly that it may be real. Can you imagine yourself actually believing in the cup? They cannot distinguish it because their imagination has become so vivid, so strong, their desire to avoid the world, or their desire for something has become so strong (both objectives are the same) they cannot distinguish the difference between their mother and his imaginary friend. In essence, the world in which we see is imaginary.

So what will become of physical reality if we destroy these imaginary objects!? 

I will not say much but only this. Tesla had once said one must look at nature not with materialism but with energetic awareness. Look at the world in terms of energy. Now, this imaginary way of looking at things makes things physical, makes things materialistic. Once the images (png. files) are gone, once the sounds (mp3 files) are gone, we will see energy. We will hear not sounds, but vibrations. 

[RMQualtrough]

Oh just say this:

You know with 100% certainty that you are conscious, you do not know with 100% certainty that the apparent external world is truly real, it could be a dream, a simulation, brain in a vat etc.

Idealism is more logical because it proposes the 100% certainty (consciousness) is responsible for the <100% certainty. Materialism tries to propose that something less than 100% certain is responsible for the ONLY thing I can ever truly know exists.

...

And then ofc ask if they think they actually SEE the object in front of them, or if it is the brain projecting an image of an apparent external world.

Use dream logic a lot. Dreams are a great way to explain things to people as they are basically a microcosm of the exact thing we are trying to propose.

Etc.

Edited May 25, 2021 by RMQualtrough